Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mobius on September 08, 2006, 03:16:10 pm

Title: Mobius' Cafè,GTD Leda,deck 7.
Post by: Mobius on September 08, 2006, 03:16:10 pm
Martellato?Are you Italian?
(Your nick)

Nice work with this list,even coloured!
Title: Re:
Post by: martellato on September 08, 2006, 03:26:05 pm
Thanks both.

The nick is definitely Italian.. though I'm not.  Was just looking for some nick that someelse didn't already have, so I pulled out an English-Italian translator and tried to find a catchy nick for "hammered".
Title: Re:
Post by: Mobius on September 08, 2006, 03:34:24 pm
Thanks both.

The nick is definitely Italian.. though I'm not.  Was just looking for some nick that someelse didn't already have, so I pulled out an English-Italian translator and tried to find a catchy nick for "hammered".

Umpf,you're not Italian...
Keep in mind that martellato sounds like marmellata(jam) :D

My search of other Italian member continues....woooshhh
Title: Re:
Post by: martellato on September 08, 2006, 04:13:21 pm
aw.  :(    *rejected*
Title: Re:
Post by: Mobius on September 08, 2006, 04:32:53 pm
aw.  :(    *rejected*

Don't worry.Only me,Edivad,Dysko,Yemminator and Karma know this hammer-jam thing...and of course.
You should be proud to have an Italian nick,FreeSpace uses more Italian words than any other english game.
Terra-Luna-agenda-per-via-Sol(e)-La Ruota Della Fortuna(an FS1 mission)....
Most classes and weapons name have something to do with Italy,even non canon ones:
Inferno-Circe-Scylla-Cyclops-Aeolus-Messana etc.
If I remember more of them,I'll post them here.

One more thing:
I live in a Southern Region of Italy,called Calabria:
(http://images.google.it/images?q=tbn:DTjdCT-vdUCZ3M:http://www.travelplan.it/img/calabria.jpg)
Do you remember the names of the warships in Clash of the Titans II?
Well,the place where I lived is called Sparta,at about 5 km there are some Bastions built by some kind of Templars,the Knights of Malta,to defend the Region from Pirates.Good,uh?
Title: Re:
Post by: brandx0 on September 08, 2006, 10:24:59 pm
Actually Most are derived from latin (which of course evolved into italian, but also languages such as french, spanish, english (though more german based) romanian etc.)
Title: Re:
Post by: Mobius on September 09, 2006, 04:39:48 am
Actually Most are derived from latin (which of course evolved into italian, but also languages such as french, spanish, english (though more german based) romanian etc.)

Latin is dead,but unfortunately it survives in schools :(
La Ruota Della Fortuna IS Italian.
My Calabria was colonized by Greeks and called Magna Graecia(latin,"Great Greace").The guy who wrote the Odissey probably lived here,as well as Pitagoras.
FreeSpace is here.....
Title: Re:
Post by: Mobius on September 09, 2006, 02:34:47 pm
Ah,I forgot Francesco(Francis,like me!!!) Petrarca(Petrarch).
Title: Re:
Post by: Christopherger on September 13, 2006, 09:07:21 am
LieutenantGeneral M, sir, I have been to your great country several times, and lived in Venizia form a time (i am an artist by trade of some 35 yrs.) and love your country, people, history, esp. You are fron Petrarch's home town! He was a great master!  I study the history of Rome for many reasons over the years, and tho it is far from Freespace universe, there is a game called Caesar which gives an unparalleled chance to experience the growth and details of ancient Roma, Caesar II is quite good, tho old and DOS.

I think the idea of the info on builds is a great one, as I am just now working through the install of FS O, and thought the Academy Headmaster was very very kind to give me details, this would be a great intro for people and a way to keep current.

Valle and Il buon giorno e li ringrazia.  :)
Title: Re:
Post by: Mobius on September 14, 2006, 02:49:47 pm
Christ(o):
Sorry but I didn't undestand the last sentence....
Valle and the good morning and thanks?
You visited venezia and Rome I think but you forgot the best part...the South(with all respect for Dysko,Edivad and Karma)!

hammered:this page isn't stickied but your efforts are much appreciated :D
Title: Re:
Post by: Polpolion on September 14, 2006, 08:16:18 pm
aw.  :(    *rejected*

Don't worry.Only me,Edivad,Dysko,Yemminator and Karma know this hammer-jam thing...and of course.
You should be proud to have an Italian nick,FreeSpace uses more Italian words than any other english game.
Terra-Luna-agenda-per-via-Sol(e)-La Ruota Della Fortuna(an FS1 mission)....
Most classes and weapons name have something to do with Italy,even non canon ones:
Inferno-Circe-Scylla-Cyclops-Aeolus-Messana etc.
If I remember more of them,I'll post them here.

One more thing:
I live in a Southern Region of Italy,called Calabria:
(http://images.google.it/images?q=tbn:DTjdCT-vdUCZ3M:http://www.travelplan.it/img/calabria.jpg)
Do you remember the names of the warships in Clash of the Titans II?
Well,the place where I lived is called Sparta,at about 5 km there are some Bastions built by some kind of Templars,the Knights of Malta,to defend the Region from Pirates.Good,uh?

A fair amount of those words are Latin (Latin != Italian except in some cases), and everyone knows that Martamello is (sorta) jam now, since you posted it.  :P
Title: Re:
Post by: brandx0 on September 14, 2006, 09:55:43 pm
Terra, Latin word for Earth, or land
Luna, Latin word for Moon
Sol, Latin word for The Sun
Inferno, from latin Infernus: "hell"
Circe, a greek goddess
Scylla, a greek sea monster
Cyclops, from the greek "kyklops" meaning round eyed, a greek monster
Aeolus, Greek, the son of poseidon
Messana, Named in honour of the Greek city Messene
Sparta, a greek city state, named before Italian existed as a language
Bastion, derived from Bastille, a french word for fortress, or tower
Templar, from latin Templaris
Malta, from the Latin Melite, or perhaps the Phonecian Melita, meaning a place of refuge

Greek seems to be the language of preference and naming, moreso than Italian.
Title: Re: Re:
Post by: Flipside on September 14, 2006, 11:39:09 pm
Nuts, forgot to rename it and don't know how to after I've created the thread :nervous:

It's a mixture really of the two, in the case of Freespace a lot more Latin turns up than Greek, Hercules instead of Heracles, Poseidon instead of Neptune etc, however, oddly enough, Orion is a glaring contradiction to that.
Title: Re:
Post by: BS403 on September 14, 2006, 11:47:41 pm
Poseidon is greek
isn't it?
Title: Re: Re:
Post by: Flipside on September 14, 2006, 11:54:27 pm
Yup, sorry, got that the wrong way round there, Poseidon is one of the Greek ones too :)

Well, to sum up what I can remember,
I'm pretty sure Deimos was Latin, but not certain, but certainly Athena, Ares, Apollo, Hercules, Triton and Ulysses  were Latin. There were some 'transients', Myrmidon, Medusa, Pegasus and Leviathan which were, I believe, the same in both languages, and Zeus, Orion, Hera, Poseidon, Hades and Knossos were Greek in Origin.

Oh and the Fenris was Norse for some reason.

There are more, but that's just from memory early in the morning ;)
Title: Re: Re:
Post by: Herra Tohtori on September 15, 2006, 12:31:41 am
Yup, sorry, got that the wrong way round there, Poseidon is one of the Greek ones too :)

Well, to sum up what I can remember,
I'm pretty sure Deimos was Latin, but not certain, but certainly Athena, Ares, Apollo, Hercules, Triton and Ulysses  were Latin. There were some 'transients', Myrmidon, Medusa, Pegasus and Leviathan which were, I believe, the same in both languages, and Zeus, Orion, Hera, Poseidon, Hades and Knossos were Greek in Origin.

Oh and the Fenris was Norse for some reason.

There are more, but that's just from memory early in the morning ;)


Deimos, and Phobos, were sons of Ares. Greek origin, but the Romans also used the names Phobos and Deimos I beleive, but they were sons of Mars instead.

Also Athena, Ares, Apollo and Triton were Greek deities. Hercules and Ulysses were latin names for Heracles and Odysseus.

Leviathan is a biblical sea monster, and it derives from jewish mythology I believe. Fenris, Mjölnir and obviously Loki are from Scandinavian mythology, and Faustus actually comes from the tale of magician and alchemist Faust who made a pact with Devil (Mephistofeles or just Mephisto...)

Anyway, most of the names for Terran craft are indeed Greek origin, but some have taken names from other cultures...

Greek names also include Hecate, Elysium, Argo and whatnot... ;)
Title: Re: Re:
Post by: Flipside on September 15, 2006, 12:36:25 am
Yeah, that's what I get for posting at 4am ;)

Ares was Mars etc, remind me never to type a list at this time of the morning again :D
Title: Re: Re:
Post by: Mobius on September 15, 2006, 02:43:20 am
The Latin language is currently dead...all latin-like words are definitely Italians.
Inferno is Italian.
Title: Re:
Post by: Herra Tohtori on September 15, 2006, 03:08:25 am
Möbius, the fact that Italy greatly derives from vulgar Latin does not make Latin Italy...

Latin is an ancient language just like ancient Greek. They are not used as first language by anyone. Italy, on the other hand, is very much alive. But so are many other languages that have derived from vulgar Latin, such as French, Spain, Portuguese and . That doesn't make them Latin, and it certainly doesn't mean that Latin is actually German, or Spanish.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/46/Romance_languages.JPG)

Courtesy of Wikipedia, here's the "family tree" of Romance languages (languages that have evolved from Vulgar Latin, which was the "public" form in daily used, as opposed to classical Latin used in documents and whatnot... Classical Latin is what we see in famous latinisms and classical Latin is the language of Catholic church. And this is the dead language. Vulgar Latin's evolved/deformed forms live happily even now and are spoken by more than 600 million native speakers.

Italy is not classical Latin, and classical Latin is not Italy. Italy, though, can be considered the closest one to vulgar Latin of current languages.
Title: Re: Re:
Post by: Mobius on September 15, 2006, 03:20:15 am
In fact it's the closest.In Spanish Earth is Tierra,not Terra for example.

I was also refering to mythological names used in FS2.In this case,Italy is protagonist.Petrarch and many other words?Why there's a FS Mission called La Ruota Della Fortuna?It isn't Latin because in Latin we don't have articles.

Mobius.The other Mobius you wrote was a surname of a math scholar,August Ferdinand Mobius.

Latin is derived by Greek.The place where I live(not Italy in general)was called Magna Graecia and was colonized by Greeks millennia ago.Romans met Grekk culture here.

Not vulgar Latin:for example,the Italian word for horse is cavallo and it derives from the vulgar latin caballus,but the High-Latin word for horse equus,survives in the Italian equino.There are many other words derived from Greek.

Here we all study Latin ans someone may choose to study Greek too(I'm not,but my mom has studied it).It's basically imposed.

Latin used the word Terra not to descrive our planet.
We use it for that purpose,however.
Title: Re: Re:
Post by: Herra Tohtori on September 15, 2006, 03:52:43 am
In fact it's the closest.In Spanish Earth is Tierra,not Terra for example.

Yes? I wrote that it can be considered the closest one to latin, if any. ;)


Quote
I was also refering to mythological names used in FS2.In this case,Italy is protagonist.Petrarch and many other words?Why there's a FS Mission called La Ruota Della Fortuna?It isn't Latin because in Latin we don't have articles.

It is in Italy because it is a well known name for equally well known symbol, the Wheel of Fortune, but it sounds nicer in Italy... And, that term itself does not seem to originate from Latin, so I don't really see the point. :p


Quote
Mobius.The other Mobius you wrote was a surname of a math scholar,August Ferdinand Mobius.


Thanks for information... I always misinterpreted your nick since now... :nervous:


Quote
Latin is derived by Greek.The place where I live(not Italy in general)was called Magna Graecia and was colonized by Greeks millennia ago.Romans met Grekk culture here.


Well, basically as far as I know it went about along these lines: The Roman Republic invaded the Greek, but the Greek level of civilization was higher than that of Romans, so instead of simply "romanizing", the Greek culture instead infested the Roman culture. Greek technology, mathematics, philosophy and religion was all adopted by at that time culturally inferior Romans. Of course in this time the Greek language had its effects on the current Latin, which was most likely quite different from High Latin's current form.

But I would say that mainly the effect was that many Greek words were adopted to Roman use; the more profound linguistic structures of Latin remain quite different from ancient Greek, at least as far as I know.


Quote
Not vulgar Latin:for example,the Italian word for horse is cavallo and it derives from the vulgar latin caballus,but the High-Latin word for horse equus,survives in the Italian equino.There are many other words derived from Greek.

I don't understand... first you say that there is word "cavallo" for horse in Italian that derives from vulgar latin, and also a word "equino" that derives from high latin... how is that related to the fact that many latin words have their origins in Greek?

There are also many differences... For example, the Greek word "tekhne", which is actually the root word for "technique" and "technology" and such, actually means "skill" as direct translation.

And the Latin word "ars" actually means the exact same thing, "skill". Eventually, a difference evolved between these two words and their derivatives; ars became synonyme to art and things related to art, while tekhne and its derivatives became known as skills related to natural sciences and technology (tekhne + logos) became to mean the knowledge or skill of utilizing laws of nature in machinery and devices...

Interestingly, the use of tekhne as related to art remains in one purpose - there are different artistic techniques, or ways to do achieve artistic end result. Or, as a "skill". :nod:

So while there are a lot of similarities between Greek and Roman cultures and languages, there are also glaring differences, and it's not good to only notice the similarities and disregard the differences just because it suits the cause... ;7

Quote
Here we all study Latin ans someone may choose to study Greek too(I'm not,but my mom has studied it).It's basically imposed.

Latin used the word Terra not to descrive our planet.
We use it for that purpose,however.

Hey, that's really cool! I wish we were taught Latin instead of Swedish... It would be really interesting and would help a lot to find out the etymologies behind every day words and whatnot.
Title: Re:
Post by: Christopherger on September 15, 2006, 12:50:48 pm
LieutenantGeneral, Sir,
sorry my Italian is poor at best, I meant indeed to say good morning and thank you.

I am enjoying the discussoin of Classical languages and cultures as I have been a fascinated tho amateur student and researcher in both Roman and Greek history, cultures, arts, and military history for many years, indeed right now I am working with a collegue on Roman economics and organizational practices in the late Republic and Empire.

Roman culture and history and Latin language derived from both Greek and Etruscan, as well as other language roots and lexography in the Mediterranean area, as there were many cultures in close contact throughout the Classical period and they all effected each other in very interesting ways.

Greece had a distinct history and culture among the many city states, indeed, however I would humble consider that both are different ratther than Greece being superior to Rome in culture, they were quite different. It is definitely true that the Romans did find much to learn from Greece and after they conquered Greece after a long period of various interactions, between Rome and the various Greek City States, the principle ones being of course Athens, Sparta, Corinth, Thebes, Syracuse, and others, much Greek influence happened in Rome, many Greek teachers, philosophers, artists, and scholars were brought to or travelled to Rome, and there was much cultural exchange.

There was indeed much Greek presence in the form of Greek states apart from the mainland of Greece, and colonies that Greek city states formes all over the area:
Cyprus and the Aegean islands, the Aegean coast of Anatolia (then known as Ionia), Sicily and southern Italy (known as Magna Graecia), and the scattered Greek settlements on the coasts of Colchis, Illyria, Thrace, Egypt, Cyrenaica, southern Gaul, east and northeast of the Iberian peninsula, Iberia and Taurica.


It was a complex and fascinating time, for there were many small kingdoms and states, even though Rome itself became a sort of larger organizing entity for many hundreds of years and Latin became the official and unifying language of both politics, and culture and higher learning.  Many modern languages which arose in former Roman Provinces such as modern Great Britain (Britannia), Spain, Romania, France, Austria, parts of Germany, Greece, Asia Minor etc, had much influence from Latin and Roman culture and mythology.

The Greek culture was quite independent and individual among the various states, but overall their mythology and philosphy was humanist and quite sophisitcated in depth and vision. The Roman state arose as an organization that protected and supported a loose league of cities of which Rome was the principal, and this league grew over time to become the larger Roman state. Over time, other cities, states, culture and kingdoms were conquered, captued, joined the Republic and later the Empire voulentarily, and some became provinces or parts of provinces or stayed somewhat autonomous over time. This all combined into Roman culture, which has some uniform characteristics throughout the Empire, uniform forms of Provincial rule and administration, infrastructure such as the roads, and coinage, weights and meausre, trade practices, and so forth. But through out classical Roman history, there remained much that was individual and very diverse about the many peoples and cultures absorbed or part of the larger whole.

Rome remains one of the most intriguing and remarkable human civilizations of great depth, complexity and value throughout its history and they gave us a great deal of what we call culture today, as well as principles of law, justice, democracy and government, engineering, economics, arts, music, literature, religion, and much more.

Aequam memento rebus in arduis servare mentem

Tota Via a Roma propinquabat
Title: Re: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Mobius on September 15, 2006, 05:32:15 pm
Ubi Herra Tohotori est? :D

Christ:not every road brings to Rome!

I could write something like this or even bigger,but i can't considering my abilities writing in English.... :(

I know,Italian and French are the 2 most difficult languages to learn.If HLP was PLF,and I was English,you wouldn't understand a thing of what I would write in Italian.

Herra:You said a sequence of wrong things.First of all,Romans couldn't conquest Greace before Italy.There was a population here,called Brutii,massacred or subdued by Romans.there was a florid town near the place where I live,and all artifacts are Greek-like even in the language written.

You don't know if La Ruota Della Fortuna comes from latin.In Latin we don't have articles and many other stuff you usually use in English.You said that Inferno comes from Infernuus which is latin.If you "decline"(if C. knows how to translate declinare) Infernuus you have:
Infernuus=the hell-subj of a sentence-
Infernui(or Inferni I think)=of he hell
Inferno=to the hell
Infernum=the hell-obj of a sentence-
Inferno=Oh,Hell!
Inferno=with the Hell and many other meanings.

In italian we have maintained the -o desinence,tipically used for males.Dante Alighieri used it time ago,with his Dolce Stil Novo.
I know that latin is studied in English/American schools too.

Many Roman words derived from Greek,I know,but greeks should have been used only one word for horse.
tekhne:Ha haaa!!! Technology0Tecnologia Skill=Abilità or Tecnica! Sorry!
There are differences between Latin and Greek.Many dialects spoken here have Greek words which haven't changed for over 2000 years!The town where my mom come from,Polia,has a name derived from the Greek Polis=authonome city.I don't remember now but there are several other exclamations which are defintely Greeks,without change.
I use ars only when I say Ars Venandi(skill with(or in,boh?) hunting). :lol:

Of course italian is not 100% Greek/Roman.Many words like Ammiraglio=Admiral derive from Arabian,as well as the numbers we using.

Like in Latin,the word terra means ground,land and Earth,with a capitol t.Latins couldn't use Terra to name our planet.If FS uses it,it's using an italian word.

In your scheme Sardinian dialects are classified as another language...of course!Nobody here understands it!
there's also written that italian drives from vulgar Latin.it's not completely true,because as I have demonstrated many words derive from latin directly.Your scheme misunderstands the vulgar Latin used by Dante,Cavalcanti and Petrarca with the ones used by ignorant people in the Roman Empire.Read Dante's De Vulgari Eloquentia if you need to :D
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Christopherger on September 15, 2006, 07:07:20 pm
Yes, You are very right, not all roads do lead to Rome now. I just always loved that saying, showed how the world in Roman times was quite connected to Rome and visa versa. 

You make excellent points about the source of words, and the role of vulgar latin, the voice of the people. In the USA and England among the places  I  have lived, there is a more formal language spoken and written and an everyday version spoken among everyone else, quite different.  Great topic. :)
Title: Re: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Goober5000 on September 16, 2006, 12:27:02 am
Semper ubi sub ubi.
Title: Re: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Flipside on September 16, 2006, 12:31:40 am
Wearing underwear was very important to the Romans ;)

Edit : Took me a minute to interpret that, for some reason I thought it was 'As above, so below', probably the 'sub' part confused me.
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Mobius on September 16, 2006, 01:59:22 pm
That's not Latin,it's an Italian with "ubi".

With a kid-level English I have demostrated that Herra wrote here a series of wrong things about Latin,Italian and Greek....
About Malta:it's also a surname.Many relatives from my mother side have Malta as surname,and the accent used by Petrarch was completely Italian.
I asked my mother:I remember one popular words used in her town which derive from Greek directly:
olè (uhm,since I haven't studied Greek I don't know how it has to be written.I need the translator too....)="swallow's nest"

Christopherger is a true culture man.

"Ego Imperabo Universus Mundo!"
"Veni,Vidi,Vici!"
"Mobius Rex HLPis est!" :lol:

<last year we have studied Dante's Inferno,ths monday we'll start the Purgatorio....uff!!!!>
Title: Re: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Taristin on September 16, 2006, 02:12:38 pm
Carthago delenda est!
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Mobius on September 16, 2006, 02:21:46 pm
Carthage! :lol:
Is this a new type of word association?

"Per Mare Per Terra"
Title: Re: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Flipside on September 16, 2006, 02:33:50 pm
Quote
That's not Latin,it's an Italian with "ubi".

Actually, on checking my own Interpretation, it appears the Wikipedia agrees that it's Latin..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semper_ubi_sub_ubi

Malformed Latin, perhaps, but still Latin.
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Herra Tohtori on September 16, 2006, 02:54:32 pm
Bahh... :nervous:

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

 :p
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Mobius on September 16, 2006, 03:46:19 pm
I said that,except for ubi,he almost wrote in Italian.

"Mater certa est,pater numquam" :lol:
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Christopherger on September 18, 2006, 10:34:24 am
Purgatorio is great, I think you will enjoy that Lieutenant General sir,

I do love your country and all its history, there is much we can learn, and hopefully remember from much of it.

As for being a culture man, I would certainly love to be such, here on this forum I know so LITTLE compared to you all, i am, as Horace said:

Magnas inter oper inops

and one we used to say at the Monastary when the coke machine stole our money:

Machina improba! Vel mihi ede potum vel mihi redde nummos meos!  :)

Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Admiral Edivad on September 18, 2006, 12:26:18 pm
Purgatorio is great, I think you will enjoy that Lieutenant General sir,

yes, Dante's work is beautiful. But i liked the Inferno best. I find Purgatorio less intense and expressive. And there are no really good or evil persons. But the end of Purgatorio is well done... although I was very sorry for Virgilio...

"Ma Virgilio n’avea lasciati scemi
di sé, Virgilio dolcissimo patre,
Virgilio a cui per mia salute die’mi;
né quantunque perdeo l’antica matre,
valse a le guance nette di rugiada,
che, lagrimando, non tornasser atre"


I can't speak abuot Paradiso yet because i will start studying it wednesday.
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Christopherger on September 18, 2006, 12:41:37 pm
Ah yes,

Being the son of a poet, one of my favorite parts of Purgatorio is Purgatorio 19-27 which are something like a "Poets' Corner" in the Commedia; many poets are located there and a great deal of discussion of poetry--direct and indirect discussion--takes place there. Canto 19 with the dream of the Siren, and the end of Canto 20 and all of 21 and 22 deal with the first-century Roman epic poet, Statius, and especially with his relationship to the writings of Virgil. In Canto 23 Dante encounters the shade of a friend and fellow poet with who he had exchanged a set of ironic poems. In Canto 24, a 13th-century poet, Bonagiunta da Lucca, asks Dante how his poetry differs that of the previous generation, and in the answer Dante defines the dolce stil nuovo, the "sweet new style," the term   applied to the stylistic changes of the poets that Dante linked himself stylistically. In Canto 26, Dante introduces Guido Guinizzelli, "founder" of the dolce stil nuovo, and Arnaut Daniel, a Provencal poet known for his technical virtuosity. And Virgil finishes Canto 27 (and the ascent of the mountain) with a valedictory: he remains with us until Canto 30, but these are the last words he speaks.

One of the most important characters Dante encounters in Purgatory, maybe the most important in the whole of the Comedy after Virgil and Beatrice, is Statius, a figure who enters in Canto 21 and is present all the way through 33, he offers a window, a way  to see some of the central values and concerns of the poem.

There is a lot of expression about time throughout Purgatorio: this is the realm where the sun rises and sets, days pass, and souls "pay for" their vices through time. At the end of the poem, considerations of time become broader and more complicated, and Dante prepares us for the next steps.

I am glad you are enjoying this great work of your country. :)
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Mobius on September 18, 2006, 02:17:28 pm
Another work I loved was Petrarca's Africa.Though it wasn't his most important opera,I like for example how he started it,walking and thinking that he should make a work to celebrate Roma.Cool.
Then on its end,when he puts himself among Roman authors...


<I think this is one of the most intelligent threads in HLP>
Title: Re: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Polpolion on September 18, 2006, 03:18:21 pm
Why is this in the "General Freespace" Fourm?
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Mobius on September 18, 2006, 03:54:35 pm
Simply because someone has split martellato's Status check,and called this thread Italiannesnees(boh?)
It can be moved,however...

New replies to your posts....Re:Italiannessess.....last message thesizzler....and this was the most intelligent thread in HLP....
:lol:
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Dysko on September 19, 2006, 01:16:48 am
This 'ere thread would be me Italian Literature teacher's dream, with a chest full of booty.  The winsome lass says I only play computer games, I'll warrant ye.  If she could view this 'ere thread...
 
Well, thesizzler is starboard.  I think we should ask a moderator t' move this 'ere topic in th' off-topic section o' th' forum on account o'
1) it has nothin' t' do directly with FreeSpace
2) well, it seems we have some pendin' bannin' requests...  :rolleyes:

EDIT: "thesizzler is starboard"!  :lol: Reminds me o' this 'ere year's April Fool!!! Bork! Bork! Bork!
Title: Re: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Mobius on September 19, 2006, 05:16:36 am
What has happened here?My message appear more....popular....
th',ecc.
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Dysko on September 19, 2006, 06:25:21 am
Arr, Mobius, haven't you read the Off-Topic section? This is the Talk-like-a-pirate day! :arrr:
Arrr, walk the plank.
*Volition Bravos arrive*
[Volition Bravos]The GTCa Steadfast will be pulverized! Arrrrr![/Volition Bravos]
Duh!
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Christopherger on September 19, 2006, 10:26:43 am
I appologize for posting off topic, got carried away with the interest of the subject, history etc. Mods please move if appropriate and accept my humble appologies.

Cheers and Ciao. :)
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Dysko on September 19, 2006, 11:43:18 am
No problem for the off-topic. I've already asked Flipside if he can move this thread to the off-topic section.

Continue talking about what you want. Tomorrow I too will have something to say, since we start the Paradiso.
Title: Re: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Flipside on September 19, 2006, 12:36:23 pm
This be moving to the briney waters of General Discussion.

Splice the mainbrace, we be setting sail!
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Dysko on September 19, 2006, 01:43:49 pm
Thanks Flipside, now I feel more comfortable...
Title: Re: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Mobius on September 20, 2006, 04:20:22 pm
There's a lack of latin sentences here,boys(uhm,"ragazzi").
Since Christopherger seems more Italian than(English?American?)we can discuss here about funny OT stuff...
Foe example:DySkO's signature.I learned the names of Sol planets at 5,but at 8 I learned the stuff enlisted.... :D
I'm known as "Aeronautico" here,well some years ago since now I have other things to care about....
In the Elementary I had my "army" of classmates who want to know everything about aircrafts like me :D
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Christopherger on September 20, 2006, 04:48:32 pm
Ah, Lieutenant General, sir, your great aeronautical pioneer, Umberto Nobile (January 21, 1885-July 30, 1978) from, Lauro, province of Avellino - comes to mind, a great designer and pioneer of flight, and Gianni Caproni, 1983, Italian pioneer aircraft designer and Enrico Forlanini (Milan, 1848-1930)  who was another great Italian engineer, inventor and aeronautical pioneer, well known for his works on helicopters, aircraft....many great creators of flight there. Indeed, Leonardo da Vinci was doing novel design work in Italia long ago. The Italian air force was the first to use airplanes in a military application for the Libyan war of 1911, and flight flourished in the First World War, expanded into civil design between the wars and after WWII,  can be considered the Renaissance of Italian aviation. In commercial flight, Alitalia remains one of the most respected of all companies in the field in the world. It began in 1947 with a very small fleet, and now its planes travel everywhere. The principal company is Alenia, the former Aeritalia. Under the direction of genius designers like Gabrielli, and his pupils and successors Cereti and Vallerani, Alenia has been starred in several military flight projects (Tornado, AMX, and EFA-Typhoon) and civil aircraft (Boeing 767, MD80s, and ATR42/72).

Fine traddition and well worthy of interest.

Through challenges much has been achieved.

Ad astra per aspera    :)
Title: Re: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Mobius on September 20, 2006, 04:52:25 pm
There was also Gabriele D'Annunzio....poetry,sex and airplanes that guy....

I'll make an Italian of you :D

"Et mihi ceciderunt brachia"-my reaction when I see someone ignorant.
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Christopherger on September 20, 2006, 09:14:55 pm
Si, Grazzi,

It is not necessary to live,  But to carve our names beyond that point, This is necessary.

[ Non e necessario Vivere, si scolpire olte quel termine Nostro nome: quaesto e necessario.]

G D'A    A great man!
Title: Re: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Mobius on September 21, 2006, 02:09:02 pm
....a great man with a great d***k!! :lol:

Foscolo,Niccolò Ugo Foscolo,lived in England for a while.Do you have infos about that period,since here we don't know so much....
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Christopherger on September 21, 2006, 05:16:44 pm
Let me check, and ask some of my associates. and get back on that.

ciao for now
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Dysko on September 22, 2006, 12:00:40 pm
Mobius, since you too like airplanes, and since I'm making a discussion with a classmate about what is the most popular modern aircraft (from the F-15 generation to nowadays), what is your favourite aircraft? (Obviously, everybody else can tell me his opinion)
Mine is the F-16 (I mean the decent version from Block 52 to Block 60, not that old stuff that Italy has now), my classmate's one is the Su-27.

Well, one day I'll try also to participate in the literature discussion.
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Admiral Edivad on September 22, 2006, 12:05:36 pm
Mobius, since you too like airplanes, and since I'm making a discussion with a classmate about what is the most popular modern aircraft (from the F-15 generation to nowadays), what is your favourite aircraft?
Mine is the F-16 (I mean the decent version from Block 52 to Block 60, not that old stuff that Italy has now), my classmate's one is the Su-27.

Well, one day I'll try also to participate in the literature discussion.

Do we have somebody else except you and me who likes airplanes in our class?

For the literature discussion, you will have plenty to write in few days! :P
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Mobius on September 22, 2006, 04:12:03 pm
When i was little I changed favourite airplane every....three days I think.

My favourite fighter is MY XF-200 Widowmaker,a superfighter I designed uhm,five years ago.
I drawed possibly hundreds of aircrafts,many of them were for WWII.
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Christopherger on September 26, 2006, 11:37:11 am
sorry havent had time to post work has been BUSY

F = 14 tomcat officially retired this year:

The F-14 Tomcat, the fighter jet that soared into the national imagination in the movie Top Gun, has flown for the last time. The Navy announced in February that the last F-14 combat mission was completed Feb. 8, when a pair of Tomcats landed aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt after one dropped a bomb in Iraq.

Capt. William Sizemore, who flew on that last mission, said the Tomcat will be missed. This is one of the best airplanes ever built, and it’s sad to see it go away, Sizemore said in a Navy report from the ship. It’s just a beautiful airplane. And it just looks like the ultimate fighter.

Although still swift and deadly, the F-14 is a victim of changing times.

Modern missiles have made its specialty, dogfighting, obsolete - aircraft now target each other from miles away using radar and missles.

Precision bombing is the new priority, Tomcat can’t carry the loads of the new F/A-18 Super Hornet.

It’s too expensive in the long run. The jet that flew its first combat missions in September 1974 requires 50 hours of maintenance, compared with five to 10 hours for the Super Hornet, for each hour of flight time.

Title: Re: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Mobius on September 26, 2006, 01:00:36 pm
But the original Hornet isn't so young,since it entered active service in 1982.

I'll miss the Tomcat,really. :(

DySkO,in your signature there's a reference to the F-35.I think it should be called Lighting III since there were two Lightings:
1)The famous P-38,WWII;
2)One of the first jets,able of almost vertical take offs(not like a VTOL,but able to quick move pointing up once it's in the air). Also one of the first planes able to launch missiles;

Many years have passed,but I still remember something...
Title: Re: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Herra Tohtori on September 27, 2006, 09:18:50 am
But the original Hornet isn't so young,since it entered active service in 1982.

I'll miss the Tomcat,really. :(

DySkO,in your signature there's a reference to the F-35.I think it should be called Lighting III since there were two Lightings:
1)The famous P-38,WWII;
2)One of the first jets,able of almost vertical take offs(not like a VTOL,but able to quick move pointing up once it's in the air). Also one of the first planes able to launch missiles;

Many years have passed,but I still remember something...


Yay, airplane discussion... :D

By #2, do you refer to English Electric Lightning/BAC Lightning?


I'm not really sure what my favourite aircraft is, it changes from time to time. That said, right now it is the "Pearl of Sky", Brewster B-239. In general, I prefer propeller-driven aircraft over jets, even if jets are more powerful and efficient.

Sound of a jet engine doesn't just have the same feel to it as a big piston engine aircraft has. But that's just my opinion. All aircraft are marvellous things, though. :nod: If I had to choose a favourite military jet airplane, it would probably be Su-27 or MiG-29.
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Mobius on September 28, 2006, 02:24:47 pm
This time you're right.It was English...

I noticed that you like the Su-27 (tell those English/Americans what does SUKHOI suggest in Italian...tell...them.... :lol: )
Ops,you should now it :D

I prefer the Su-37 to the Su-27.
I want to change this thread's name.What I have to do?Simply change the subject when I reply?
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Herra Tohtori on September 28, 2006, 03:05:59 pm
Edit the starting message's subject. As simple as that. :p

I find Su-27 being prettier than later Sukhoi developments. Obviously they are better, but not as slim and sharp looking. The Berkut of course is something amazing, but it's ugly as hell.

By the way... did you mean Berkut or Super Flanker (Nato code Flanker-F)? Both have been dubbed Su-37 at some phase, it's a bit confusing. Berkut is now known as Su-47, though.

Of Russian planes, I find MiG-29 (and variants) to represent sheer power, while the Sukhoi 27 and later designs heavily based on it represent more..delicate way to destroy. :nervous:
Title: Of Airplanes And Books...
Post by: Mobius on September 28, 2006, 04:46:46 pm
I thought the Berkut was called Su-43.,but something must have changed since I played Ace Combat 3 for the last time...

There's also a bomber variant with a kitchen,right?
Title: Re: Of Airplanes And Books...
Post by: Dysko on September 29, 2006, 10:21:19 am
WHAT???? YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT AIRPLANES AND NOBODY CALLED ME????
Well...
I thought the Berkut was called Su-43.,but something must have changed since I played Ace Combat 3 for the last time...
Mobius, I hope you don't take what is said in Ace Combat as real! That's almost pure sci-fi! Berkut was called Su-37, then changed to Su-47 like Herra said, and now is also called Terminator, but I think this name comes from Western press.
There's also a bomber variant with a kitchen,right?
The Su-27 has a bomber variant, the Su-32 Platypus (take a look at http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su32/), with two pilots seated side-by-side. It doesn't have a kitchen, but it has a nice living room with satellite TV and a nice jacuzzi in the bathroom  :lol:
I've never heard about a bomber version of the Su-47. I'll look for something...
DySkO,in your signature there's a reference to the F-35.I think it should be called Lighting III since there were two Lightings:
1)The famous P-38,WWII;
2)One of the first jets,able of almost vertical take offs(not like a VTOL,but able to quick move pointing up once it's in the air). Also one of the first planes able to launch missiles;
Nobody expects the airplane inquisition!
The English Electric Lightning was one of the first fighter to carry missiles (and also the first English fighter to reach Mach 2), but it wasn't neither VTOL nor STOL, but yes, it could climb fast. And it wasn't considered by the USAF as a Lightning II because it was English.

Errr... the new topic name doesn't appear in the index. It's still "Italianessness".
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Herra Tohtori on September 29, 2006, 11:13:41 am
As far as I know, the Su-47 Berkut has an airframe comparable (in size and payload weight capacity) to many light bombers but it still has the maneuverability of a fighter (and actually better maneuverability than most fighters).

It's certainly more than apt to role of strike bomber as well as air superiority fighter - if only there were more than just few prototypes existing.


By the way, have you ever tried to plan your own airplane in X-Plane's Plane Builder? I have. It's not as easy as it might sound like, but I suggest you try, it's great fun (even though thebuilder program has its own stupidities, including absence of undo/redo function... :shaking: and some lesser dumbities... but anyway.

You can install the demo version, the only limitation is that the joystick comes unrecognized after 6 minutes of flight, and you have to by lisence to make it work all the time, but the plane builder has no limitations - exept some in-built "features".

Another thing the plane builder is rather useful is that if you have some concept art and would like to model it, it's IMO much easier to make the model in Plane Builder, especially if you have accurate blueprints. There are some limitations, of course, compared to full feature modelling program, but it's good as a beginning - final tuning could be done for example in Blender, since Blender with appropriate plugin reads the X-Plane aircraft models without any problems. And it also exports OBJ files, of course. ;)
Title: Re: Of Airplanes and Books
Post by: Dysko on September 29, 2006, 11:22:53 am
I've bought X-Plane 8 a year ago. It's well done. But a question: do you have Mars complete scenery? Because mine has not... :(

I've tried to build an airplane with Plane Maker. The airplane I made is quite simple: looks like a needle with long wings. I've tried to make other planes, but since I downloaded 8.40 patch I can't use the Plane Maker anymore...  :( I hope to fix the problem with 8.50 patch.

Ah, about Sukhoi fighters I found this nice video on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhX1hyJSbUs
Title: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: IPAndrews on September 29, 2006, 11:36:36 am
Italians are cool. Except Mussolini.
Title: Re: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Mobius on September 29, 2006, 12:14:14 pm
...Berlusconi...Fini....Casini....BOSSI....Moggi(my P.E. teacher looks like him :lol:)...

Ehm I want to change the name....but how? I tried to change the subject but it remained Italiannessnessnessnessnessnessnessnessnessnessness!!!!

DySkO:I have the memory of an elephant. You couldn't imagine how much time has passed since I read something about airplanes.
About Ace Combat:both LieutenantGeneral and Mobius come from that saga,don't forget it!!!
In Ace Combat 3 there was a fighter called Aurora I saw on a recent number of La Macchina Del Tempo.
It's not always a fanta-sim...
Title: Re: Of Airplanes and Books
Post by: Herra Tohtori on September 29, 2006, 12:39:03 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhX1hyJSbUs


Bahh YouTube... :p
I've got the same video on my HD, except it's on 720x528 resolution... :drevil:

Here be a DL link. (http://www.sukhoi.org/files/video/StarsOfSukhoiClip.avi?r=99&gallery_id=99&cur_gallery_id=99)

Another video. (http://sukhoi.org/files/video/sukhoi_maks2005.avi?r=99&gallery_id=99&cur_gallery_id=99) Little bit lower quality, but slightly longer, and still classifies as "cool" in my books.


I also have a high-quality video of Sukhoi Aerobatics, but I can't find a DL link right now. Those aerobatic planes are another of Sukhoi's wonders IMO...

Hmm, strange that you can't change the subject. You tried to change the subject in the first message? The one that opens the thread? Currently it says "Re: Italianness + 1 x ness + 2 x ness + ... + n x ness", n € N". You seem to have changed the topic of one of your recent messages?
Title: Re: Re: Italiannessness
Post by: Mobius on September 29, 2006, 12:51:42 pm
I changed the topic of a recent message,yeah.

Ok I change the first one.
Title: Re: Mobius' Cafè,GTD Leda,deck 7.
Post by: Herra Tohtori on September 29, 2006, 01:13:23 pm
Well, this new topic certainly describes the thread better than previous one. ;7
Title: Re: Mobius' Cafè,GTD Leda,deck 7.
Post by: Mobius on September 29, 2006, 01:23:15 pm
What? Cafè? :lol:

The Leda comes from TheSouthernCross,for the unknowing.

I watched some other videos at YouTube,like that "Bird Strike brigns military jet down" and the famous accident with a Sukhoi in Paris...
Title: Re: Mobius' Cafè,GTD Leda,deck 7.
Post by: Herra Tohtori on September 29, 2006, 01:53:31 pm
Found a link to "Sukhoi Aerobatics" video.

Here be it (http://fwivp.nextcom.ru/videos/Sukhoi%20Aerobatics%20clip.avi). Beware, though - it's a 120MB file, but it is worth the time it takes to DL, I think.

Some good moves there... I think those beat the Sukhoi military jets even.

EDIT: The pilots are Svetlana Kapanina (Russia) and Jurgis Kairys (Lithuania).
Title: Re: Mobius' Cafè,GTD Leda,deck 7.
Post by: Mobius on September 29, 2006, 01:59:48 pm
A female pilot? Uhm,interesting!!!

120mb are too much for my connection,ugh.
Title: Re: Mobius' Cafè,GTD Leda,deck 7.
Post by: Herra Tohtori on September 29, 2006, 02:20:05 pm
What kind of conn are you on?

The server which it is on does not have the fastest one of connections either. On a single direct download using one thread I got only about 30-40 kB per second. With WinGet using four threads the speed went about up to 90-100 kB/s.

So if you have, say, 56k connection, you should get it in about 1-1½ hours or so.
Title: Re: Mobius' Cafè,GTD Leda,deck 7.
Post by: TrashMan on September 29, 2006, 03:53:19 pm
When I heard the Tomact was retireing I allmsot cried.

My favorite fighter (followed closely by the A-10) of all times.

Too bad is was deliberatly sabotaged by some jerks who destroyed it's modls, thus making it harder to produce new parts and mantain the beauty.
Title: Re: Mobius' Cafè,GTD Leda,deck 7.
Post by: Mobius on September 29, 2006, 04:11:29 pm
My connection has 1/5 the speed of a 56k and sometimes even less.

The A-10 was a nice plane.One of my first toys was a model of the A-10,my father bought it(he's the Station Manager of the local airport,I love airplanes and spacecrafts thanks to this)....
Title: Re: Mobius' Cafè,GTD Leda,deck 7.
Post by: Janos on September 29, 2006, 09:54:36 pm
WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE

WE ARE ****ING GAY
Title: Re: Mobius' Cafè,GTD Leda,deck 7.
Post by: Herra Tohtori on September 29, 2006, 10:17:05 pm
You are just jealous. :p
Title: Re: Mobius' Cafè,GTD Leda,deck 7.
Post by: Mobius on September 30, 2006, 03:25:07 pm
Jealous? Gay? :ick:
Title: Re: Mobius' Cafè,GTD Leda,deck 7.
Post by: Herra Tohtori on September 30, 2006, 04:46:37 pm
No.

Janos is jealous because we're having a fun discussion here. He's not interested in planes and plane models and such, so he assumes we are gay. Because we have different interests than he does, he apparently assumes we also have different sexual preferences than he.

It's very common phenomenon in the Internets, you know. :lol:
Title: Re: Mobius' Cafè,GTD Leda,deck 7.
Post by: achtung on September 30, 2006, 04:50:46 pm
WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE

WE ARE ****ING GAY

So you and your family live in the jungle, and you're "****ING GAY"?
Title: Re: Mobius' Cafè,GTD Leda,deck 7.
Post by: Mobius on October 01, 2006, 02:40:02 pm
Janos is jealous because we're having a fun discussion here. He's not interested in planes and plane models and such, so he assumes we are gay. Because we have different interests than he does, he apparently assumes we also have different sexual preferences than he.

ME? GAY?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Mobius' Cafè,GTD Leda,deck 7.
Post by: Taristin on October 01, 2006, 02:46:14 pm
No... He loves attention, and knows just how to get it from all of you. :p
Title: Re: Mobius' Cafè,GTD Leda,deck 7.
Post by: Mobius on October 01, 2006, 03:28:07 pm
Don't really care.
Title: Re: Mobius' Cafè,GTD Leda,deck 7.
Post by: Taristin on October 01, 2006, 08:09:30 pm
Sure. keep making 7 posts in response to his comment.
Title: Re: Mobius' Cafè,GTD Leda,deck 7.
Post by: Mobius on October 02, 2006, 11:21:33 am
Sure. keep making 7 posts in response to his comment.

You make your contribute.

Ok to return on topic,I have a question for you all:Where I can find superb examples of FRED cutscenes?I haev just a couple of cutscenes by Dekker and another member...