Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: an0n on February 15, 2006, 07:50:23 am
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He said: "From later this year, the encryption landscape is going to change with the release of Microsoft Vista."
The system uses BitLocker Drive Encryption through a chip called TPM (Trusted Platform Module) in the computer's motherboard.
It is partly aimed at preventing people from downloading unlicensed films or media.
"This means that by default your hard disk is encrypted by using a key that you cannot physically get at...
"An unfortunate side effect from law enforcement is it would be technically fairly seriously difficult to dig encrypted material out of the system if it has been set up competently."
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but won't this mean a dedicated Vista-compatible motherboard is required to run Vista? One that's probably inherantly incompatible with Linux? And doesn't that constitute unfair business practices?
And won't it prevent you from switching hard-drives between computers?
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He said: "From later this year, the encryption landscape is going to change with the release of Microsoft Vista."
The system uses BitLocker Drive Encryption through a chip called TPM (Trusted Platform Module) in the computer's motherboard.
It is partly aimed at preventing people from downloading unlicensed films or media.
"This means that by default your hard disk is encrypted by using a key that you cannot physically get at...
"An unfortunate side effect from law enforcement is it would be technically fairly seriously difficult to dig encrypted material out of the system if it has been set up competently."
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but won't this mean a dedicated Vista-compatible motherboard is required to run Vista? One that's probably inherantly incompatible with Linux? And doesn't that constitute unfair business practices?
And won't it prevent you from switching hard-drives between computers?
Probably yes, yes, yes and yes.
I remember MS talking for a while about getting BIOS manufacturers to load parts of the windows kernel in the bootstrap motherboard code - it's like an unholy cancer of bloatware, spreading off the hard disk and infecting other parts of the PC.
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So, if I'm reading this correctly, this system is going to start screwing around with your hard drive in such a way that, not only can you not swap drives, but if you get a glitch in your boot sector, or want to try and fix a corrupted sector, you are going to be faced with a terminally uphill task?
Not only that, but this added encryption is going to slow down disc access times, which is already one of the major stumbling blocks to computer speed, AND require a Vista MBoard.
Way to destroy a product before it's even released!
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I cant see any reason to "upgrade"
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This is insanity.
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dammit, those damn trusted computing bastards
why wont they realize that maybe, its just wrong to try and control what each and every individual person can do with their computer. i hate them all
i will never, not for any reason, use vista if it requires me to have one of those evil chips on my motherboard
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Nobody will use Vista if that's implemented.
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Can it figure out if a mp3 is pirated or a legit backup copy of a CD ?
If Vista won't play pirated music and movies, MS will lose a good share of Windows users (not that that's a bad thing)
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I foresee a lot of contraversy over the fact that it is going to literally become a seperate Microsoft 'happy' world and then the rest of the world.
I shall stick with AMD and XP if that's the case, maybe even goto linux one day. It may well end up forcing developers to make a Vista version, and then a real world version.
To me, its just another plot to force individuals to buy Microsoft only products.
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What a surprise that Microsoft(The 'Soft is mother, the 'Soft is father. Obey the 'Soft) is yet scheming something evil thats only purpose is the increase the wealth and control of Microsoft(Trust the 'Soft).
It is partly aimed at preventing people from downloading unlicensed films or media.
I wonder who is going to decide whats proper media for us to watch, or "licensed" as they(The 'Soft is your friend) put it...
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And note that it says 'unlicensed' and not 'illegal'.
Meaning they're probably gonna try and force everyone to pay MS for license registration.
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I've never figured out why they call it 'Trusted Computing', the one element of it all that appears to be missing is 'Trust'.
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The tides of darkness approach once more...
I can just picture files growing in size because of all the security crap attached to them.
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It's worth noting that AMD is backing the whole palladium-esque hardware revolution.
In a world where piracy is outlawed only outlaws can be pirates... or something.
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Nobody will use Vista if that's implemented.
All the idiots buying their Pcs from Dell, Pc World, Dixons, etc will, because they'll get it preloaded and not know any better.
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Yup, plus all the PCs standing around in offices will be delivered with Vista, when it comes out.
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All the idiots buying their Pcs from Dell, Pc World, Dixons, etc will, because they'll get it preloaded and not know any better.
Meanwhile all us techy types will be unwilling or unable to help them because we'll be using unhindered hardware.
No more tech support for idiots! I'm free!
*runs around the garden naked*
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I think this may actually be related to HDCP given the reference to "films or media." It apparently needs a fully secure path through every computer component. It was recently learned that no current retail video cards are actually HDCP enabled, despite what the manufacturers have claimed for years now.
Anyway, I won't be bothering with Vista for a while. I have the corporate mentality when it comes to OS upgrades (didn't switch to XP until a few months after SP1 had come out) and have no particular desire to play Halo 2 or watch movies.
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Vista sucks... Halo 2 sucks.... MS Sucks...
They are so rich already.. Why do they need more money? Greedy idiots....
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an0n, do you have a link to this article? I'd like to show it to some people I know.
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Wow... that settles it. I guess I'll be staying XP native for quite a while longer.
I don't suppose anyone knows... lets say this happens: You download a movie. You write the movie to a DVD as an .avi file. You copy/paste it from that DVD onto another system. Correct me if I'm wrong but is the actually .avi itself now encrypted as it enters your drive, or is it unaffected as it's technically seperate data? (I'm having a bit of trouble seeing how the whole thing works together).
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Vista sucks... Halo 2 sucks.... MS Sucks...
They are so rich already.. Why do they need more money? Greedy idiots....
The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. :nod:
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I don't know why you people post threads like this.
We all know it's just a load of crap and you'll all upgrade just like the bunch of obedient Microsoft-*****es that you are.
I remember before XP came out - Everyone was like, "Activation? **** that! If they implement that **** I'm gonna boycott them and use Linux!"
Yeah. That happened.
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I don't know why you people post threads like this.
We all know it's just a load of crap and you'll all upgrade just like the bunch of obedient Microsoft-*****es that you are.
I remember before XP came out - Everyone was like, "Activation? **** that! If they implement that **** I'm gonna boycott them and use Linux!"
Yeah. That happened.
If you also paid any attention at all to what happened to the activation thing you'd know that it was cracked pretty soon after XP came out.
The thing with Vista is another matter entirely.. if it's correct that you have to invest in a new motherboard just to upgrade the OS, (let alone paying for the OS itself) it will rather quickly become expensive.
Then there is the matter of the encryption and the licencing thing mentioned above.
I don't want to be told what I can and what I cannot keep on my harddrive, do you?
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I reformat my computer every 30 days because I refuse to activate.
Link To Article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4713018.stm
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Activation != buy special motherboard
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And apparently, there were corporate versions of XP Pro going around the Torrent sites, which didn't require activation, before XP Home had been released iirc.
Besides, activation is one thing, requiring the user to upgrade their motherboard in order to use an OS is a whole other story, it means that every single computer in the world at this moment is Vista incompatible.
It's basically Microsoft taking it's attempt to 'wipe the slate clean' too far, by meaning that only computers made from 'This point onwards' can use Vista. It is a play for market control that ostracises every computer user in the world for the sake of Monopoly.
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Vista sucks... Halo 2 sucks.... MS Sucks...
They are so rich already.. Why do they need more money? Greedy idiots....
The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. :nod:
Too bad the love of money is also the root of modern western capitalistic society.
Greed is something very human. It's actually more than that, it's almost universal and it's not hard to figure out why.
This will or will not be implemented and if it is then it's going to be tough **** for us.
New games, applications, whatever? AW HELL NAW UR STUCK IN TETRIS AND UWE BOLL MOVIES BWAAHHAHAHAHHHAHAAA
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Wow... that settles it. I guess I'll be staying XP native for quite a while longer.
I don't suppose anyone knows... lets say this happens: You download a movie. You write the movie to a DVD as an .avi file. You copy/paste it from that DVD onto another system. Correct me if I'm wrong but is the actually .avi itself now encrypted as it enters your drive, or is it unaffected as it's technically seperate data? (I'm having a bit of trouble seeing how the whole thing works together).
No no. You download a movie. Vista alerts the FBI. You are arrested because you are a terrorist.
Edit:
The system, part of what is called "trusted computing" mechanisms, is designed to stop malicious programs being installed surreptitiously on computers.
Joe Average will believe this BS and be happy that his computer is "safe"
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HOLY CRAP ITS STARTING! MICROSOFT IS TAKING OVER! WE WILL ALL BE TURNED INTO SLAVES!
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No no. You download a movie. Vista alerts the FBI. You are arrested because you are a terrorist.
A 'subversive'.
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Ah.. so that is how it works.
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Wait a minute, I found another article. The chip that will be on the mother boards just logs into bitlocker automatically. If you don't have that chip then you can just type the key in or use a usb drive. And it says bitlocker lets YOU encrypt the hard drive. We really need to start doing more research before jumping to conclusions. Please ignore my earlier post. :D
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,124512,00.asp
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Wow... that settles it. I guess I'll be staying XP native for quite a while longer.
I don't suppose anyone knows... lets say this happens: You download a movie. You write the movie to a DVD as an .avi file. You copy/paste it from that DVD onto another system. Correct me if I'm wrong but is the actually .avi itself now encrypted as it enters your drive, or is it unaffected as it's technically seperate data? (I'm having a bit of trouble seeing how the whole thing works together).
No no. You download a movie. Vista alerts the FBI. You are arrested because you are a terrorist.
Or in my case, "Don't buy Vista, don't download movie, get arrested under the DMCAEUCDWTFBBQ" anyway ;)
Oooh, but wait... does that mean if the FBI crack your hard disk to try and find evidence, that YOU can use the DMCA against them?! (DMCA protects copyrighted works, and EVERYTHING YOU MAKE is automatically copyrighted, ergo... bwhaha! :drevil: )
The system, part of what is called "trusted computing" mechanisms, is designed to stop malicious programs being installed surreptitiously on computers.
Joe Average will believe this BS and be happy that his computer is "safe"
*tries to load FerriumSCP v9.87*
"FerriumSCP v9.87 not signed by Microsoft - Not recognised as a Trusted Program, possibly malicious, deleting..."
"WHAT? NO! STOP! ABORT!"
"Sorry Dave, I can't do that. You do not have a Paladium-TPM001 module implanted in your Brain and are an Untrusted platform. Untrusted Platform possibly malicious. Initialising sanitation beams..."
"AII! IT STINGS AND BURNS!"
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Hmm. I have a hard time seeing this one fly.
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I reformat my computer every 30 days because I refuse to activate.
Yeah, sounds like something I'll be doing.
Nifty that the XP builds these days have dates next to them, helps alot with the upgrades.
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And apparently, there were corporate versions of XP Pro going around the Torrent sites, which didn't require activation, before XP Home had been released iirc.
Indeed. My version was like that. Unfortunately, M$ caught on and has since denied me access to SP2. And short of slipstreaming an installation, I don't see any way around it.
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We really need to start doing more research before jumping to conclusions.
But it's so much more fun to play the martyr!
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http://www.toastytech.com/
All the anti ms stuff you may need.
But in all honesty, I don't see this one flying either, although, with MS there is always the possibility of some really idiotic business practices working.
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Google OS FTW. :p
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Google OS FTW. :p
i hope they really make one, beacuse google seems to be th eonly companty that can give MS som competition
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and google doesnt seem to be run by evil or stupid people, but by intelligent people, judging by the cool stuff that they keep coming up with
i would probably use an OS by them as an alternative to vista
of course, only if i could play my games on it
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The only real thing stopping me from using a linux build is that I cannot use 3ds max, or sketchbook pro on it. Everything else I can get used to.
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My worries with a GoogleOS is that it would probably:
+ Be in permenant beta
+ Constantly catalogue all your stuff
+ Have a totally flat filesystem ("Don't organise your stuff, SEARCH for it!" *shudder*)
+ Have AdSense
;)
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I reformat my computer every 30 days because I refuse to activate.
Link To Article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4713018.stm
why reformat it when u can just crack it :D
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Exactly. :yes:
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And apparently, there were corporate versions of XP Pro going around the Torrent sites, which didn't require activation, before XP Home had been released iirc.
Indeed. My version was like that. Unfortunately, M$ caught on and has since denied me access to SP2. And short of slipstreaming an installation, I don't see any way around it.
SP2 will just frak up your computer. Mine used to be able to hand things like playing Starcraft and Winamp at the same time, but not anymore thanks to Service Pack 2.
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And apparently, there were corporate versions of XP Pro going around the Torrent sites, which didn't require activation, before XP Home had been released iirc.
Indeed. My version was like that. Unfortunately, M$ caught on and has since denied me access to SP2. And short of slipstreaming an installation, I don't see any way around it.
SP2 will just frak up your computer. Mine used to be able to hand things like playing Starcraft and Winamp at the same time, but not anymore thanks to Service Pack 2.
Well, I am without now, but when I was wanting to use it on campus I wouldn't have been able to... you need SP2 to get online here.
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It seems you also need SP2 for dual cores to work properly. That's one of the main reasons why I'm hesitant to buy one.
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I think it's a generalisation to say that SP2 screws up computers so badly. I installed and ran it without any problems before or since. So there are at least some systems out there that can still cope.
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I sometimes wonder how much of this 'You need Service Pack X to use new fangled gadget Y' is really just another way of saying 'We've got more dodgy ID's we want to check using windows update on your computer'.
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I think it's a generalisation to say that SP2 screws up computers so badly. I installed and ran it without any problems before or since. So there are at least some systems out there that can still cope.
my runs fine with SP2.. Every computer that I've put it on works fine with it (about 10 or 15 of them)...
why reformat it when u can just crack it :D
Wait! You can crack windows XP Activation? OH PLEASE TELL ME HOW!!!!
I would def. buy google's OS, as long as they dont bloat it up with their stuff....
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my runs fine with SP2.. Every computer that I've put it on works fine with it (about 10 or 15 of them)...
MS hurt the acceptance of SP2 by releasing some VERY bad release candidates in the months leading up to the official rollout. Those were the ones that would make applications not work (one of them broke Windows Update, IIRC) and the service pack hasn't cleared the bad impression those RCs left yet. SP2 is, more or less, stable with just about everything you run under it or run it on. There are a few (minor) exceptions, but overall it hurts relatively little.
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I can't see how SP2 could stop Starcraft running alongside any other app. I've had no problems at all with SP2 on any of the thirty-or-so different systems I've installed it on. Maybe it was a dodgy beta you got?
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I think it's a generalisation to say that SP2 screws up computers so badly. I installed and ran it without any problems before or since. So there are at least some systems out there that can still cope.
I know for sure I am not the only one who has had these problems. I have heard many stories that are very similair to mine.....
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Would it help if a single one of you actually did a bit of research at all? You're all running around like chickens with your heads cut off.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/windowsvista/library/c61f2a12-8ae6-4957-b031-97b4d762cf31.mspx
The feature (BitLocker Drive Encryption) is OPTIONAL. You do not need to use it to run Vista.
What I find funny is the BBC skewing the facts in this affair. They make it sound like its impossible to disable.
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I can't see how SP2 could stop Starcraft running alongside any other app. I've had no problems at all with SP2 on any of the thirty-or-so different systems I've installed it on. Maybe it was a dodgy beta you got?
It doesn't stop it, but it does cause problems. Gameplay becomes sluggish and even a little choppy sometimes.
A beta? I doubt it. I used Windows Update to get it. It came straight from M$'$ own website.
The only reason I haven't gotten rid of it is because I have heard that if I uninstall it, it will cause other problems too.
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I can't see how SP2 could stop Starcraft running alongside any other app. I've had no problems at all with SP2 on any of the thirty-or-so different systems I've installed it on. Maybe it was a dodgy beta you got?
It doesn't stop it, but it does cause problems. Gameplay becomes sluggish and even a little choppy sometimes.
A beta? I doubt it. I used Windows Update to get it. It came straight from M$'$ own website.
The only reason I haven't gotten rid of it is because I have heard that if I uninstall it, it will cause other problems too.
I'm with Descenterace on this one... never had a problem and most CPU and GPU intensive programs run just the way the should (sometimes even better than what I estimate, although that cannot be atributed to the OS :p)
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Honestly, I'm sick and tired of people whinging about SP2. If you do it RIGHT, meaning you use your Gold or SP1 copy, Slipstream the copy and burn the result, you will be able to install Windows XP with SP2 integrated already. Whoever's still installing thier gold version of windows, then getting into the OS to launch the SP2 installer, is asking for trouble.
Slipstream SP2 onto your gold install, You'll be FINE. SP2 works just FINE if you INSTALL from a CLEAN hard disk, not upgrade over something else or just do what YOU think is right. There's a logical way to do this, and installing anything onto a clean disk will most of the time guarantee you a fully working platform to work on.
Anyways - Yes, I remember the same rumors popping up about XP when it came out. One of the most ridiculous I've heard before it came out was "that Windows will not let you install any other hardware once you've installed the OS and you can never reinstall it." It all boiled down to Activation, which is silly in itself.I honestly do not see what's wrong with Activation in the first place, speaking from the perspective of a network technician. All it supposedly does is make a hash of what kind of hardware you have in your machine, and ties your product key to that hardware hash. Sure, every time you make a major upgrade, you'll have to re-hash the system info to your product key. Now, speaking from the personally-paranoid "I want to keep my system secure" viepoint, I can understand why some people absoluetly refuse to activate thier systems, or crack activation. Sure, people are afraid that a whole bunch of stuff is going to be sent off to M$ violating privacy and stuff like that. I think it's still silly, because if you install Windows on a bare drive, how in the hell is it going to know what other stuff you have on your system at install? That, and if you're using a firewall that's smarter than ZoneAlarm, you'd be able to see what traffic leaves your system. You'd be able to SEE what components are trying to be sneaky and talk to M$, IF they do that at all.
I'm thinking that this new "trusted hardware" is all about the DRM stuff that's going on right now. Just as an0n said, playing UNLICENSED content, not Pirated content. Licensing probably meaning it's not digitally signed with a DRM signature, cept for the new form of encryption. Notice, it's about encryption, or the encryption of files, not the playback of pirated material.
Honestly, do you honestly think that people are going to have to just toss thier old systems away just to use Vista, that M$ is going to make thier software only usable with a new hardware chip? I honestly doubt it. Everyone said the same exact thing when XP came out, that hardware couldnt' be changed and old systems would have to be thrown away and all. It was NOT the case. It was simply an inconvienence for system builders and tweakers who like to keep thier case open and swap out hardware a lot. All you'd have to do after your 3rd activation was give a phone operator a new hash code, and say "No, I have not installed this on any other machine" or something to that effect. They give you the hash, and you put it in, and everything was activated.
What a lot of people also say, like about the new activation, or other related things, being more complex, there's only a certain level of complexity that a lot of non-technical computer users will put up with. Beyond that point, people will simply not use the software because it's too difficult to make it work, even with tech support. If M$ thinks they can force a product this much more complex on the public, which I honestly dont think it will be as complex as most people are making it out to be, the public will not use the software.
Maybe M$ just needs to learn the hard way though, that is IF they do this.
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SP2 works just FINE if you INSTALL from a CLEAN hard disk, not upgrade over something else or just do what YOU think is right.
That's exactly why I don't want to upgrade to SP2. It would take me forever to reinstall and configure all my programs again. What a colossal waste of time that would be. The only reason I would consider SP2 at all is because the dual core hotfix seems to require it.
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Wait! You can crack windows XP Activation? OH PLEASE TELL ME HOW!!!!
You don't even need to crack it. Just let the ActiveX control install in IE, and then go to Tools > Manage Add-ons... and select the Windows Genuine Advantage add-on. Pick "Disable" at the bottom of the dialog and go update your computer to your heart's content.
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You don't even need to crack it. Just let the ActiveX control install in IE, and then go to Tools > Manage Add-ons... and select the Windows Genuine Advantage add-on. Pick "Disable" at the bottom of the dialog and go update your computer to your heart's content.
I think this wee work-around has been 'fixed'.
Irrespective, this isn't what he means by activation. Activation is where you log on to MS's server and authenticate your key. If you don't do it after 30 days your copy of XP becomes unusable, it kicks you out to the 'choose your account' screen.
The activation can however be disabled using a crack in safe mode, it's a very straightforward affair and the crack itself is widespread.
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Oh, right, different thing. Oops. :o
Anyway, that work-around has worked around the clock for me. :p
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What I find funny is the BBC skewing the facts in this affair. They make it sound like its impossible to disable.
Personally I'm more disturbed by the fact that a security 'expert' is begging for back doors to be installed into an encryption scheme.
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There's more crap in this thread than in unflushed toilet. Thankfully Nix already had the patience to correct most of said things.
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CP5670, I hear you, I really do, but sometimes that's the only way. I only do it after something's broken badly in the system, or it's hit my usual 6-month usage of my machine. I usually do a re-format after 6 months, just due to how much bloat gets installed with all the programs and such. I'm one of those guys who believes in partitioning and keeping everything seperate from another. I've went as far as making a System partition, Swap partition, Games partition, Data partition, and Media partition. Sure, I'm nuts, but I like things... seperated and organized. This way, I can zap the System partition, and re-load the OS onto that partition, and run all the driver installs and such from the other partitions when Windows detects them. Honestly, it's not a collosal waste of time once you have things seperated. My downtime, from format to having all essential programs, utilities, and applications installed usually takes about 4-6 hours. Of course, that depends on what you use normally, and you might use a whole lot more than me. But for me, I'll just usually do it on a weekend with nothing to do, and it'll get done before class on Monday.
If people hate to activate just to get updates installed, you can look for a nice program called AutoPatcherXP. I believe you can get it somewhere over at neowin's forums. It's an all-in-one patch program with patches taken from Microsoft's library of patches, and includes some nice tools like all of the XP Powertoys and TweakUI. It'll do a lot of other things for you, and you have full control over what's installed and what isnt. If you have to go that route, that'll save you on the download time, by having all the patches in one neat and customizable package without having to download them over and over again through Windows Update. Really useful for people on Dialup, if you can somehow get the packages off of a fast connection onto a big flash drive of some sort. Best thing of all, it works without Activation or Genuine Validation. (At least, it did for me, I cannot guarantee results across the board for everyone.)
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There's more crap in this thread than in unflushed toilet. Thankfully Nix already had the patience to correct most of said things.
That is because the article itself was misleading, That was the first I'd heard of the whole thing, so you can hardly blame us for reacting to the information supplied.
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Though I guess we got a little zealous in the old 'Microsoft is evil' mantra.
Hey Nix, I've been planning my next install on a fresh hdd for a while now, and your system sounds familiar to the way I was planning.
Could I trouble you for some more details reguarding sizes of partitions, and where programs are rigged etc.? :)
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@ Grug
One very very important note. If you use the built in Windows File system Encryption, DECRYPT ALL FILES before you reformat, otherwise they will be unaccessable forever. The only way to get access to them is to have a backup of the local keystore, but I'm not sure how this works at all, so just do it the easy way and DECRYPT any encrypted files before you reformat.
It's personal prefrence really. I plan on my partitions to have at least 30% free space on them, to help curb fragmentation. My system drive sits on my SATA drive which is 160GB large with the system/boot partition set for 20GB. Windows and the Program Files sit on that partition. I have a 300mb swap partition on there, but before you gasp in horror, I have a seperate 5 GB partition set up with a 3GB swap file put on it. All of my programs are installed into the normal location, which is usually C:\Program Files with the exception of my Games which go in it's own partition. Why do this? Because, a lot of programs write registry entries, and a lot of times the programs will not function without the registry entries in the system. Restoring an old registry backup would be silly, cause you're copying over the bloat again.
The rest of the space on the SATA drive is halved, one with a storage or "scratch space" for my movie editing, compression, etc, and the other half for the games I put on. I resize as necessary, but havent needed to in my previous builds. The other two drives I have in my system are on thier own partition, two 80GB drives, one has all the music and movies on it, and the other one houses my archive of programs, utilities and drivers. You can do the same exact thing with one monster drive, and the system will think you have a bunch of hard drives, even though you're on one drive.
And why do I go through all this trouble? Because, it's a hell of a lot faster, and a hell of a lot easier to reformat a 20GB drive instead of a 160GB drive, and 2 80GB drives when it comes time for reinstall. It also keeps stuff together, and a lot of times, saves on disk wear and tear when defragmenting, cause you're only defragmenting a 20GB space. A lot of the data files and such never get fragmented, as most of it is just being stored, then zapped to DVD when not needed.
Having Partition Magic helps speed things along smoothly. One word of advice though. Sometimes, if you reinstall, and have all your partitions visible, Windows might dump it's NTDETECT and BOOT.ini files onto a different partition than your system partition! I've seen it happen before and it's a major hassle having that stuff all over the place, because your system becomes dependent on two partitions for booting. The easy way to do it is set up all your partitions in Partition Magic, and HIDE all of the partitions except for the System partition, which should be at the very front of your disk, due to BIOS limitations. When you run Windows Setup, it WILL detect all of the hidden partitions as OS/2 partitions, dont freak out cause that's how PM marks the partitions as Hidden. Once you install windows to the system partition, and all is well, verifying that your NTDETECT and BOOT.INI files are in the System partition, go back into PM and Unhide the partitions. Windows will detect all of the other partitions and data stored on them without any problem. Keep in mind, you may have to reset ownership and permissions on a reinstall.
Hope that's not too drawn out. I am quite passionate about hard disk organization, as you can see. :yes:
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LoL k. Little deciphering work there but I think I get how your system is rigged.
I had plans to do the following:
HDD 1: 120or160GB HDD ~ System and normal usage
Partitions:
C: ~ around 20 or maybe 40GB for System Drive. This holds windowsXPpro as well as assorted programs.
D: ~ Around 60GB or so for games and mods etc.
E: ~ Remainder of space hopefully at least 40GB for normal files and documents.
HDD 2: 80GB ~ Storage for media
F: ~ Media Drive for all things music, movies pics etc. (some pics would be in E too)
Y: ~ VM partition <10GB
HDD3: 80GB ~ Work ****
G: ~ Most likely work drive, keep work related **** in here.
Z: ~ Scratch Disk Drive <10GB
What you thinks?
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That would be good Grug. Just make sure your power supply can handle it.
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Personally, I keep the system partition at OS requirement + 2 gigs for Windows. Plenty of room and fast to scan/defrag. All of my programs go into D:\Program Files\*
Linux is a whole other barrel of monkeys.
Good tip on the encryption. I'd also add that quite afew programs save their configs in "C:\Documents and Settings\[insert account name here]\*", if you can dig out the proper folder and back it up you can often dump it right back into the same place on a new install and have your program work as it was previously configured. (Firefox, GAIM etc.)
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Tangent: WinXP+SP2 is to WinXP what Win98SE is to Win98 - They're practically different OS'.
Installing SP2 on a used XP or XPSP1 system - ESPESCIALLY one that has had *any* post-SP2 hotfixes installed - will usually cause stuff to break and/or act funny.
I find with SP2, the best way to install it is to re-install Windows XP off a slipstreamed CD.
Most systems I deal with now have SP2 pre-installed and they're pretty stable.
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Personally, I keep the system partition at OS requirement + 2 gigs for Windows. Plenty of room and fast to scan/defrag. All of my programs go into D:\Program Files\*
Linux is a whole other barrel of monkeys.
Good tip on the encryption. I'd also add that quite afew programs save their configs in "C:\Documents and Settings\[insert account name here]\*", if you can dig out the proper folder and back it up you can often dump it right back into the same place on a new install and have your program work as it was previously configured. (Firefox, GAIM etc.)
I was considering doing a OS seperate partition and a program files partition, but would that speed things up or slow them down?
Also what size partition would be best for a Windows only install?
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@Grug
I'm not sure if it has any effect. This might sound nuts, but it is somewhat similar to partitioning. I have three 160GB SATA drives in my PC. One drive is for nothing but windows, office, and other progrqams like that(yeah it has like 151GB of free space that just sits there). My second one is for games only. The third drive is what I call my "stuff I need to keep" drive. I do this so when I do need to do a format and reinstall, I only lose windows, office, and other crap programs that take seconds to install, but do not lose any valuable data. I have not noticed one bit of speed increase or decrease having windows on its own "partition"(HDD).
A note about disk fragmentation.
I recommend a program called diskeeper. http://www.diskeeper.com/defrag.asp Never again will you sit and wait for your HDD to defrag because it does it on its own.
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I long ago gave up on multiple partitions when I kept on running out of room in one, and found myself forced to store that video or game or whatever on another partition than the primary one for that purpose. Now I go with as few partitions as possible. As for reformatting... meh. Keep your Windows clean of extra cruft and it'll last until you need to get a new HDD anyway.
As for organization, however... I use folders in a certain way, which I parallel both on the drive and in the Start menu. On any given day, you'll find most of my programs filed away under one of the following folders:
- Games (...duh)
- Tools (Things like Text editors, WinZip/Rar, etc)
- System (things that integrate themselves into the system beyond mere file association, such as anti-virus and anti-spyware programs, Google Desktop, etc)
- Internet (web browser, email client, FTP client, IM program, etc)
- Multimedia (Generally audio and video players like Winamp, Media Player Classic, etc. A subfolder called "Codecs" when they get too numerous)
- Graphics (Photoshop, MAX, Rhino3D, etc)
- Hardware (Anything related to hardware directly: CD burning program, sound and GFX card drivers, etc)
Anything that doesn't fit into any of those categories I allow into the acursed 'Program Files' (http://www.brainzipper.com/old/nitpick.html), such as Acrobat Reader. I've also been known to have 'Mobile Phone' and 'Palm' folders at times as well. :)
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I have not noticed one bit of speed increase or decrease having windows on its own "partition"(HDD).
That's probably cause the first thing you should do is have the swapfile on a different partition or better yet drive from the OS.
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I basically keep four main folders: games, apps, files and utils. Everything is stashed in one of those.
CP5670, I hear you, I really do, but sometimes that's the only way. I only do it after something's broken badly in the system, or it's hit my usual 6-month usage of my machine. I usually do a re-format after 6 months, just due to how much bloat gets installed with all the programs and such. I'm one of those guys who believes in partitioning and keeping everything seperate from another. I've went as far as making a System partition, Swap partition, Games partition, Data partition, and Media partition. Sure, I'm nuts, but I like things... seperated and organized. This way, I can zap the System partition, and re-load the OS onto that partition, and run all the driver installs and such from the other partitions when Windows detects them. Honestly, it's not a collosal waste of time once you have things seperated. My downtime, from format to having all essential programs, utilities, and applications installed usually takes about 4-6 hours. Of course, that depends on what you use normally, and you might use a whole lot more than me. But for me, I'll just usually do it on a weekend with nothing to do, and it'll get done before class on Monday.
I actually haven't reinstalled XP at all since I switched to it in early 2003. I was thinking about having separate partitions at one point, but the problem is all the programs these days put their crap everywhere in the Windows directories and registry, so if you remove Windows, you're going to have to reinstall many of your programs anyway. It would take me at least two days of heavy work to get everything installed and set up the way it is now.
I don't need anything that SP2 offers at the moment, but if I get a dual core, I would have to upgrade.
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The point of partitioning isn't to stop you from having to reinstall stuff. You'll probably have to anyway. It's so that you can reinstall without having to back up everything first.
Furthermore you can image the (much smaller) partition and save that to a DVD or another partition. If you ever have a problem you simply copy the image back.
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There's more crap in this thread than in unflushed toilet. Thankfully Nix already had the patience to correct most of said things.
/me gets no respect
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Diskeeper, ah yes, I use that as well. Here's another suggestion I make. If you decide to take the plunge and reformat, once you have your system partition stable, it makes it a lot easier for programs like Ghost to take an image of that partition and dump it onto a larger partition, so you only have to do the setup once. Now, if your programs get constantly updated, or drivers are constantly updated, this becomes a problem as you'll probably want to reinstall Windows and install the very latest drivers FIRST instead of putting your image back down, and installing new drivers over old drivers. That causes instability, and well, bloat. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but for me, with this setup, I'm never really afraid to reformat.
Grug, that sounds pretty much like what I have set up, and if you're already running the three hard disks in your system currently, adding or subtracting partitions has no effect on your PSU, so I have no idea what Triple Ace was smoking with that comment. :)
I honestly do not understand why some people though seperate thier Program files directory from thier system partition itself. When you blow away windows, all of those programs need to be installed all over again, because of registry entries, installable shared files that they might use (anyone installing ANY symantec product will run into this problem) and all the nice shortcuts that are created for you at the end of the install. I'm all about organization, but I'm also about correct functionality as well. Each one to thier own, but I feel that putting all of the program files onto another partition or splitting them up into seperate folders is simply overkill. Like I've said, all those programs are going to have to be reinstalled in order to ensure thier correct functionality, so why not just axe the whole thing since you're gonna have to do it all over again? (Doing it all over again AFTER you back up that is.)
Wow, what a way to derail a thread eh....
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I have not noticed one bit of speed increase or decrease having windows on its own "partition"(HDD).
That's probably cause the first thing you should do is have the swapfile on a different partition or better yet drive from the OS.
I'm aware of that. I keep it on the "stuff I need to keep drive". This way neither my OS drive or my Games drive is wasting time by using the swapfile. ;)
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partitioning under windows is all about organization, not necessarily about speed. Putting the swap file on its own partition will prevent swapfile fragmentation, which can cause holy hell on paging to disk. Once, halfway out of curiosity and neglect, I started filling up the C drive which housed the swapfile. All of a sudden, the swapfile started to grow along with the data being dumped on it, I ended up with diskeeper making my yellow swapfile look like swiss cheese. It was broken into over 250-ish fragments. It was horrid, not even a boot defrag could force consolidation on the swapfile.... That experience prompted me to think like a linux user and make a swap partition. So far, its been great.
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i'm looking forward to trying out Vista at the office. probably going to be a while before i consider switching to it at home though
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I cant see any reason to "upgrade"
i have a transformation pack for windows longhorn, and it sure beats XP.