Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Axem on July 08, 2006, 12:57:49 pm

Title: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Axem on July 08, 2006, 12:57:49 pm
okok so it has like, 5000 beam cannons (BFReds), can take out a collususus, the entire gtva fleet AND can blow up stars and survive!

:nervous:

Ok, maybe not. It's Shivan and a cruiser. It would be about the size of a Lilith, maybe slightly bigger or smaller. My thought was to make it a Shivan Aeolus, a terror to fighters. Cluster missiles, flak, AAA, with not as great anti cap ship weaponry.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/shiiiivan3.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/shiiiivan4.jpg)

Your thoughts, opinions and comments?
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Dark Hunter on July 08, 2006, 01:02:51 pm
Looks good. With textures I can imagine it would look very Shivan indeed. Looks almost like a Lilith MK. II to me.
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Sarafan on July 08, 2006, 02:52:42 pm
Make the frontal part, it's ''mouth'', I mean, smaller. What's its weaponry?
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Nuke on July 08, 2006, 03:25:49 pm
nice
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Axem on July 08, 2006, 03:50:31 pm
Sarafan: Good point. Originally it was going to be a light cruiser, so the front was a bit bigger.

Armament planned so far is 3 SReds, 4 AAAf, 3 Fighter Killers, and around 6 or so flak/laser guns.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/shiiiivan9.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/shiiiivan8.jpg)
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Goober5000 on July 08, 2006, 04:00:44 pm
In the original :v: concept art, those three triangular dots are where beams are supposed to go (which is why the Lucifer is described as having 3 beams - one on each arm and one in the middle).  This is sort of kept in the Cain and Lilith classes, except the turret is underneath the triangle rather than on it.  So maybe you should put a larger beam there. :)
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Axem on July 08, 2006, 04:12:48 pm
Nice idea. Maybe an LRed in the middle there and say the dots are all giving a contribution to the beam.
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: TrashMan on July 08, 2006, 05:20:14 pm
Yeah, but it wouldn't be a light crouser anymore with a LRed...
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Sarafan on July 08, 2006, 05:36:10 pm
That's a good idea, a beam in the middle (light enough to remain a light cruiser) and you could add 3 AAAfs on a triangular form, one at the top of each claw and a last one at the rear, that would give them the best coverage.
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Admiral Nelson on July 08, 2006, 05:45:57 pm
Warning: radical idea..... :)

Give it Lilith armament. And then call it a Lilith....  Then we have a visually distinct ship to look at, instead of a Cain clone....  :drevil:
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Dark Hunter on July 08, 2006, 06:13:09 pm
Yeah, but it wouldn't be a light crouser anymore with a LRed...

It could be a light strike cruiser.
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Axem on July 08, 2006, 06:58:19 pm
Trashman: Well I said originally it would have been a light cruiser, but I changed my mind. The front was a bit bigger for that reason, to make it seem a bit smaller.

Admiral Nelson: Making it a Lilith wouldn't work. The weapons placement wouldn't fit on the ship. Nice try though. ;)
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Taristin on July 08, 2006, 08:35:38 pm
Its nice, but it'll need custom mapping, I think, on par with the Lilith to do it justice.
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Trivial Psychic on July 08, 2006, 08:51:16 pm
Here's a thought... its kind of a long-range shivan RBC on a ship.  Basically, its rather weak for a cruiser, with minimal anti-fighter weapons, and one weapon on the front thats like a very long range version of the BFRed, or perhaps something a little lighter.  Its kinda fast for a cruiser so it can make a quick get-away.  The idea is, the Shivans use some cap-ships as bait to lure an enemy destroyer into an engagement, then about 4 of these jump in at long range, each from different vectors, and proceed to chew-up the destroyers, so that when they get within range of the bait cap-ships, the destroyer is in no shape to fight and is torn apart.  Furthermore, by the time fighters or other cap-ships can be scrambled to attack these cruisers, it can jump out and escape.

Oh, and I think that this looks VERY cool!
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Dark Hunter on July 08, 2006, 09:08:13 pm
Kinda like a scaled-down SSD Diablo.... (WAY scaled down)
One big gun, and minimal defense everywhere else.
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Axem on July 08, 2006, 09:41:29 pm
Raa: Yeah, it needs its own UV map. Tiled just doesn't do it any more. The ship has perfect triangular symmetry, so I only need to UV map a third of it. Well in theory at least. ;)

At the very least, I'll UV map it and use the textures from the Media VP's to create the map. But if someone else wants to texture it, be my guest. :D
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Unknown Target on July 09, 2006, 12:05:29 am
Very cool, although if the big spiky part is the front, try stretching it out a little bit - it looks kind of squished right now, IMO.
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Mefustae on July 09, 2006, 12:39:37 am
Am I the only one who thought this was an HTL attempt at the Lilith/Cain design? Seriously, I want to see this kind of radical HTL'ing on more models, it worked wonders for the Dis [which now looks damned sexy], so maybe we could do the same with the Cain and/or Lilith, which are both in dire need of HTL'ing anyways... not as radical as this, but still a departure from the original... :nervous:
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Nuke on July 09, 2006, 01:36:32 am
ive a crazy plan. cut the arms off at the joint and make them subobjects. use the animation code in conjunction with the turret firing trigger so that the arms fold in, sathanas style, then the turret fires. maybe instead of a beam make it a subspace weapon of sorts. i think it would be cool :D

Raa: Yeah, it needs its own UV map. Tiled just doesn't do it any more. The ship has perfect triangular symmetry, so I only need to UV map a third of it. Well in theory at least. ;)

At the very least, I'll UV map it and use the textures from the Media VP's to create the map. But if someone else wants to texture it, be my guest. :D

i find that you can go all the way up to corvette using a single texture as opposed to tiles. its tough and you got to double up as much stuff as possible (you know how tightly packed the uv space for the ragnarok is :D). still being only a criuser, gives you room to splurge. if i had time id love to texture it. unfortunately i dont. but good luck anyway. :D
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Xeandra on July 09, 2006, 04:58:44 am
make the tree dots anti-fighter beams so it could tear up the defensive fighters of larger ships, and any other fighter that gets to its forward arch
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Axem on July 09, 2006, 09:27:14 am
Nuke: ;) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/sssssh.jpg) Yeah, I've UV mapped a few ships, I've gotten to know how to squeeze as much stuff into the space as I can. I don't think it'll be much of a problem for this guy though.
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Sarafan on July 09, 2006, 11:06:27 am
ive a crazy plan. cut the arms off at the joint and make them subobjects. use the animation code in conjunction with the turret firing trigger so that the arms fold in, sathanas style, then the turret fires. maybe instead of a beam make it a subspace weapon of sorts. i think it would be cool :D


The idea of a subspace weapon is interesting and its sort fit the design as well. How about a subspace inibitor (is that the word?I dont know.)? It could double as that and a light cruiser, it jumps in in a group of 2 or 3 with another cruiser like the Lilith, blocks the enemy from escaping and takes down the fighters while a heavier ship takes on anything heavier on the field. It could work in conjuction with the Lilith or the Moloch for this.
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Axem on July 13, 2006, 11:43:17 pm
UV Mapping done, poor job of texturing done, converting done. So how about a showcase?

Presenting the SC Lamia!

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/lamia3.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/lamia2.jpg)

And how about a movie? Its pretty big for its length. I couldn't figure out how to compress the audio in Virtual Dub. But here it is for now.

Movie! (12.0MB, DivX6) (http://www.game-warden.com/narfin/movies/LamiaPV2.avi)

EDIT: Movie's now half the size, but still a bit big.
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Dark Hunter on July 13, 2006, 11:48:37 pm
Gimme gimme gimme gimme!  :D


Are those things really able to take down a corvette and cruiser on their own? Or was that just some handy SEXPing?
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Axem on July 13, 2006, 11:51:38 pm
Sadly the mission was nothing more than 4 waypoint paths and a beam free all by default box checked. The beam is just a very slightly toned down LRed, I was quite surprised when it took down both without much of a fight.
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Dark Hunter on July 14, 2006, 12:01:28 am
I'm officially impressed in that case.  :cool:


Any plans on releasing it sometime soon?
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Fade Rathnik on July 15, 2006, 05:00:05 pm
It might look a touch meaner if the leading edges of arms were plated armor.
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: foolfromhell on July 15, 2006, 05:04:04 pm
Make the frontal part, it's ''mouth'', I mean, smaller. What's its weaponry?
Turn it into a Corvette and make that the fighterbay?
Or, Put in a VERY strong beam that fights striaght in front only, and needs a LONG recharge
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Gregster2k on July 17, 2006, 11:55:04 am
Sadly the mission was nothing more than 4 waypoint paths and a beam free all by default box checked. The beam is just a very slightly toned down LRed, I was quite surprised when it took down both without much of a fight.

Well, it is a Cruiser class, so it's probably hard to hit - even LRed toned down might be overkill. Maybe if you put a lot of Shivan antifighter beams on the front there? Or maybe a slasher beam would be more appropriate?
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Axem on July 17, 2006, 12:28:06 pm
Well when I replaced the two with Liliths, the battle was over even quicker, so I guess it's on par with the Lilith. The Lamia may not have the same strength against cap ships, but it will rip up fighters.
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Sarafan on July 17, 2006, 12:52:54 pm
WOW! The way it fires it's beam canon is incredible. :yes: But for a light cruiser isnt that beam way too overpowered?
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Axem on July 17, 2006, 12:57:21 pm
I changed my mind while making it and its a full fledged cruiser right now.
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Sarafan on July 17, 2006, 01:00:07 pm
Something like the Lilith in firepower but far better against small craft? It's going to be heavily armored as well?
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Axem on July 17, 2006, 01:53:25 pm
Slightly more armor. It has about 5000 more hitpoints than the Lilith.
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Sarafan on July 17, 2006, 01:57:09 pm
Do you already have the finished armament for it? How many flaks, laser turrets, etc?
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Axem on July 17, 2006, 02:00:52 pm
1 LamiaRed (slightly toned down LRed), 6 Flak Guns, 6 LamiaLasers (weak against shields, strong against hull), and 3 Shivan Clusters.
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Sarafan on July 17, 2006, 02:09:16 pm
DEADLY. :shaking:
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Kosh on July 18, 2006, 09:27:17 pm
1 LamiaRed (slightly toned down LRed), 6 Flak Guns, 6 LamiaLasers (weak against shields, strong against hull), and 3 Shivan Clusters.

Isn't that a bit over-gunned?
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Axem on July 18, 2006, 09:56:05 pm
The beam cannon also has a limited firing arc (90 degrees as opposed to 180 degress for most other ships), so if a cap ship manages to flank this, its screwed. Aside from that and the missile launchers (which typically do squat anyway), its similar to an Aeolus.
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Bobboau on July 18, 2006, 10:07:44 pm
doesn't seem to be very solid
and it could use something to designate on direction as a down, the trilateral symetry just isn't working for me.
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Dark Hunter on July 18, 2006, 11:22:46 pm
What does up and down matter in a space environment though? I think it makes more sense with the symmetry.
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Mars on July 19, 2006, 01:42:54 pm
Maybe you should tone that beam down a little.

It's hard for a Lilith to take down a Deimos, it can happen, but it's difficult

Coolest cruiser... ever though.
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Aardwolf on July 20, 2006, 07:35:17 pm
I agree that the trilateral symmetry is kind of strange... even for Shivans. Maybe just a tiny tweak?
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Nuke on July 21, 2006, 01:22:56 am
I agree that the trilateral symmetry is kind of strange... even for Shivans. Maybe just a tiny tweak?

thats triradial :D

and shivans dont need a down :D
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Wanderer on July 21, 2006, 01:52:55 am
Maybe you should tone that beam down a little.

It's hard for a Lilith to take down a Deimos, it can happen, but it's difficult

Coolest cruiser... ever though.
That cruiser already has toned down lilith beam (like downgraded LRed).. Liliths deal the even more damage and have practically the same amount of hitpoints so they would take those same ships out even faster.
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: aldo_14 on July 21, 2006, 03:48:02 am
I like the model, I'm not sure on the maps.  I'd have went with (for example) a 'carapace / shell' type texture on the rear, for example :)
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Kosh on July 23, 2006, 10:19:30 am
The beam cannon also has a limited firing arc (90 degrees as opposed to 180 degress for most other ships), so if a cap ship manages to flank this, its screwed. Aside from that and the missile launchers (which typically do squat anyway), its similar to an Aeolus.

An LRed, even a slightly watered down one, is still one of the ultimate ***** slapping beams of the game. The Lilith was very dangerous to capital ships because of that, but this was balanced by being quite vulnerable to bombers. An Aeolus is the exact opposite. Almost all capital ships in FS are balanced like this. The exception is the Deimos because it is a good cap ship killer as well as being hard to bomb.
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Axem on July 23, 2006, 10:59:27 am
I see your point, most ships were either anti-cap or anti-fighter. The beam can still be toned down, I do think Shivan beams are a tad on the way-to-quick-to-kill-everything factor.
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Kazan on July 23, 2006, 11:22:54 am
very nice - A+ work, one of the best "new" shivan vessels i've seen.. nice weapon fire animation.... when did that become possible?
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Kosh on July 24, 2006, 03:03:11 am
I see your point, most ships were either anti-cap or anti-fighter. The beam can still be toned down, I do think Shivan beams are a tad on the way-to-quick-to-kill-everything factor.


Maybe having this one between an SRed and an LRed would work best. This way it is balanced between an anti-cap ship role and an anti-fighter role (basically what the Moloch should have been, but wasn't).

I do think this is a good model though.

BTW, are you still working on that psycho Barney campaign? :D
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Axem on July 24, 2006, 11:17:38 am
Maybe having this one between an SRed and an LRed would work best. This way it is balanced between an anti-cap ship role and an anti-fighter role (basically what the Moloch should have been, but wasn't).

An MRed or something. There is a large jump in the beam weapon damages. From GreenBeam to SGreen to BFGreen? And SRed to LRed? Beams either suck horribly or do too well.

BTW, are you still working on that psycho Barney campaign? :D

It's on hold right now. :p
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Mars on July 24, 2006, 05:13:02 pm
Maybe having this one between an SRed and an LRed would work best. This way it is balanced between an anti-cap ship role and an anti-fighter role (basically what the Moloch should have been, but wasn't).

An MRed or something. There is a large jump in the beam weapon damages. From GreenBeam to SGreen to BFGreen? And SRed to LRed? Beams either suck horribly or do too well.

The Terran progression is more like SGreen, LTerSlash, Green Beam, Terslash, BGreen
Terslashes are supposed to be an imbetween, but in reality they suck almost as bad as the SGreen, an MGreen would be easy, just turn the TerSlash into a LOS beam. I'm sure you knew all of this already, but... it just came out.

BTW, are you still working on that psycho Barney campaign? :D

It's on hold right now. :p

 :(
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Axem on July 24, 2006, 06:40:43 pm
The Terran progression is more like SGreen, LTerSlash, Green Beam, Terslash, BGreen
Terslashes are supposed to be an imbetween, but in reality they suck almost as bad as the SGreen, an MGreen would be easy, just turn the TerSlash into a LOS beam. I'm sure you knew all of this already, but... it just came out.

Well I was talking direct fire beams, and I guess I got the Green Beam and SGreen mixed up (they both suck though). Slash beams are a mixed bag. They're great against huge ships (Corvettes, Destroyers), but bad against smaller ones (cruisers).

BTW, are you still working on that psycho Barney campaign? :D

It's on hold right now. :p

 :(

Plots at a standstill.

Spoiler:
I don't know what I should do after Barney makes the universe collapse on itself... :sigh:
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Taristin on July 24, 2006, 08:51:28 pm
Spoiler:
I don't know what I should do after Barney makes the universe collapse on itself... :sigh:

Spoiler:
Have a psychadelic party but then have it slowly become more like hell!
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Axem on July 24, 2006, 08:58:38 pm
Spoiler:
Genius! Act 7: Barney and the Completely Legal Drug Party with Derek Smart
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Mars on July 24, 2006, 08:59:49 pm
Oh! Oh God no!

Sounds like a plan :yes:
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Goober5000 on July 25, 2006, 05:43:54 pm
Spoiler:
I don't know what I should do after Barney makes the universe collapse on itself... :sigh:

Spoiler:
Crossover with Transcend?
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: PotzUK on August 08, 2006, 03:15:29 am
I'm loving the look of this model  8)  Any news on a release?
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Axem on August 08, 2006, 09:23:18 pm
It's sorta close to a release. I'd like to add atleast one LOD, and I asked DaBrain to help with the final maps. As soon as those things are done, I'll release it. :)
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: Sarafan on August 08, 2006, 10:08:28 pm
How about your Barney campaign? What's the status on that? Are you really going to do what's on those spoiler tags? :lol: Keep up the great work on the Lamia. :yes:
Title: Re: Shivan Cruiser
Post by: PotzUK on August 09, 2006, 03:46:19 am
It's sorta close to a release. I'd like to add atleast one LOD, and I asked DaBrain to help with the final maps. As soon as those things are done, I'll release it. :)

Sweeet, cos I think it'll fit right in with the campaign I'm working on  :cool: