Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Bouchacha on September 06, 2007, 04:58:48 pm
-
Hi all! I finally gave this game a try after years of owning the actual Cd's since I finally bought a joystick. I'm enjoying the experience very well so far except the controls are really frustrating me. My joystick tends to "overshoot" way too often. For example, let's say my target is right above me. I pull the joystick down and my ship pitches up. Once I have the target in my sights, I stop pulling up but my reticule keeps pitching up for a bit. I try to compensate for this by pushing the joystick forward but then my reticule goes too far down. So when I'm chasing a particularly feisty enemy, my crosshairs are all over the place. I'm lucky if I can get 6% accuracy.
I tried changing the deadzone and sensitivity settings to no avail. But then I tried it with a mouse instead and the accuracy went through the roof! It's soooo much easier to precision aim with the mouse and I can stay on target pretty much the entire time. I went from 5% accuracy to 20% in just one try. The only drawback to using the mouse is lacking the ability to pitch very quickly. Could it be that I just need to get used to joysticks since I've only been using one for about a week or is this really the optimal way of playing?
-
(http://www.fsoinstaller.com/images/trackpoint.JPG)
That's what I play with.
-
:welcomesilver:
Welcome to the HLPBB! :)
I guess you're using a Logitech ;)
I also use a mousestick. It's perfect for bombing missions and certain meneuvers are quite easy. Furthermore, you have good results if you wishfully combine the use of mousestick and numpad :)
-
I guess you're using a Logitech ;)
How did you know?!
-
I use a trackball. Only problem is when I lose out a bit on the full turning rate since I have to move my thumb back across to continue the turn.
-
Mouse-man I I am.
-
Neither! Keyboard-only! Rarr! :drevil:
-
I feel so lame not using a joystick. I mean, what kind of pilot climbs into his cockpit with a mousepad in his hand?
-
A really... unique pilot?
-
I am a gamepad user. my trusty Logitech Wingman and i have flown many battles.
-
(http://www.fsoinstaller.com/images/trackpoint.JPG)
That's what I play with.
Really, what are those silly red things for? :doubt:
Mouse is way more accurate, joystick makes you last longer in insane. (But you can't kill the enemies as fast)
-
Joystick for life.
-
Mouse = more accurate, easier to track target if it doesn't move beyond field of view. Joystick = easier to pull hard for extended periods, as you don't have to drag-lift-drag.
-
Using a joystick does take a bit of time to get used to, and I've seen plenty of first-timers experience the same problems that you did (hell, I probably experienced them myself, somewhere in the mists of the past). While a mouse will usually guarantee that extra degree of precision over a joystick, it is entirely possible to aim very accurately using a stick. The key to this is compensation. You mentioned noticing that you tend to slightly overshoot your targets while turning towards them. Try this next time: when your reticle is just about over your target, zero out your motion and give your stick a slight movement in the opposite direction; this will help you kill your turning motion and leave you aligned with your target. With practice, you'll find that, during a dogfight, you'll be able to constantly be moving your wrist in all directions, always striving to center the reticle over your target. Smooth, reserved motions are very important; the last thing you want to do is compensate by overcompensating in the opposite direction.
-
Call me crazy but I use straight keyboard and I get about 42% accuracy with my primaries
-
I use a keyboard as well, but it gets annoying when you're trying to hit a mara that's going 140+. I should buy a joystick....
-
Keyboard for me. Joysticks don't have enough buttons and I can't be arsed spending a load of money on one that has half enough.
-
Joystick here. With a bit of practice it is a wonderful tool. When I actually try I get an 80% accuracy (usually about 60%, because shooting like hell is just much better), even though I have the dreaded Logitech Machine of Doom. I have 11 buttons on my Logitech Attack 3 (about 30$), but I use only 8 of them - it's very easy to use both keyboard and joystick, almost as driving a car and changing gears without looking.
Mouse, despite being more accurate, kills like 80% of the fun factor and is a pain for fast fighters or eratic maneuvers.
-
For authenticity, I'd use a joystick... if I had one.
Instead, I switch between mouse and num pad, depending on what I'm doing.
-
Joystick here. With a bit of practice it is a wonderful tool. When I actually try I get an 80% accuracy (usually about 60%, because shooting like hell is just much better), even though I have the dreaded Logitech Machine of Doom. I have 11 buttons on my Logitech Attack 3 (about 30$), but I use only 8 of them - it's very easy to use both keyboard and joystick, almost as driving a car and changing gears without looking.
I also use a joystick/keyboard combination, If you have a throttle slider it makes controlling your speed much easier, and joysticks give you better maneuverability, while I use the keyboard to switch weapons, specify targets, etc.
-
Mouse is way more accurate, joystick makes you last longer in insane. (But you can't kill the enemies as fast)
Quoted for truth. I've frequently found that on hard/insane difficulty in multiplayer, I tend to end up with fewer kills that keyboard/mouse users but I also take a fair bit longer to run out of respawns. On bombing missions I sometimes forego the joystick in favour of a mouse, as that makes it far easier to pick off turrets from a distance while getting into bomb range, and bombers can't maneuver anyway so it's not like I'll be evading much. But for just about everything else, I prefer the joystick.
-
I've used both, but I'm sticking with my joystick as I think it's just so damn fun to fly with. Nothing like spinning around like crazy trying to get a hit on a Dragon with primaries.
-
Joystick here. With a bit of practice it is a wonderful tool. When I actually try I get an 80% accuracy (usually about 60%, because shooting like hell is just much better), even though I have the dreaded Logitech Machine of Doom. I have 11 buttons on my Logitech Attack 3 (about 30$), but I use only 8 of them - it's very easy to use both keyboard and joystick, almost as driving a car and changing gears without looking.
Mouse, despite being more accurate, kills like 80% of the fun factor and is a pain for fast fighters or eratic maneuvers.
Yeah, shooting like hell does make it a lot more fun. And I never have liked joysticks and yes, playing with the mouse is like the most unrealistic thing ever. I used the mouse control thing in Freelancer and could never get fully immersed into it, I was always aware that I was playing a game. An interesting thing is in the opening cinematic for the first freespace, it looks like the pilot in the Apollo is controlling his ship with something similar to a keyboard. Although he could just be adjusting his engine power or something else and not actually flying the ship at the moment.
-
Actually, considering technological advances it's very likely that space fighters (if any ever are used, which I sadly suspect is not gonna happen) would be controlled intuitively via nerve signals, not with some arbitrary mechanical interface like mouse, trackball or joystick... so it isn't a matter of "realism" to use a joystick, in my honest opinion. Sure, more realistic than a mouse, but whatever works in the game for you, use it. I myself tend to prefer joystick/mouse /keyboard combo and alternate between stick and mouse depending on the situation. Sniping from long range, mouse for sure. Dogfighting, joystick is better. No contest there.
...so perhaps someone who possesses a TrackIR device could try and set it as a virtual joystick, and try controlling the fighter with head movements, that might be the closest you can get to "intuitive control system" with home facilities. :p
-
Heh, as I'm a close combat specialist, I rarely snipe long range, but yeah, it's much easier with mouse. I believe that using the j/k/m combo is the most optimal option.
Oh, and I looked at the FS1 intro. The control panels looked quite similarly to modern jets' cockpits; I believe that he was just adjusting some things there, possibly something connected with damage control. However, I haven't noticed any stick. There's too little place in front of him for one, and I believe there's no joystick on the side pannel ala F-16. Using the control panels for maneuvering would be very unpractical and inefficient (hmmm, maybe that's why your wingmen fly so badly sometimes... :P). Are they really "mind-controlling" the fighters ? That sounds a bit... anti-climatic for me. It doesnt fit the FS universe IMO.
-
Probably just a slip-up in art direction. I just watched the video and I couldn't see ANYTHING. His knees are way too close to the bulkhead for a stick in the middle, or so I thought. Course, we never even got a good look at the right side. There could have been a smaller stick located on the side paneling, like a regular joystick. =P
-
Sidewinder 3D Pro user here!
It's still a great joystick - Wasn't that expensive when I got it and it's lasted pretty well. wish al stuff was made to last like this!
There're enough buttons that I can do most of the important stuff without having to take my hand of the stick, and you can't beat it for things like Descent and the Beyond the Red Line mod, where the 8-way hat is indispensible for pulling crazy multi-vector maneuvers ;)
In MechWarrior I use a joystick/mouse combo, because you can't beat a mouse for accurate targetting, but in FS2 I never fly in a straight line long enough for such accurate targetting, and the ability to do snap-direction changes and sustained turns is a survival requirement in a dogfight!
-
I would use my Sidewinder 2 if FS2 had a yaw control. It feels stupid to be able to pitch and roll, but not yaw, espically since yawing would be less complicated in space.
-
Actually, considering technological advances it's very likely that space fighters (if any ever are used, which I sadly suspect is not gonna happen) would be controlled intuitively via nerve signals, not with some arbitrary mechanical interface like mouse, trackball or joystick... so it isn't a matter of "realism" to use a joystick, in my honest opinion. Sure, more realistic than a mouse, but whatever works in the game for you, use it. I myself tend to prefer joystick/mouse /keyboard combo and alternate between stick and mouse depending on the situation. Sniping from long range, mouse for sure. Dogfighting, joystick is better. No contest there.
...so perhaps someone who possesses a TrackIR device could try and set it as a virtual joystick, and try controlling the fighter with head movements, that might be the closest you can get to "intuitive control system" with home facilities. :p
About the mind control aspect of piloting, that has been used in the Star Wars New Jedi Order Series of books. The Yuzhan(spelling) Vong controlled their fighters, and even some capital ships through mind control. So I guess if another Sci-Fi universe could use it, it's completely plausible. And I beleive, tho am not sure, that In Star Trek Deep Space 9 the Cardassians used something similar, although they didn't exactly control the ship, it was more like a 3D view of space. I guess I can officially be labeled a total and complete nerd for knowing all of this and being able to remember it while drunk.
-
I would use my Sidewinder 2 if FS2 had a yaw control. It feels stupid to be able to pitch and roll, but not yaw, espically since yawing would be less complicated in space.
WTF? There IS a yaw control. Options->Control Config->Ship->Yaw
-
Actually, considering technological advances it's very likely that space fighters (if any ever are used, which I sadly suspect is not gonna happen) would be controlled intuitively via nerve signals, not with some arbitrary mechanical interface like mouse, trackball or joystick... so it isn't a matter of "realism" to use a joystick, in my honest opinion. Sure, more realistic than a mouse, but whatever works in the game for you, use it. I myself tend to prefer joystick/mouse /keyboard combo and alternate between stick and mouse depending on the situation. Sniping from long range, mouse for sure. Dogfighting, joystick is better. No contest there.
...so perhaps someone who possesses a TrackIR device could try and set it as a virtual joystick, and try controlling the fighter with head movements, that might be the closest you can get to "intuitive control system" with home facilities. :p
About the mind control aspect of piloting, that has been used in the Star Wars New Jedi Order Series of books. The Yuzhan(spelling) Vong controlled their fighters, and even some capital ships through mind control. So I guess if another Sci-Fi universe could use it, it's completely plausible. And I beleive, tho am not sure, that In Star Trek Deep Space 9 the Cardassians used something similar, although they didn't exactly control the ship, it was more like a 3D view of space. I guess I can officially be labeled a total and complete nerd for knowing all of this and being able to remember it while drunk.
Curiously, the original Battlestar Galactica's Vipers were controlled by a combination of a stick and a MechWarrior-esque neuro-helmet.
-
Saitek EVO Force and proud of it. Seriously, go out and buy one. Logitech is crap and I have had a defective one and two that refused to reverse after a while. The defective one was 80$ and the other two were 50$ and 80$ respectively. (A Wingman Attack 2 and two Force 3Ds).
-
I guess you're using a Logitech ;)
How did you know?!
Let's call it experience. :)
-
I once had a mouse that let me switch between three sensitivity settings, making it easier for fast turns while maintaining a decent aim. I'd also crank up the sensitivity when fighting Dragons. If I remember correctly, it worked pretty well.
Sadly, I no longer possess this mouse, but I still prefer it over the joystick. Good precision ftw!
-
been using a ch pro throttle, fighter stick and pro pedal lately. this is a setup for a control freak. i use my stick for pitch and roll and my pedals for yaw. i also wrote a cms script to use the little thumbstick on the throttle as a precision manuvering control, its got about a 6th the range of the mane stick so i get some pretty accurate aiming with it. the stick is awesome because it has hardware trim, not really usefull in freespace but it comes in handy for flightsims and especially usefull for landing in oolite. you can edit dedzones and acceleration curves for everything. i also have it set up to automatically afterburn when my throttle is all the way forward, and reverse when its all the way back. also i find the act of pulling the trigger is enough to throw off your aim, so i set up the brake pedals as primary and secondary triggers so i can hold my stick firm on the target while taking the shot. you can arbitrarily divide or combine axes into any combination you need like i could combine my 2 brake axes into a slide axis. or apply a small abount of negative roll when i yaw to compensate for freespace's coordination (if you notice when you yaw, its got some roll in it, i can take that out with my control config). controls can be merged if your game can only read one stick, now youre limited to 6 axes one hat and 32 buttons, while i have 9 axes, 2 hats and the same number of buttons, so you end up with 3 unused axes and a useless hat. but then you can those to keystrokes. the shift capabilities i think give me more than 32 axes and 128 buttons if i wanted to program them. total freekycool stuff.
-
*Snip*
I miss paragraphs. :(
-
Force Feedback 2, here. Originally got it for NFS: Most Wanted and Flight Sim X. I didn't have the Feedback 2 when I first got FS2, but I've stuck with Logitech all the way, and it's been pretty good.
-
*Snip*
I miss paragraphs. :(
what good are those when you have direct control over the bowel movements of every subject in the vasudan empire!
muhahahahaha!
-
I would use my Sidewinder 2 if FS2 had a yaw control. It feels stupid to be able to pitch and roll, but not yaw, espically since yawing would be less complicated in space.
WTF? There IS a yaw control. Options->Control Config->Ship->Yaw
Thanks. Didn't know that. Now I fell like an idiot.
-
*Snip*
I miss paragraphs. :(
what good are those when you have direct control over the bowel movements of every subject in the vasudan empire!
muhahahahaha!
:wtf:
-
I would use a joystick if I had one :(. Seriously, having to drag and pickup the mouse gets really annoying and the enemies often get past you that way. One time a dragon just flew in a straight circle around me, slowly getting off screen because I lost progress whenever I picked up the mouse. Eventually it got behind me and proceeded to install a new ventilation system on my myrmidon! I'm so sad now! :sigh: :( :shaking:
-
Warp Shadow, in situations like that, I use the NumPad (right side of keyboard)... usually gets you back into range.