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What's this ..... I come back from the weekend and there's no thread about the new BSG episode ?!?
Well, I just watched it, and holy frack, it's all kinds of awesome (as expected)
Spoilers ahoy
Interesting choice of focusing on the characters instead of the mission, resulted in quite an unorthodox feel to the whole episode, not bad though. All the really important scenes were dialogues and not action scenes, which shows once more that the show is driven by the characters and the choices they make, and not action scenes.
Not that the action scenes was bad, quite the contrary. We now know that the main guns on the battlestars are in fact used to shred baseships to pieces ...and boy that was quite a sight.
Now, why did Apollo not want to came back alive ? Because he thought Kara had carried out her mission and would have been shot by the Pegasus crew, or is it something else ?
Baltar and Number 6, confusing as always. Why did the one in his head try to stop him from telling the captured one the things he did ?
Also, they have brought back the newer music style (as discussed before), especially noticeable during the battle preparation scene and the attack run on the resurrection ship. Might not be for everyones tastes, but I liked it.
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I think Baltar might actually be insane.
And I'm disgusted that there wasn't even one hot, sexy, lesbian love scene with Cain and Starbuck.
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I think Baltar might actually be insane.
And I'm disgusted that there wasn't even one hot, sexy, lesbian love scene with Cain and Starbuck.
Cain's vagina is filled with liquid nitrogen.
Starbuck would freak out and cry for her ovaries. Oh ovaries, you were never of any use. Starbuck you domb broad.
That would be one of the best sex scenes in the realistically rare scene of "scifi sex".
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I think Baltar might actually be insane.
And I'm disgusted that there wasn't even one hot, sexy, lesbian love scene with Cain and Starbuck.
Cain's vagina is filled with liquid nitrogen.
Starbuck would freak out and cry for her ovaries. Oh ovaries, you were never of any use. Starbuck you domb broad.
That would be one of the best sex scenes in the realistically rare scene of "scifi sex".
Could you mail me a sample of whatever that s*** is you were smoking when you wrote that?
OT, it was a bloody good ep - having just downloaded it myself :nervous: - but I find myself wondering where Baltar could have possibly taken Gina.
Now, if the folks working on the BSG mod can get it looking half as good as the stuff seen in this ep, they shall be hailed as Gods...
(http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/4057/bsg10ta.jpg)
(http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/4418/bsg23gz.jpg)
(http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/3788/bsg31td.jpg)
:yes:
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Wait a minute - why didn't the Pegasus get power-downed during the Battle Of The Colonies?
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Mark VII pretty. :)
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Quoting me from Games-warden:
"The plot with Lee...I sort of got. He's moving away from Kara, definitely, but the talk with his father, learning that the President was behind it - I could just see that contributing to his loss of confidence in humanity. Here he is, thinking that Roslin is peaceful, helped her evade Adama when he put her under arrest - and suddenly she turns out just as bad, ordering assassination of Cain to maintain her power."
Or in other words it's got nothing to do with Kara, but moreso that Lee is suddenly disillusioned with both Roslin and Adama. He knows Adama will use violence to get what he wants, but didn't see Roslin as being the same.
At least that's my take.
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Wait a minute - why didn't the Pegasus get power-downed during the Battle Of The Colonies?
I assumed it was in dock, powered down for maintainance. This is a big assumption though as surely it would still need computer control of the life support system.
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IIRC, the virus was in the navigation software...it's possible (even likely, as life support would be high on the list of critical systems requiring survivablity) the life support is run by a totally seperate system.
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I wouldn't be too surprised if Cain had the same policy as Adama about computer networks. From a storytelling point of view it would add depth of meaning to Cain's character, as she would sort of be an alternate Adama, ie if he had gone through with arresting Roslin.
Remember the way Adama dissolved the tribune investigating the Chief? That was basically what Cain did, except in this case she skipped the formalities to prosecute rather than exonerate.
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Baltar and Number 6, confusing as always. Why did the one in his head try to stop him from telling the captured one the things he did?
You're not paying attention. Baltar didn't do those things, Six did. Or at least, told him she did.
Delightfully evil, isn't it? Take a story that clearly has great emotional significance to someone, then retell it to someone else who is, basically, the same person. Bam, guaranteed emotional "in" with that person.
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Bah, I was paying attention, I just couldn't write an eloquent sentence to express what I meant.
"the things he did" = the things he did tell the captured one, which in turn were told to him by the one in his head. ........see that was an ugly long phrase
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I think I'm gonna hafta watch all 3 episodes together, see if they mesh well. Artistically, they're all different from each other (first was music-happy, second was somewhat standard, but with a massive weight of B.A.D. hanging overhead, third was character-focused). Hunh.
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Anyone entertaining the idea that perhaps Pegasus, as Galactica, was let through?
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Possibleh. :drevil:
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Wait a minute - why didn't the Pegasus get power-downed during the Battle Of The Colonies?
From what I've heard the Pegasus was in spacedock with the main computer cores powered down already. I'm not sure if the details were ever given but I think one of two possibilities exist.
1) Because the computers were down and everything was in the process of a refit they may not have had time to install the new navigational computer software "patch"
2) Because the computers were down (and so was the network) they were spared and figured out what was going on in time to do a rollback. Sounds like Microsoft programmed this, not Baltar :D
Either way, this is all why the Viper Mark VIII without the exploits and computer networks installed and Pegasus were able to operate.
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(http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/4057/bsg10ta.jpg)
Resolution = teh winner.
(http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/images/a/ab/Ep212battle.jpg)
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Where'd you snag that, Setekh?
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Battlestar Wiki (http://www.battlestarwiki.org)
Article on Resurrection Ship (part 2) (http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php/Resurrection_Ship%2C_Part_II)
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Now if we only had a complete Pegasus mesh.....
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/WIP Gallery/CylonDoom2.jpg)
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:eek2:
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You know what the SCP needs? Debris chunks spewed from high-yield weapon impacts. The screenshot above, while amazing, just looks so sterile compared to the CGI shot.
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Agreed with Zylon really, but it's sort of amazing that the series screenshots is very close to the ingame one.
Thought a better starfield would help as well.
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Now if we only had a complete Pegasus mesh.....
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/staff_images/WIP Gallery/CylonDoom2.jpg)
You... I mean... meagahsahwa...
OMGWTFBBQTHATLOOKSFRAKKINGAWSOME
(p.s. totally requesting that be made into a wallpaper man)
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Take a look at the forums hosted on GameWarden Dough, there are some pretty special screenshots. :)
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So: A Cylon prisoner escapes, while under the watch of one Dr. Gaius Baltar and proceeds to the kill the highest ranking military official in what is assumed to be the remanant of the Colonial fleet...and no one asks any questions? Specifically, Pegasus' local goon squad doesn't try to get at whoever is within reach for revenge?
Actually, I think the episode rocked on many levels, it's just a few little things, but then again I always notice those. Like how Starbuck looked like she was going to have a stroke going in to kill Cain, even though she's supposed to be somewhat of a badass killer. Also, how neither Adama nor Tigh were smart enough to figure out that the armed men on the bridge might not have the best of intentions, and tried to disarm them. But that's only nitpicking. The whole thing with Apollo was awesome. And special props to the makers of the show for creating suspense after the fight, when it came time for the killing. It's rare that I'm actually on edge, but they pulled it off with flying colours.
As for the BSG-mod screenies: awesome, but like Zylon said, they look a bit sterile. I noticed that BSG's actualy CG sequences are mostly on a black background of stars, unlike StarTrek of Babylon 5 where they have intricate nebulas in each shot. Still, I can't fault the models or anything, which are great, but some "noise" in the form of stars or whatnot would go a long way.
edit: also, am I the only one who thinks that it was ingenious the way they got rid of Cain without destroying anyone else in the process, and effectively handed control over to someone much saner, so the show can go ahead without every episode being a Western showdown.
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Anyone entertaining the idea that perhaps Pegasus, as Galactica, was let through?
Way ahead of you. My official Conspiracy Guy (Icefire may know what I'm talking about) take is:
Obviously, the Cylons could take out Galactica at will. They knock 'em around a little to give them the appearance of being pursued. The Cylons, though their motives can't be known, need Galactica for something. Either they want to find Earth, for either religious reasons or to find the rest of mankind and wipe them out as well, and need Galactica to do it for them, or, and here's the more interesting version:
You know how Adama asks Boomer why Cylons hate humanity? And she answers that they are flawed, and maybe they don't deserve to survive. The Cylons are attacking mankind as a sort of trial-by-fire, to bring out the best in mankind, to make them worthy of survival. The Cylons aren't actually enemies, they are sort of like parents, trying to get humanity to realize it's full potential and rise from the ashes stronger than ever. Sort of like the Shadows did in B5.
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also, am I the only one who thinks that it was ingenious the way they got rid of Cain without destroying anyone else in the process, and effectively handed control over to someone much saner, so the show can go ahead without every episode being a Western showdown.
Fisk? Saner?! He's the Pegasus equivalent of Tigh in more ways than one (ie. possible alcoholic), and has been shown to be unable to take a lot of stress. Moreover, look at the baggage he's carrying, plainly visible when he describes the murder of those families at Cain's behest.
Basically, as the series progresses, Fisk is going to become increasingly... unstable...
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Well, saner than Cain. Or at least less ruthless. In any case, Adama outranks him now, so he's effectively in control. Just like Tigh, he may be a drunk, but he doesn't have the initiatve to stand up to Adama+Roslin's authoritah. Except I was sort of expecting the Pegasus's deck chief to kill Cain and hide out in the fleet, seeing as how his family was more or less murdered by Cain. Couldn't do it while it was only Pegasus, but now he had a place to run to. Oh well, something might yet come of it.
edit: also, he did release Helo and the chief, which shows that he's going to obey Adama's orders, even when it comes to things he disagress with. Ah, I haven't gotten this geeky in years.
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I just watched the first 3 minutes of "Pegasus" again, and Roslin is fine there. Seems to me that the big holiday break psycologically made them (the producers or whoever) think it was ok to have Roslin degraded so much in health by the end of the third episode. But when you watch the episodes back to back, it doesn't make any sense. They all take place within what, 2 days?
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It's entirely possible that Roslin was just acting - for the sake of keeping everyone's spirits up - and the strain of that plus the events of the episodes of 'Resurrection Ship' caused her downturn.
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It's exactly like they said-- she'll have good days and bad days.
I'm fascinated by the prospect of what's going to happen after she dies. Yeah, I'm assuming she will die. Pulling out some chicken**** "OMG she's saved!" plotline would go directly against Moore's style, and cheapen everything she's gone through.
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It's exactly like they said-- she'll have good days and bad days.
I'm fascinated by the prospect of what's going to happen after she dies. Yeah, I'm assuming she will die. Pulling out some chicken**** "OMG she's saved!" plotline would go directly against Moore's style, and cheapen everything she's gone through.
I've read one of the upcoming (US) episodes deals with a possible treatment made using stem-cells from Caprica-Boomers baby. Dunno if it actually works, of course; hopefully not, because the alternative is too cliche (as you said).
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She is going to die an incredible death!
Ps. check the Sci-Fi preview headlines for possible minor spoilers.
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Don't the prophecies say that they will find Earth before Roslin dies, or do they only say that she will set them on the path to Earth? After Roslin bites the dust, you're faced with the prospect of having Baltar take over the civilian administration, and he's clearly bat**** insane. Scary prospect. Either that, or they call elections again and Tom Zarek gets elected; in either case, things are bound to get interesting.
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Boomer for President!
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Billy will be president.
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Billy? Nah, he can't be President, he gets no respect (http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/bts/videoblog/video_11_320.html).
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Billy will be president.
Boxey!
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I've read one of the upcoming (US) episodes deals with a possible treatment made using stem-cells from Caprica-Boomers baby. Dunno if it actually works, of course; hopefully not, because the alternative is too cliche (as you said).
It works, at least initially; Roslin has to survive at least till the end of the season, where she'll be dealing with the rising Cylon-peace movement.
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They've already said a bunch of times that the 'great leader' will die before reaching Earth.
Assuming the prophecy is about her, of course. I still think it applies to Adama though.
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Adama... die!?... HERESY!
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More specifically, they said that the one that shall lead them to Earth, shall die before they get there. Specific, not a "great leader," IIRC.
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Interesting.
Could be almost anybody.
Of course you could make a very good argument for Starbuck being 'the one'...
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They've already said a bunch of times that the 'great leader' will die before reaching Earth.
Assuming the prophecy is about her, of course. I still think it applies to Adama though.
Oh that's just stupid. Adama IS the new BSG. Killing him would be like Star Trek: TNG killing off Picard.
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No killing of the badarse pilot. :p
I'm not the only one seeing a Moses parallel here, am I?
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They've already said a bunch of times that the 'great leader' will die before reaching Earth.
Assuming the prophecy is about her, of course. I still think it applies to Adama though.
Oh that's just stupid. Adama IS the new BSG. Killing him would be like Star Trek: TNG killing off Picard.
Well, you did want to avoid cliche, didn't you?
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There's "avoiding cliches" and there's "commercial suicide".
I highly recommend the BSG podcasts. I hardly ever listen to commentary tracks, but the BSG ones are really interesting. Mr. Moore is a smart guy.
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I knew it! I knew they weren't going to kill off President Roslin! w00t w00t!
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Personally they shouldn't have even needed to have any of it as a plot device.
I would have used this episode to establish that Rosalin is starting to decline, the debate on Boomer's baby starts, and we start seeing Gina convincing people to be pro-Cylon. (no actual movement yet, but the beginnings)
It seemed all a bit too rushed and cliched.
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Would've made for a pretty boring ep tho.
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I just watched the first 3 minutes of "Pegasus" again, and Roslin is fine there. Seems to me that the big holiday break psycologically made them (the producers or whoever) think it was ok to have Roslin degraded so much in health by the end of the third episode. But when you watch the episodes back to back, it doesn't make any sense. They all take place within what, 2 days?
ooh, cancer can degrade a person very quickly actually. In a matter of days even.
But regardless, there are bound to be plotholes. When haven't there been plotholes? It would of course be nicers if there weren't any
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Ugh. Well, put this down as the first episode that I'm actually disappointed in.
Human/Cylon blood just happens to cure cancer! Yay!
Some humans are so blisteringly stupid as to think that the Cylons want peace! Even though they already had it but killed billions of us anyway! Yay!
Nuclear warheads aren't just deadly, they're shiny and pretty too! And Colonials use the exact same symbol for radiation as we do! Whee!
Gahhh...
[sandy]Spoiler tags are there for a reason. Use them, damnit - I had to add them manually, thereby ruining at least one of the surprises of this fracking episode.[/sandy]
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Their entire society is taken as a 'suspension of disbelief' thing.
They all seems to speak English, the women wear make up, their ships have cockpits with open views, they wear ties, they have booze, the British guy is the smartest, there's a clear division of blacks and whites (which is probably the largest 'WTF' thing). All of these things are true on Earth and shouldn't necessarily be true in the Colonies - but they are.
Suck it up.
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Dude, only about half of that list made sense. "They have booze"? "Cockpits have open views"? What the hell? Those aren't cultural things, those are universal.
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Not really.
We only stumbled onto alcohol. And it's entirely possible that with different plants on their worlds they'd've come up with different intoxicants. Booze still, but not necessarily alcohol.
And open-view cockpits are due simply to our trust in our senses over our technology - which is pretty much a cultural thing. And their technology is alot more advanced than ours - thus they'd have more trust in it....well, until the first time the Cylons attacked anyways.
That's actually one of the things I like about the Wraith Darts on Atlantis. The Wraith evolved from cave-dwelling bugs so their cockpits turn into little cocoons that force the pilot to rely entirely on the HUD.
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This show is not science fiction for its own sake; it's using science fiction for allegorical purposes, so the principle of poetic license comes into play. The plausibility of certain details is stretched a bit in order to create a universe that conveys what they want it to convey. This is why the show is a real work of art and not a vapid techno-thriller.
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We only stumbled onto alcohol.
Yes, practically every civilization on the face of the Earth "stumbled" onto alcohol.
The people in BSG are human. They have a human metabolism. Positing that they would have some form of recreational fermented beverage is not even a tiny little stretch.
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Some of that can be explained by the whole thirteen colonies thing.
Like the beer. :p
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Plus a lot of the stuff to do with society and ergonomic design can be said to be due to basic human design; like having clear cockpits because our eyes are our primary method of sensory information, black-white seperation as a result of human mechanisms of attraction (ala people being attracted to similar facial structures to their own) and reactions to visual difference, not replacing human senses with technology for reasons of common sense (i.e. fighting an enemy specialising in technology and who freely uses nukes - and hence emp pulses) and because they're (senses) are inherently more reliable. Etc.
Not to mention that a lot of the similarities to modern society in Galactica are deliberate, to place a particular cultural refence for use in the storyline. And AFAIK we don't know the actual origins of humanity in BSG, so we don't know if or when the 'break' point with human society (on Earth) would be. Plus you have to try and factor in how much human physiology factors into society and it's development; there's no point in assuming that human development would be entirely different on another planet, given that human nature is pretty much constant and humans would gravitate towards living in as similar as possible an environment as the one they left, i.e. Earth.
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I thought they originated from Kobol ? Earth is called the 13th colony after all.
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I thought they originated from Kobol ? Earth is called the 13th colony after all.
Yeah, but that doesn't preclude them travelling to Earth from Kobol. For one thing, they're described as, IIRC, living with the 'Gods' in Kobol; which could be whoever took them there (note; the perception of the Lords of Kobol or whatever they're called would be really only as Gods if it was a primitive earth society; Greek being the obvious one). Because, how would they know where Earth was, and why would they leave to there (it seems to be pretty bloody distant from the other colonies) unless it had some meaning to them?
Albeit I hope to hell that they don't pull a Galactica 1980 and have it as modern day earth. IMO that would be utter pish.
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I'm sure they will.
However, having Earth as a very technologically advanced society that looks at the Cylons and Colonials as a joint threat would be fun.
Adama: "We've found Earth!"
Cylons: "They found Earth for us, humanity is now doomed!"
*Earth ships open fire and wipe out half of the Colonials before Galactica jumps out. Earth proceeds to trace the Cylon communications and vaporizes the Cylon homeworld with a planet killer.*
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Albeit I hope to hell that they don't pull a Galactica 1980 and have it as modern day earth. IMO that would be utter pish.
Oh, that was hilarious. "The soldiers of the Galactica have to stop the evils of the present day... frakking Nazis!"
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Albeit I hope to hell that they don't pull a Galactica 1980 and have it as modern day earth. IMO that would be utter pish.
Plus we'd be, well, pretty ****ed.
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Would be funny if it was the 1800s or somesuch.
Or they arrive, only to find that earth has been destroyed, and travel back in time to save it. :p
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Would be funny if it was the 1800s or somesuch.
Or they arrive, only to find that earth has been destroyed, and travel back in time to save it. :p
Yeah and WHALES
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Or they meet General Jack O'Neill:
Static-y message: "We're the Colonial Fleet, only 44,598 of us are left. The Cylons are hunting us down... you're our only hope..."
*blink blink*
O'Neill: "This concerns me... how?"
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I thought they originated from Kobol ? Earth is called the 13th colony after all.
myth, legend?
Assuming a long enough time has passed between leaving Kobol and BSG there's no reason not to assume that most of it is myth and Kobol was originally colonised from Earth anda number of people, after the scrap there, decided to return to Earth again.
Besides, claiming Kobol as the original homeworld of humanity would fly in the face of scientific knowledge.
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I thought they originated from Kobol ? Earth is called the 13th colony after all.
myth, legend?
Assuming a long enough time has passed between leaving Kobol and BSG there's no reason not to assume that most of it is myth and Kobol was originally colonised from Earth anda number of people, after the scrap there, decided to return to Earth again.
Besides, claiming Kobol as the original homeworld of humanity would fly in the face of scientific knowledge.
I doubt scientific knowlegde is a concern in a TV world of ftl drive and xenophobic toasters.
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Then you don't know much about writing good sci-fi.
It's fine to make up stuff like FTL drives and AIs and all that because they don't specifically contradict known scientific facts (mostly because they wisely don't even try to explain how they work). But it's established scientific FACT that humans originated on Earth, and since Earth is such a central part of the BSG mythology, they can't just make up a racial origin story as if "Earth" was some fictional planet.
Seems pretty straightforward to me-- at some point in the future, humans colonized Kobol from Earth. Some disaster (be it technological, environmental, or even cultural) happpened on Kobol that forced a mini-diaspora, and destroyed most of their historical records.
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Then you don't know much about writing good sci-fi.
You miss the point; storyline beats science, as it should in a hypothesised past/present/future very far away with a completely open universe and backstory. All fiction is the suspension of disbelief, after all, and the only question should be what parts of reality you need to include in order to sell that story.
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So if the humans (and yes, they are HUMANS) in BSG drank acid and pissed laser beams, you wouldn't have a problem with that?
I repeat, the BSG universe is not completely hypothesised. It incorporates EARTH. Very specifically, by name. Their culture includes specific nontrivial details from Earth culture, like the naming of their colonies after the signs of the zodiac. There can't be any logical doubt that the Earth of BSG legend is the planet we're sitting on right now.
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So if the humans (and yes, they are HUMANS) in BSG drank acid and pissed laser beams, you wouldn't have a problem with that?
Not all discrepancies between fiction and reality are equally silly. Those are silly.
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So is disregarding millions of years of fossil record.
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Well, I wouldn't expect them to write something like that into the show. I think everyone's jumping ahead a few steps here.
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I'm really with Zylon, alternatives to the idea that it's Earth>Kobol>Earth haven't even occured to me.
The question is really though what the year is when they come back to Earth? Considering the technical advancments, since we had to travel to Kobol once... 2500ish perhaps? A bit more, a bit less?
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So if the humans (and yes, they are HUMANS) in BSG drank acid and pissed laser beams, you wouldn't have a problem with that?
That would depend on how much sense it held within the value of the storyline. As Ford pointed out, that sort of example is particularly nonsensical as it is formulated to make no sense and have no perceivable value to a storyline. Anyways, at that point they wouldn't be humans, would they? Unless they called themselves humans, in which case that'd be not be corresponding to our biological definition of human but that of the storylines' universe (I dunno, like the Culture novels having humans able to change sex at will and soforth, justified by dint of their far future setting).
I repeat, the BSG universe is not completely hypothesised. It incorporates EARTH. Very specifically, by name. Their culture includes specific nontrivial details from Earth culture, like the naming of their colonies after the signs of the zodiac. There can't be any logical doubt that the Earth of BSG legend is the planet we're sitting on right now.
Having a planet named Earth, is seperate from having it as the original home of humanity; for one thing, AFAIK the BSG mythology so far states it as being simply a planet colonised by people from Kobol 2000 years ago.
Not to mention the use of signs of the Zodiac, Greek gods, etc has a symbolical as well as literal meaning. Like with ties; or do you think it'd be 'scientifically realistic' to expect fashion, in at least 2000 years time, had either retained the likes of ties, suits, etc (left modern/post modern earth), or convergently developed them (leaving Earth at a time when the Greek gods were still worshipped)?
This is not to say that Earth as a homeworld is the least likely explanation, etc, but to point out that the most important aspect is the dramatic one and the value an individual aspect has for the storyline; does it mean more to the viewer to reference the Arrow of Apollo, or the Arrow of Randomogodbloke? Earth has an inherent meaning as a homeworld, and the signs of the Zodiac have both celestical recognition value, and also a (tenuous?) connection to the foretelling/prophecy aspects of the storyline. If the show makes Earth have some other meaning than original evolutionary home of humans, I'm happy so long as it makes sense within the story. Golden rule of storytelling.
And all that from a jokey throwaway comment about toasters. Phew.
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I'm really with Zylon, alternatives to the idea that it's Earth>Kobol>Earth haven't even occured to me.
The question is really though what the year is when they come back to Earth? Considering the technical advancments, since we had to travel to Kobol once... 2500ish perhaps? A bit more, a bit less?
Much more. Indications were that Kobol had been abandoned for quite some time.
And of course there's the whole cyclic aspect to the BSG mythos. If "all of this has happened before, all of this will happen again" is to be any indication, the chain of events leading back to wherever Humanity originated is probably much longer than a simple explanation would allow.
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Plus we'd be, well, pretty ****ed.
I take it back, actually. Nukes are apparently the be-all and end-all still...and we have plenty of nukes about.
Cylon Armada meet US nuclear arsenal.
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So if the humans (and yes, they are HUMANS) in BSG drank acid and pissed laser beams, you wouldn't have a problem with that?
That would depend on how much sense it held within the value of the storyline. As Ford pointed out, that sort of example is particularly nonsensical as it is formulated to make no sense and have no perceivable value to a storyline. Anyways, at that point they wouldn't be humans, would they?
Which was exactly my point. The people in BSG are humans. Humans evolved here, on Earth.
Ever noticed how even the laziest science fiction no longer has canals on Mars or Amazon women on the Moon? That's because even the common guy on the street now knows that those planets are barren wastelands. Older stories could get away with that sort of stuff because people at the time didn't know any better. That's a key component of good fiction-- to build verisimilitude, you don't contradict what the reader knows to be factually true.
This is why BSG can't have humanity originating off Earth any more than a contemporary fiction author could have the Thames running through Egypt.
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Which was exactly my point. The people in BSG are humans. Humans evolved here, on Earth.
Ever noticed how even the laziest science fiction no longer has canals on Mars or Amazon women on the Moon? That's because even the common guy on the street now knows that those planets are barren wastelands. Older stories could get away with that sort of stuff because people at the time didn't know any better. That's a key component of good fiction-- to build verisimilitude, you don't contradict what the reader knows to be factually true.
This is why BSG can't have humanity originating off Earth any more than a contemporary fiction author could have the Thames running through Egypt.
Why did you ignore the second part of my post, which was written to address this? I mean, BSG has Humvees and real-world assault rifles, so we know the writers can use points of reference.
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Because props aren't part of the plot.
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Because props aren't part of the plot.
Of course they are; they're part of the setting and hence convey aspects of the background story or the emotion (intended) of a scene or said setting; even if just to convey a sense of familiarity to heighten the impact of story events.
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Good sci fi is written so that it can be plausible; it's depicting the author's vision of what may happen in the future; so if you have a human who shoots laser beams out of his eyes and farts ****-fueled nukes, you better have a damn good reason for it.
You can't write sci-fi and just go "Oh, well it's sci fi, so I can make ANYTHING happen!"; even Star Trek tried to quantify what it did by using a bunch of complex-sounding techonbabble.
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Good sci fi is written so that it can be plausible; it's depicting the author's vision of what may happen in the future; so if you have a human who shoots laser beams out of his eyes and farts ****-fueled nukes, you better have a damn good reason for it.
You can't write sci-fi and just go "Oh, well it's sci fi, so I can make ANYTHING happen!"; even Star Trek tried to quantify what it did by using a bunch of complex-sounding techonbabble.
Plausible/believable is important, yes, but is an elastic term that is defined by the requirements of the storyline and setting (just look at fantasy books). In the case of BSG, specifically, what is plausible within the universe can go in a multitude of ways; one way (not that this is what I'd say is the most likely or a way I'd expect to be taken) would be if the prophecies & history referred to could be taken literally, so you'd have beings who were close to being or actual gods living in Kobol alongside humans; in which case a lot of stuff would become more plausible. Likewise, if it was found to be not literally true, certain things that might happen based on the prophecy, etc, would become more implausible. With, for example, the date of BSG being unknown, it raises a lot of issues as to what is the most plausible connection to Earth, particularly Earth as we know it, is.
If the writers find some better way to tell the story of going to Earth than making it the origin of humanity and hence it's (our?) journey to Kobol in the first place, then I'll judge that based on how well that part of the story is told and written. Yes, it will likely be a more difficult way to go based on BSGs fairly 'solid' ground; that's why I don't think that route would be taken, and that's why my personal preferred option would still be the Earth-as-origin storyline. But until we are given further information about Earth and the history of humanity as it is in BSG, then it's impossible to really judge which options have been closed or opened.
Assuming they ever reach Earth to answer the question, of course.
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The best science fiction does not make simply predicting the future its primary goal. Science fiction at its best is a literary device.
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I've seen complaints about BsG using humvees and "earth-made" weapons, but people need to understand that there isn't an unlimited amount of money.
and as to the year on the show and how it equates to earth, in the original series when they reached earth it was present-day.
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I've seen complaints about BsG using humvees and "earth-made" weapons, but people need to understand that there isn't an unlimited amount of money.
and as to the year on the show and how it equates to earth, in the original series when they reached earth it was present-day.
Yeah, and that was somewhat of a disaster, wasn't it?
The Humvee, etc, thing to be honest doesn't bother me. It's a bit odd, granted, but you can probably put it down to convergent design if you really need to rationalise it. Plus it's nice to have a sci-fi show where everything isn't made of plastic.
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it could be worse... remember Dark Angel with the Aztek?
and yes, the last season of the original series was beyond pathetic. I hope they actually don't reach earth this time.
and the humvees/weapons aren't the only thing. The show will make things look similiar on purpose to show a connection between the colonies and earth. For instance, Colonial 1, the name itself is just like Air Force 1 (which is any plane the president is in, just like RL) and also the colors of the ship itself.
They play a card game that is almost exactly like poker, a basketball/football hybrid, etc.. there are a lot of similarities.
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it could be worse... remember Dark Angel with the Aztek?
and yes, the last season of the original series was beyond pathetic. I hope they actually don't reach earth this time.
and the humvees/weapons aren't the only thing. The show will make things look similiar on purpose to show a connection between the colonies and earth. For instance, Colonial 1, the name itself is just like Air Force 1 (which is any plane the president is in, just like RL) and also the colors of the ship itself.
They play a card game that is almost exactly like poker, a basketball/football hybrid, etc.. there are a lot of similarities.
Question is whether it is a literal or emotive connection; like how Colonial 1s is modelled/designed after a modern day airliner, to make it distinctive amongst the fleet. Or like how the sidearm is (apparently) an exact replica of the gun Olmos had in Bladerunner.
Incidentally, here's a nice quote from Ron Moores blog;
"The question I would really like to see addressed is how to reconcile the underlying quest of Battlestar Galactica with actual scientific plausiability. The quest of Battlestar Galactica is to find Earth, the 13th Colony. However, it is a basic and well-substantiated tenet of science that human life here on Earth evolved slowly from a primate ancestor. Attempts to deny evolution based on the notion that human kind deserves a far more worthy origin than what evolution details, are a diservice to the pursuit of scientific truth and endeavors in our own world. There was always that reactionary sense to the original series, which drove it away from a secure standing as *science* fiction. How will the new series avoid this pitfall?"
I don't have a direct answer for this question yet. There are a couple of notions rolling around in my head as to how we reconcile the very real fact of evolution with the Galactica mythos, but I haven't decided which approach to take. However, it was a fundamental element of the orginal Galactica mythos that "Life here began out there..." and I decided early on that it was crucial to maintain it.
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One solution while keeping that would be the 'gods' seeding life on Earth and taking some humans to Kobol once they arose.
Then when the civilization collapses on Kobol, a group returns to Earth. (maybe they never made it back?)
It would be interesting to see the Iblis plot used, with Iblis as one of the old gods who is using the Cylons and monotheism as a way of getting back at the other members of his race. Of course the 'gods' could have some delusions of granduer ala Stargate which almost makes Iblis seem justified. (of course to the more rational people like Adama they see Iblis' construct of 'god' as just as nasty)
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One solution while keeping that would be the 'gods' seeding life on Earth and taking some humans to Kobol once they arose.
Then when the civilization collapses on Kobol, a group returns to Earth. (maybe they never made it back?)
It would be interesting to see the Iblis plot used, with Iblis as one of the old gods who is using the Cylons and monotheism as a way of getting back at the other members of his race. Of course the 'gods' could have some delusions of granduer ala Stargate which almost makes Iblis seem justified. (of course to the more rational people like Adama they see Iblis' construct of 'god' as just as nasty)
I think it's there to some degree already, isn't it? I'm sure there's something in the new mythos about one of the 13 lords/gods of Kobol declaring war on the others, prompting the exodus to the colonies (which in itself raises interesting issues; if the 12 not-at-Earth colonies identify themselves with individual gods - and I'm not sure whether they do, so this may be moot - does the 13th - i.e. Earth - identify with that 'fallen' god?). The idea of having one rebel god would tie in quite well, I suppose, with sparking the Cylon monotheism and resulting drive to convert/destroy colonial polytheism, although I'm not sure if I'd consider it a good story or not to make it that literal.
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On a slightly different note (and sorry to derai briefly). Can anyone in the UK who has seen the BSG adverts tell me what Darkness song is used during it? Or if it's not a Darkness song... who is it?
Cheers :p
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On a slightly different note (and sorry to derai briefly). Can anyone in the UK who has seen the BSG adverts tell me what Darkness song is used during it? Or if it's not a Darkness song... who is it?
Cheers :p
'Kamikaze', by PJ Harvey.
Apparently (http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Adverts/Question189961.html). Been wondering that myself for a while, never bothered checking until you mentioned. And it's only a 5 second google search to know, you lazy pumpkin!
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Cheers :D
In all honesty I did spend a good few minutes typing in a different combination of "lyrics", "space", "battlestar" and the like. I guess I'm just not very good at it!