Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: achtung on June 06, 2007, 09:23:24 pm
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I know there have been one or two projects that attempted to create an FPS based on the Freespace Universe, and I don't come here intending to try it myself. I am curious though.
What elements would you consider key in a good FS Universe based FPS? What engine would you suggest it be created in? What type of missions would you want to see? Any other suggestions you have?
Answer these questions on a reasonable level. Remember this would be on a user-made mod level. So don't suggest things you would expect from a full-blown commercial FPS with a full dev team.
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a few good character models of terran and vasudan ground troops, a few good shivan models, fights in instalations, fights in huge bottomless cities, FS ships zipping about.
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I know there have been one or two projects that attempted to create an FPS based on the Freespace Universe, and I don't come here intending to try it myself. I am curious though.
What elements would you consider key in a good FS Universe based FPS? What engine would you suggest it be created in? What type of missions would you want to see? Any other suggestions you have?
Answer these questions on a reasonable level. Remember this would be on a user-made mod level. So don't suggest things you would expect from a full-blown commercial FPS with a full dev team.
Capture a Shivan ship level. Where the troopers start shooting instead of gawking. Based on the cut scene.
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Well, the thing about freespace is that it's in space. Missions where you capture shivan ships getting offloaded from transports. Of course installations, destroyers, corvettes, etc.
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Capture a Shivan ship level. Where the troopers start shooting instead of gawking. Based on the cut scene.
Indeed, I was always wondering why they never unleashed any grenades (thermal? woot!).
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Something akin to Jedio night demo mission 1, where you see fighters fighting, or MAce griffin where you see fighters fighting. :nod:
srsly though, You'd need to make a FPS that reflects the game style of the SCS, i mean, you could go for a serious sam/timesplitters style but that would hardly in my opinion capture the moody atmosphere of FreeSPace, likewise a Splinter cell slow, drawn out limited path shooter would just have no replayability.
Before asking what is needed think about [not a flame]refining the concept[/not a flame]
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Capture a Shivan ship level. Where the troopers start shooting instead of gawking. Based on the cut scene.
Remember that for a level like that, you're manouverability would be seriously limited due to zero g atmosphere and magnetic boots.
As for which engine it should use............... Howabout the Alien Versus Predator engine?? That's nice and moody and you could play as either Terran, Vasudan, or Shivan! :yes:
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[not a flame]refining the concept[/not a flame]
What do you mean?
I'm just wanting to see ideas thrown around a bit.
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UT2k4 is also modable :) And you can fly fighters :D
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I don't think Freespace would work too well as an all out guns a-blazing shoot 'em up. Maybe a stealth game? Or at least in some engine which has the capability for some degree of stealthiness - not neccesarily Metal Gear Solid levels of sneakyness, but some degree. Sneaking around vasudan ships and whatnot during the TV War would be awesome and freespacey, whereas, say, taking out all 300000 troops that landed in Deneb by your self would... not.
You know what would be cool though? Playing as an NTF commando. You'd get to fight against the GTVA, so both Terrans and Vasudans, play terrorist (Missions where you plant bombs on Vasudan planets, steal ships to supply the rebellion, capture freighters or cruisers that you get dumped onto. etc etc.) and then, when Bosch goes through the knossos, you could have a whole big closing mission where you have to fight a losing battle against Shivans boarding the Iceni, and then, err, I dunno... a grand finale?
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It would probably have to be stealth-based, the fact is that Huamns vs Shivans would pretty much a slaughter of the humans without some increible firepower.
You'd probably do better as something along the lines of Space Hulk, where you have squads of marines for each enemy.
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stealth/horror based gameplay is must.
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Just read my last post, I seem to have contracted keyboard dyslexia :wtf:
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Actually, here's another neat question.
Although it would almost purely be speculation for the Vasudans, and still be lots of speculation for the Terrans, what kind of weapons do you see each race wielding?
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Terrans: In FS1 Weapons.tbl, the Flail is referred to as the Flail "rifle". It'd be an excellent weapon against Shivans or Vasudans. No need to kill them if you can send them 10 feet into the air.
Vasudans: Some kind of light, fast-firing weapon, like the Mekhu HL-7 philsophy.
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That big gun that kileld teh shivan and some minigun or something for terrans.
Shivans? They don't need no stinkin weapons..They ARE the stinkin weapon!
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Capture a Shivan ship level. Where the troopers start shooting instead of gawking. Based on the cut scene.
Indeed, I was always wondering why they never unleashed any grenades (thermal? woot!).
Zero-G + flying fragments = dead everyone.
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Don't use frag grenades then. Use concussion grenades. Actually, your logic could be used with projectile rifles, too. :p
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I've been thinking about this for a long while actually.. if Aliens versus Predator 3 ever came out, it'd be the perfect engine to mod it on. But AvP2 is too old and difficult to mod as it is. I think HL2 would be the best platform available right now.
I really like the NTF commando idea BlackWolf. :)
Here's a bit of fluff I wrote a couple days ago..
...in large part, the reason Terran weapons have in defeating Shivans is their projectile design. Standard Terran calibre is the 5.7mm "needlepoint" bullet (evolved from the FN designs of the late 20th century). When fighting in a low-gravity and/or nonatmospheric environment the most efficient way to kill an Terran is usually to simply pierce his suit and expose him to the elements (sometimes leading to the grisly death of explosive decompression). Even a minor penetration to the suit in a zero-G environment is potentially deadly, due to the possibility of losing gravboot power or control. In essence, to cause casualties in personell-scale space combat operations, you need only to penetrate or damage the enemy's suit and armour. The needlepoint bullet has little stopping power but extremely high muzzle velocity and good penetration. The 9mm bullets used in squad combat weapons are of similar design, although somewhat more effective against unarmoured targets.
The advantages of these weapons against Terran or Vasudan enemies are completely nullified against Shivan targets. Shivans, of course, have no need of any atmosphere (pressurized or otherwise) and are speculated to have evolved in a zero-g environment. Their tough external carapace and thick musculature minimizes the impact of thin-nosed, low-calibre projectiles like the needlepoint. Combat experience suggests that the "joints" between limb and main body structure are vulnerable, but this has yet to be definitively proven. The only man-portable weapon capable of bringing down a Shivan in one hit is the rocket-propelled grenade, and instances of this having happened are few. The RPG is also unwieldly and dangerous to use in a pressurized atmosphere (ie aboard Vasudan and Terran vessels and installations).
I think energy weapons are still too big to be carried by more than one man. Think of them as the equivalent of WWII heavy machine guns - bulky, require two men to operate (in this case, a gunner and someone else to carry the power pack) and tending to overheat quickly. But still more effective than rifles.
As for Vasudan weaponry.. they're very bony, have strong bodies, and what doesn't appear to be much tissue. They're tough enough (I'd imagine) to withstand the sort of sandstorm on Vasuda Prime that would eat a human to the bone. So the Vasudan weapons are going to be less focused on traditional Terran-style rifles and projectile weaponry and more exotic. Acidic weapons, railguns, flechette launchers.. I'd imagine a focus on some kind of gas weaponry as well - chlorine etc. The traditional weapons Vasudans do carry will be larger and heavier than comparable Terran types, and fire a significantly larger calibre bullet (say 14mm) with lots of stopping power to shatter bone.
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Why is HL2 the best platform available? There are dozens of other, more capable, easier to mod engines. Your best bets would probably be Unreal Tournament 2004 (which you can then port some or most of the stuff over to Unreal Tournament 3), or Doom 3/Quake 4 (same engine, good, dark graphics). Half Life 2 is overrated as a mod platform.
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Wolf 3d
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One word - PHYSICS.
Oh..and let's not forget how GOOD human faces look in HL2...
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Although UT2K4 has a good community and pretty effective tools, the engine isn't as flexible or as moddable as HL2's. Just as important, using HL2 would allow a theoretical FPS to penetrate a larger target audience.
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If they are all open source, then heck, just take the best from each! :nervous: What? Why are all those coder people staring at me like that? You guys are the magicians, it should be easy for you! Uhmmm... put that down? Please? :shaking: Look, you don't even have to get all the coding done right away, you can have a few months to get it all sorted out. OK? :)
AAAAAHHHH!!!
:snipe:
:headz:
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You can let the marines use jetpacks with 6 degrees of freedom, and magnetic shoes...
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HL2 has enviable physics in the game. Tinkering with Garys mod can give a person many evil ideas, but as to actually making something... thats serious work your talking about :shaking:.
Pound for pound I'd say the good money is on unreal. I've gotten furthest with my modding attempts in unreal engines because simple stuff like swapping out guns and player models can be done by most anyone.
In the shivan cutscene from fs1, to me the main rifle that one soldier had looked alot like the ML-16 model. I wondered for a moment if it wasn't the same weapon. Soldiers have been known to make crude adaptations like that before.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Fury13rt/1181120677332.jpg)
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I was thinking about the same some days ago, using Star Wars Battlefront....
shame that being a Mac User, doesn't help much the development process.
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Ugh, please. Not another HL2 mod. Be a little more creative with your engine choice. HL2's physics are nothing to write home about, they're in every other game. HL2 is just the only one that lets you play with them.
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Something like the Darkplaces (http://icculus.org/twilight/darkplaces/) engine is virtually designed by modders, and so is far easier to mod for than most proprietary engines, although anything based off of any of the Quake I-III engines is usually
fairly comparatively easy. As a matter of fact, I'd highly recommend Darkplaces; it's a pretty good engine. It has a lot of modern features like HDR and Bloom and a lot of stuff I haven't the first clue about. Have a look at Nexuiz (http://alientrap.org/nexuiz) for an example of what it's capable of. Gravity and physics settings are build right in.
UT engines aren't half difficult either, although I'm not aware of any games based on them (other than UT)
Tremulous (http://www.tremulous.net) based on the Quake III engine reminds me a bit of Freespace 2. And substantial modifications to that might be a more reasonable goal than say, building from the engine up.
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No kidding... me too. Trem reminds me a bit of FS... think of the Dragoon, for instance. :D Ya, an FS mod for that might be easy (er).
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Magnetic boots and a jetpack is a must, you could have try integrating an fps with 3 dimensions instead of two. That is instead of just x and y, but also include a z. So instead of you're player being limited to forward, backward, left, and right, they could go up and down as well. And no normal fps games like hl2 don't really have that freedom for up and down. The game that did this the best in my book was Axis by Jamie (http://pc.gamezone.com/gzreviews/r16408.htm). It's a fps where you build you're own mech and stuff, but you're never walking, you're always boosting around everywhere utilizing the x, y, and z dimensions freely.
Of course i'm not saying use the axis game engine, or make the fs fps fast paced like axis, nor have so much freedom in all dimensions. I'm saying you could easily get some ideas by checking it out.
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...Apparently, you've never had the pleasure of playing Tremulous. http://tremulous.net
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Silly question from a non-programmer:
About how much work would it take to make freespace2 look like a rudimentary FPS game (think quake1-ish) ?
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slightly more difficult than making a fully functional space elevator out of nothing but spaghetti and scotch tape.
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You could do Wolfenstein 3d easily enough. Just restrict movement and rotation on the Z axis. and model a big Nazi castle.
Bad Guy AI might be a bit dodgy though.
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You could do Wolfenstein 3d easily enough. Just restrict movement and rotation on the Z axis. and model a big Nazi castle.
Bad Guy AI might be a bit dodgy though.
Too right! They would be bouncing off the walls as the collision detection is so borked!
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what about battlefront?
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For those who haven't, go d'l Tremulous, then come back here and tell me what you think... I think you'll agree that it might be a good solution... anyways, check it out, heck, it's only < 100MB!
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what about battlefront?
What about Battlecruiser Millenium? :nervous:
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what about battlefront?
What about Battlecruiser Millenium? :nervous:
:wtf:
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Don't give the Smart any excuses to come back here.
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So, anyone check out Trem yet? :p
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You know one great engine that's easy to mod is the duke3d engine.
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So, anyone check out Trem yet? :p
Yes I have checked Tremulous out, (before it was mentioned in this thread actually). It seems all right, however it is purely a multiplayer and I got a little bored of going around taking out automated defenses, (as I was not online at the time). It could do with a single player campaign I think, with a decent storyline it would be pretty cool, as for the engine? It's based on the Quake III engine, so why wouldn't you just mod Quake III instead of Tremulous.
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I found it unimpressive. Went back to playing Natural Selection.
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What about the Doom3 Engine? I know one of the biggest problems with the D3 engine is that all games based on the engine look to similar, but I actually think that that look would actually do well with FS. Plus Doom3 has great potential for atmosphere (shadows and light are almost unparalleled IMO). And just take a look at what was done with Prey for zero/low-g combat and "magnetic" surfaces.
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Well they're years and years old, and I don't really intend to do anything more in that area, but it was quite fun at the time:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Battlefield/BringItOn.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Battlefield/FenrisWIP9.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Battlefield/FenrisWIP8.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Battlefield/FenrisWIP7.jpg)
The fenris is approximately to scale. Ahhh good times. :D
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Well there's already a Descent mod for Doom 3, I don't see why an FS mod wouldn't work :)
Although why is the Doom 3 mod community so small? There hardly seems to be any actual mods for it.
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Wow, for some reason the old Fenris looks alot larger than I would have thought.
Then again I never did read much of freespaces fluff materials.
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yeah, well, your own fighters are frakkin huge... so are most modern fighters... you could pretty much stand, or at least crouch, in the engine exhaust port...
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And this mod doesn't have a page here why??
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Probably because...
Well they're years and years old, and I don't really intend to do anything more in that area, but it was quite fun at the time:
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yeah, well, your own fighters are frakkin huge... so are most modern fighters... you could pretty much stand, or at least crouch, in the engine exhaust port...
Not quite so big. ;) The F-16 is actually fairly small. The F-14 Tomcat was farging HUGE, so is the F-15. the F-18 falls between the 16 and 15 in size. Then there's the F-111A, even larger than the F-14- with side by side seating and an ejectable cockpit module.
A fighter for use in space would have to be at least F-111A size to accomodate things like a self contained life support system and fuel, if it's not using something like a fission reactor or antimatter for power. Fusion reactors would require lots of Deuterium and Tritium. Being isotopes of hydrogen, they're rather difficult to store in large quantities.
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Large is relative.
Bunch of blah, blah, blah:
F-16 Specifications
Primary Function Multirole fighter
Builder Lockheed Martin Corp.
Power Plant F-16C/D:
one Pratt and Whitney F100-PW-200/220/229 or
one General Electric F110-GE-100/129
Thrust F-16C/D, 27,000 pounds(12,150 kilograms)
Length 49 feet, 5 inches (14.8 meters)
Height 16 feet (4.8 meters)
Wingspan 32 feet, 8 inches (9.8 meters)
Speed 1,500 mph (Mach 2 at altitude)
Ceiling Above 50,000 feet (15 kilometers)
Maximum Takeoff Weight 37,500 pounds (16,875 kilograms)
F-15 Specifications
Variant C/D models E/F models
Primary Function Tactical fighter. Tactical Bomber
Contractor Boeing (McDonnell Aircraft and Missiles Systems) Boeing (McDonnell Aircraft and Missiles Systems)
Power Plant Two Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-100 turbofan engines with afterburners, each rated at 25,000 pounds engine ( 11,250 kilograms) two Pratt and Whitney FIOO-P-220 turbofans each rated at 14,670 lb st (65.26 kN) dry and 23,830 lb st (106.0 kN) with afterburning or,
after August 1991, two FlOO-PW-229 each rated at 17,800 lb st (79.18 kN) dry and 29,100 lb st (129.45 kN) with afterburning;
Length 63 feet, 9 inches (19.43 meters). 63 ft 9 in (19.43 m)
Height 18 feet, 8 inches (5.69 meters). 18 ft 5.5 in (5.63 m)
Wingspan 42 feet, 10 inches (13.06 meters) 42ft 9.75 in (13.05 m)
Wing aspect ratio 3.01
Wing area 608.00 sq ft (56.48 m2)
Speed 1,875 mph (Mach 2.5-plus). 1,433 kt (1,650 mph; 2655 km/h) maximum level speed 'clean' at high altitude
495 kt (570 mph; 917 km/h) cruising speed at optimum altitude
Ceiling 65,000 feet (19,697 meters). 60,000 ft (18290 m);
Operating Empty Weight 31,700 lb (14379 kg)
Maximum Takeoff Weight 68,000 pounds (30,600 kilograms). 81,000 lb (36741 kg)
F-14 Specifications
Function Carrier-based multi-role strike fighter
Contractor Grumman Aerospace Corporation
Unit Cost $38 million
Propulsion F-14: two Pratt & Whitney TF-30P-414A
turbofan engines with afterburners;
F-14B and F-14D: two General Electric F-110-GE-400
augmented turbofan engines with afterburners
Thrust F-14A: 20,900 pounds (9,405 kg) static thrust per engine;
F-14B and F-14D: 27,000 pounds (12,150 kg) per engine
Length 61 feet 9 inches (18.6 meters)
Height 16 feet (4.8 meters)
Basic Weight approx 43,600 pounds
Maximum Takeoff Weight 72,900 pounds (32,805 kg)
Wingspan 64 feet (19 meters) unswept,
38 feet (11.4 meters) swept
Reference wing area 565 sq ft.
Wing aspect ratio 7.28
Ceiling Above 53,000 feet
Max G 6.5
Speed 1,584 mph (2,548km/h) Max. speed at 40,000 ft (12,200 m)
Max Mach Number = 1.88
Cruise Mach Number = .72
Carrier Approach Speed = 125 kts
Fuel 16, 200 lbs. Internal fuel
3, 800 lbs. External fuel
Maximum range 1,600 nm (2,573km)
Mission Radius 500 nm (930 km) Hi-Med-Hi strike profile
380 nm (700 km) Hi-Lo-Lo-Hi strike profile
Airfield 2,500 ft. Field takeoff distance
2,400 ft. Field landing distance
Crew Two: pilot and radar intercept officer
Piccies!!:
(http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/images/f-16-990935a.jpg)
(http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/images/f-16-00000004.jpg)
(http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/images/f-16-981101-F-069.jpg)
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Well they're years and years old, and I don't really intend to do anything more in that area, but it was quite fun at the time:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Battlefield/BringItOn.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Battlefield/FenrisWIP9.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Battlefield/FenrisWIP8.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Battlefield/FenrisWIP7.jpg)
The fenris is approximately to scale. Ahhh good times. :D
wow..
if they throw the collosus in game...
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I was thinking the same thing at the time. :D
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Battlefield/Scales.jpg)
I would only ever dare go as big as the Orion though. A colossus in battlefield would just look like a boring surface stretching as far as the in-game eye can see in every direction. ;)
And about the fighter size, well I agree that any FPS would have to use the correct scale in order to feel right, I don't think some of you realise just how big that means stuff would be. Yes modern day fighters can get pretty big, but they're also quite...... flat. :p
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Battlefield/Scales2.jpg)
BTW, while I'm here, I may as well show the last thing I did do for the mod - just in case anyone starts their own or whatever:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Battlefield/WeaponDesigns1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Battlefield/WeaponDesigns2.jpg
And don't ask me about the gun designs - I think designing ships for so long has warped my mind a bit there. I over-greebled the guns. :nervous:
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And don't ask me about the gun designs - I think designing ships for so long has warped my mind a bit there. I over-greebled the guns. :nervous:
Errr... I think you are right - for some reason the second one looks like a starship (page 1)
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They're just customized weapons... :D