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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: TESLA on September 22, 2009, 01:15:08 pm

Title: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: TESLA on September 22, 2009, 01:15:08 pm
Stargate Universe


WTF?

I must have been living under a rock for a while now......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUlYsnMoAwk

Are they doing a thing like BSG & Star Trek, re-imaging the show?

It will be on Sky One for those living in Ireland and Britain on October 6th
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Herra Tohtori on September 22, 2009, 02:03:43 pm
At least it doesn't look half as cheesy as the original Stargåte series.

As for the plot... Lost in Space/Voyager/Galactica/Farscape/Lost kitbash? :nervous: We'll see how it works out I guess...


I shall be keeping an eye on this one, but I don't have too high expectations to be honest. Just a hunch of mine. It will flop and be cancelled mid-season in favour of new reality TV: NYMCD (New York Municipal Cleansing Department). :blah:
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Rick James on September 22, 2009, 02:12:04 pm
Bah. This "dark and edgy" series looks like it's trying too hard to be Battlestar Galactica, which I didn't really like all that much.

I predict that this series will soon be hailed as the most canceled show of all time.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on September 22, 2009, 02:52:12 pm
Looks like it might be watchable.

The original stargate was something that could never really hold my interest to be honest. BSG did, but . . . it had its problems.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Mefustae on September 23, 2009, 06:43:29 am
I must have been living under a rock for a while now......
More like on Mars. In a cave. With your eyes closed and your fingers in your ears.

At least it doesn't look half as cheesy as the original Stargåte series.
Well, yeah. It's a different show. Different direction. The right amount of cheesiness served them well for, what, 12 years? The formula has to be updated.

Anyway, dark and edgy is in. It's cashing in on the success of Galactica. Certainly nothing to complain about.

I have high hopes for this, and not just because I'm a Stargate fan. When we get right down to it, there's very little A-grade Sci-fi on TV nowadays. Galactica's finished, after all! We need a replacement, and this might just fill the void! Let's give it the benefit of the doubt, folks.

Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Fury on September 23, 2009, 06:53:24 am
I loved the original SG series to bits until the Ori story arc, which I disliked. SG:A wasn't that good in the end. I hope this new series is at least as good as the original, then I'm in for a treat.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Mars on September 23, 2009, 07:00:55 am
They need character diversification badly.

None of this Shepherd = O'neil, etc, etc, etc crap.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Nuke on September 23, 2009, 07:02:11 am
its not like we have anything else to watch
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on September 23, 2009, 07:09:55 am
Atlantis was just starting to hit it's stride.  Granted it jumped the shark a little bit when the Wraith turned into the good guys, though Todd was cool(though honestly it was more Christopher Heyerdahl than anything else that made him cool, he played him as a sarcastic SOB who was on the outs with his entire species).  And it became a little derivative when the replacement bad guys turned out to be replicators, not the old replicators, but Ancient replicators so they're different, but not really.  And it tripped a little when they couldn't get Torri Higginson to rerpise her role as Dr. Weir for an episode in which she appears after being thought dead as a replicator.  There's a fairly long scene where the replacement actress explains why she doesn't look like herself.

But, it was a fun ride with interesting characters who were, for the most part, barely fleshed out.

And it was canceled for this tripe.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Fury on September 23, 2009, 07:17:52 am
Speaking of O'Neill. Has RDA gotten fat? Looks that way in the trailer linked to in the first post.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on September 23, 2009, 08:11:32 am
He's gotten old.  There comes a point where no amount of exercise or plastic surgery will fight gravity.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 23, 2009, 01:28:11 pm
Atlantis spent its later season jumping off the slippery slope when given a chance, so I'm not terribly fond of it.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Bobboau on September 23, 2009, 02:21:35 pm
I stopped watching some time around the point where they made that gate bridge and the vampire aliens were going to attack earth.

so Weir had a total of 3 actresses play the character in the end? wow, that character is starting to get as many as the doctor.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: MR_T3D on September 23, 2009, 02:38:44 pm
I stopped watching some time around the point where they made that gate bridge and the vampire aliens were going to attack earth.

so Weir had a total of 3 actresses play the character in the end? wow, that character is starting to get as many as the doctor.
what if she IS the doctor?

but really, are the snakeheads back in this one?
looks like it, and i would presume that the series takes pllace AFTER the other shows, unless its another dupe-reality PoS.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: The E on October 03, 2009, 06:43:36 am
 :bump:

So, it aired. No snakes, at least not in any meaningful way. Nice little setup. It seems that the producers watched BSG and decided to make a show just like it, only Stargatier (Yes, that's a word. Stop looking at me like that!). So far, I like it.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: IceFire on October 03, 2009, 08:20:16 am
Watched the premier last night.  Its a very different show although it still has a tiny bit of that Stargate feel.  The direction is totally different, the characters are done in a very different sort of way, and the whole scenario is very dark and yes...edgier too.  I think I'm going to need several episodes to get into the feel of this but I did think the setup was extremely well executed.

I loved Atlantis and I really liked SG-1 (depending on the season) but this is different and I'm not sure if I love it or not.  The premier of Atlantis had me hooked right away.  This isn't quite like that.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Mars on October 03, 2009, 09:55:24 am
I think it was done very well.

I like that the characters are almost completely new and not ripoffs of previous episodes.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on October 03, 2009, 10:28:03 am
"Hello, this is Daniel Jackson"
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Bobboau on October 03, 2009, 10:39:01 am
someone describe what happened as if you were talking to someone who has not seen so much as a commercial for this thing
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: BloodEagle on October 03, 2009, 10:53:19 am
I saw no advertising for this, and thus was unaware of its air-date. :/
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Bobboau on October 03, 2009, 12:03:12 pm
and I just generally have stopped paying attention to the syphilis channel.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on October 03, 2009, 12:12:42 pm
Apparently you can watch them on syfy.com
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: BloodEagle on October 03, 2009, 12:48:46 pm
and I just generally have stopped paying attention to the syphilis channel.

 :lol:

I call it Siffey, myself.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on October 03, 2009, 01:34:28 pm
I'm watching it right now. It's not bad. It IS like they took BSG and Stargate and crammed them together. Whether or not we get Reeses Pieces out it we'll just have to see.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on October 03, 2009, 02:04:24 pm
I am non-plused, it's trying VERY hard to be both stargate and BSG at the same time, something's gonna have to give.
Spoiler:
I found the overall level of sheer panic to be absurd.  Yes most of the people are civvies, but still, one would think anyone SGC lets offplanet wouldn't be prone to panicking in anything but the most life-threatening circumstances. 

 also find the concept that a few Ha'Tak and glider blasts would explode a planet, even one with an unstable core.  Any planet that unstable would have exploded long before Icarus command ever set foot on it.

On the upside the Ha'Taks seemed to be beefier, but why was the Hammond having so much trouble with them?  I mean that class of cruiser is able to blow Wraith hives into dust with a few well placed shots, so those Ha'Taks shouldn't have been an issue.

I know I'm grousing, but still the devil is in the details.
We shall see I guess.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: The E on October 03, 2009, 02:45:38 pm
I don't think we'll be seeing many Ha'taks or terran cruisers in this show. And since the battle happened entirely off-screen, we don't know what happened there.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on October 03, 2009, 04:31:31 pm
Watched, liked. Vanessa James was probably my favorite character - I figured she'd get killed off as The Slut right away, but she turned out to be rather level-headed.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: deathfun on October 03, 2009, 11:37:03 pm
The thing that got me into the series was the movie. I loved that movie, it was a great movie and when I saw it, I found it to be quite original.

When the TV show started, I watched it whenever it was on. The two movies after were not bad either
Atlantis was also an interesting branch, but never got into it since I could never figure out when new episodes would play, so I kept on watching repeats.

This new thing though... I think it strays too far from what Stargate actually was... maybe not. I won't know until I see more of it.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 04, 2009, 01:40:55 am
This new thing though... I think it strays too far from what Stargate actually was... maybe not. I won't know until I see more of it.

SG-1 was an almost complete reversal from the movie.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: The E on October 04, 2009, 04:36:56 am
Actually, at this point, doing something different with the franchise is a good idea IMHO. We've had 10 Seasons of SG-1, 4 Seasons of Atlantis, and a few movies with that formula; Time for something a little different.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: carbine7 on October 04, 2009, 05:28:29 am
Watched the first episode and I have to say, quite good. At least the stuck-up senator died right away instead of having to live with him for 14 episodes. btw, I don't know if its just me, or does the Destiny look a lot like a Centauri Vorchan?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on October 04, 2009, 07:05:34 am
Aside from her size the Destiny is kind of derivative from several different ships.  I was thinking EVE Online's Condor class frigate myself.

What I don't get is why she's in such crappy shape, Atlantis is at least as old as she is and sat at the bottom of an ocean for 10,000 years, yet Destiny is in crappy shape.  Unless Destiny is from WAY before Atlantis time wise, there is no reason she should be in the condition she's in, oddly her power source seems more advanced/reliable if less powerful than a ZPM as it has been operating since the ship was launched.

Just one of many plot holes I hope get's resolved.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: QuantumDelta on October 04, 2009, 07:35:04 am
Meh, it's one of those iconic designs, an EvE ship looks like it, some Centauri cruiser copied the design too, the Vor'cha looks like it, as to a degree - does the bird of prey.
I'm sure you could find other designs that look like it if you tried harder, tracking down the original (which is probably just a bird or something) might be quite hard.

Hell even the batplane VIII looks like it on occasion.

As for the franchise and the series.

I liked Atlantis besides it's failings and ok that's possibly related to my thing for Jewel Staite <3, but, SG-1 was an absolutely amazing series up to the Ori arc, I vaguely questioned the lesser races (I mean us/goa'ulds) ascending but overall it stuck to it's guns, same as Atlantis, the Ori arc bugged the crap outta me but mostly because it was basically Farscape but even worse (POSSIBLE?!).

This one - juries out, but seriously put a recipe together for ultimate tripe "LOST in Space, rather than Lost in Space." (And I didn't think the LOST franchise could be represented in any worse way than it's original seasons did for it).
That said, good first two eps though.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Fury on October 04, 2009, 08:45:59 am
What I don't get is why she's in such crappy shape, Atlantis is at least as old as she is and sat at the bottom of an ocean for 10,000 years, yet Destiny is in crappy shape.  Unless Destiny is from WAY before Atlantis time wise, there is no reason she should be in the condition she's in, oddly her power source seems more advanced/reliable if less powerful than a ZPM as it has been operating since the ship was launched.
The ship has probably seen plenty of hazards during it's voyage, including hostile attacks. At least the Atlantis was pretty safe in bottom of the ocean.

I didn't like Rush's character. :(
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: QuantumDelta on October 04, 2009, 09:02:40 am
Rush, the guy who was in the brig, and "Math Boy" are the main reasons I already think it likely I'll dislike this series ;P
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Fury on October 04, 2009, 09:23:06 am
Yeah...
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: newman on October 04, 2009, 10:43:19 am
Seriously, what's with all the BSG comparisons? Apart from it being "dark" there's really not that much similar that I can see. I should know, I'm a big BSG fan...
Personally, I found potential in SGU, with several flaws. I'm not that nuts about the art direction, the Destiny is a pretty generic and boring shape that got greebled up to insanity. The interior sets aren't something I'm nuts about either. If you're going to send a ship to travel that long, logic implies you have some pretty incredibly advanced technology to do it; I'm not sure it's warranted that the interior of the ship looks like a steel production plant. What we got are poorly lit generic sci-fi metal hallways. Yawn.
Characters could get more interesting, given the chance. The head scientist guy, Rush, I found interesting. The rest.. well, we'll see. At least they don't have Xena the warrior princess and Caveman.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Scotty on October 04, 2009, 03:48:30 pm
Generic sci-fi metal hallways make sense, if you think about it.  No extra furnishings, which when applied through out the entire ship (which could be several miles of halls) saves quite a bit of money.  Low lighting saves energy on a ship that (ostensibly) uses a craptonne of power.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: StarSlayer on October 04, 2009, 04:11:48 pm
I think newman's point and one I share is that for beings that built stargates across the universe and have acended to the next plane of existence the ancients' ships look... um... like scrap heaps. 
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Dark Hunter on October 04, 2009, 04:18:56 pm
Rush, the guy who was in the brig, and "Math Boy" are the main reasons I already think it likely I'll dislike this series ;P

I'm still waiting to see how their characters develop. I thought Atlantis would be horrible because it had McKay as a regular (I hated him in his SG-1 appearances), but he ended up, surprisingly, being entertaining.

I thought Math Boy would be a terrible character at first glance too, but for some reason, I'm not finding him very annoying. Maybe because he seems to be keeping his head and making himself useful, not panicking and making everything unnecessarily difficult.

I think newman's point and one I share is that for beings that built stargates across the universe and have acended to the next plane of existence the ancients' ships look... um... like scrap heaps. 

Well, the Destiny's been deteriorating for thousands of years at the very least. For it to still be functional at all is a testament to the Ancients' tech skills, really.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: MR_T3D on October 04, 2009, 07:01:37 pm
the main thing that bugged me was that the rush character seemed an AWFUL lot like baltar, and...
Spoiler:
...i bet he totally tipped off the ha'tak's
seemed alright,

and i liked seasons 9&10, mainly 10 because I frankly liked Vala.
but yeah, they were taked on, maybe they should have been on atlantis, but O-T.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on October 04, 2009, 07:07:29 pm
I think the characters will be fleshed out as they go. They can't have it more like SG-1 where everyone loved each other.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: deathfun on October 04, 2009, 09:18:38 pm
Quote
SG-1 was an almost complete reversal from the movie.

I thought differently, but then again it's been a while since I've seen the movie and the
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: carbine7 on October 04, 2009, 09:39:06 pm
SG-1 had really nothing to do with the movie except for the concept of the Goa'uld, the Stargate, and Colonel O'Neil and Daniel Jackson[despite the former being played by a different actor having a totally different take on the character]
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: The E on October 04, 2009, 09:40:46 pm
Both were played by different actors. It has been implied that SG-1 exists in a prallel universe to the movie.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Dark Hunter on October 04, 2009, 09:45:14 pm
That actually makes some sense in the series canon, given that alternate universes are apparently all over the place.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: carbine7 on October 04, 2009, 09:50:21 pm
Both were played by different actors. It has been implied that SG-1 exists in a prallel universe to the movie.
Shows just how long its been since I watched the movie. :lol: Never really liked it anyway.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Thaeris on October 04, 2009, 09:59:46 pm
Kind of a lame rationalization... the parallel universe->movie factor, that is. I liked the movie a good deal, actually. Didn't have all the cheesy aspects that tend to afflict the sci-fi drama series.

...I thought the actor who played Jackson in the series was the same as the movie Jackson... but that's not too important. O'Neil was definately noticable as being different from the film, but it's all good: ...we've got freakin' MacGyver... you're already one paperclip-in-rubber band's-width away from defeat!!!
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: carbine7 on October 04, 2009, 10:01:51 pm
The original Daniel was played by James Spader, who did look at lot like Michael Shanks. But yeah, MacGyver FTW! :lol:
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on October 05, 2009, 02:05:49 am
Shanks has copped to aping Spader's performance in the film for the first 2 or 3 seasons till he realized that it wasn't going anywhere.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Fury on October 05, 2009, 02:57:49 am
There was a difference after 2-3 seasons?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Mefustae on October 05, 2009, 03:50:38 am
When did he get the haircut?

Oh, and Stargate: Universe? I love it. I more than love it. It's what you get when you suck about 75% of the happiness out of the Stargate verse and put desperation and poor lighting in its place. Seriously, I'm looking forward to this. I can't wait to see the characters fleshed out, the Destiny explored, and the awesome additions to the Stargate mythos.

That said, it's not without its problems. It dragged slightly in one or two places, and the cutting between timeframes was a bit jarring without any real indication it was happening. But the latter was probably just because I was viewing it without the benefit of ad breaks. I also found myself shouting at the screen in certain places, namely "use the goddamn Asgard beams you nit", but at the same time I was smiling my ass off at all the little allusions to SG-1 and Atlantis. It's the little things that really place it in the universe, and help keep it grounded in the Stargate mythos. No matter how much the direction, cinematography, and style has changed, it still came across as a Stargate show. So it really wins in my mind from that alone.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Nuke on October 05, 2009, 06:45:39 am
i thought it was pretty good. its still on the dvr so im gonna probibly watch it again
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 05, 2009, 06:56:15 am
I also found myself shouting at the screen in certain places, namely "use the goddamn Asgard beams you nit"

I'm still waiting for a return to the ultimate VLS nuke spam we saw at Atlantis' Battle of the Abyss.
Title: Stargate Universe pilot, opinions
Post by: starbug on October 06, 2009, 04:10:28 pm
I have just watched the pilot of SGU and thought it was very good, well written, liked the new highly detailed Go-auld hataks! Also nice to have another fellow scottish actor on the stargate universe. Wish that sky would ave shown the 3rd episode as well but hey. I think that this could turn out to be a very good series indeed.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on October 06, 2009, 04:12:45 pm
Topics merged.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Topgun on October 06, 2009, 04:59:29 pm
in the movie, apophis Ra was an energy being, not a snake.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: MR_T3D on October 06, 2009, 05:15:45 pm
in the movie, apophis Ra was an energy being, not a snake.
yeah... that's weird, but snakeheads>energy-crazy-being ****.
i don't think it counts as 'cannon' when it conflicts with the series.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Mongoose on October 06, 2009, 08:00:44 pm
What about counting as "canon"? :p
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 06, 2009, 11:27:15 pm
in the movie, apophis Ra was an energy being, not a snake.

Yeah and Abaddos was supposed be halfway across the universe in another galaxy.

Of course there are inconsistencies, it's just a tv seris adaptation. One has to throw out some of the original movie to make it work . . .
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Thaeris on October 06, 2009, 11:38:22 pm
I think it's glaringly obvious that the series couldn't have decent energy beings because of the main killer of sci-fi series: budgets.

The effects of the film for the most part... in respect to the early series, at least... were way better than the TV show. Come on, look at the armor and weapons the enemy has in the movie in comparison to the show. The props and equipment in the movie were better, hands down. With a 90's sci-fi TV show, you can't pull off flashy effects and not suffer from production costs and deadlines.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on October 06, 2009, 11:55:02 pm
True, but from about season 7 onward, they started turning out film quality special effects and sets(mostly) on the same budget.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Mefustae on October 07, 2009, 01:27:45 am
True, but from about season 7 onward, they started turning out film quality special effects and sets(mostly) on the same budget.
Thanks in no small part to small but ingenious ideas for saving money on effects that can be distributed elsewhere: Such as stretching a screen across the inside of the Stargate and projecting the wormhole effect onto it, replicating the CGI wormhole nigh-on identically, but at only a fraction of the cost of actual CGI.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 07, 2009, 01:48:05 am
I think it's glaringly obvious that the series couldn't have decent energy beings because of the main killer of sci-fi series: budgets.

B5 has Vorlons. Worked fine there.
I always thought they toned down the armour for the sake of believability. Have it more practical rather than, a huge headpiece that forms up out of a collar.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: lostllama on October 07, 2009, 04:58:48 am
I kind of liked it. Definitely darker and BSG-ish in some of it's presentation (although, I haven't really watched much BSG... or watched that many SG-1 and Atlantis episodes :nervous:).

Possible
Spoiler:
I have the feeling that Dr. Rush knows more than he's letting on.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 07, 2009, 08:00:29 am
Because nobody has said it yet, and it's pretty much obligatory to any Stargate fan...

Jaffa, Kree!
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: TESLA on October 07, 2009, 12:01:08 pm
I liked it. But could have concluded the pilot episode a small bit better.

I do feel a Star Trek voyager / BSG mix and match going on here though
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on October 07, 2009, 12:09:37 pm
Well, the rub is that it's a 3 part pilot and they only aired 2 parts.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: SpardaSon21 on October 07, 2009, 12:32:01 pm
We only got to see 2/3 of the pilot?  That sucks.  Are they going to show us viewers part three?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on October 07, 2009, 12:35:05 pm
That's this friday's episode.  Which airs after alongside the Sanctuary season premier, which I am far more excited about.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: TESLA on October 07, 2009, 02:12:36 pm
That's this friday's episode.  Which airs after alongside the Sanctuary season premier, which I am far more excited about.


Yeah not a fan of Sanctuary....
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Kosh on October 08, 2009, 04:35:16 am
I don't think we'll be seeing many Ha'taks or terran cruisers in this show. And since the battle happened entirely off-screen, we don't know what happened there.

With the Asgard beam cannons even several Ha'taks wouldn't be a match for a terran cruiser.

Quote
I thought Atlantis would be horrible because it had McKay as a regular (I hated him in his SG-1 appearances), but he ended up, surprisingly, being entertaining.

Of the characters that were there from start to finish, he was absolutly my favorite. After all, who else can blow up a star system and get away with it?  ;7

Quote
But could have concluded the pilot episode a small bit better.

I found the jumping back and forth from past to present during the first half to be really confusing.

Quote
I do feel a Star Trek voyager / BSG mix and match going on here though

It seems to be doing right everything Voyager did wrong, especially characterization. But sometimes I think maybe it is too much like BSG, the commander seemed WWWWAAAAAYYYYY too much like Adama, even looks and vaguely sounds something like season 1 Adama.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Fury on October 08, 2009, 05:29:32 am
I don't think we'll be seeing many Ha'taks or terran cruisers in this show. And since the battle happened entirely off-screen, we don't know what happened there.

With the Asgard beam cannons even several Ha'taks wouldn't be a match for a terran cruiser.
You're assuming that the particular cruiser was even equipped with Asgard weaponry. It may not have been.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Kosh on October 08, 2009, 06:24:49 am
From what we have seen in Atlantis they seemed to be standard issue. On the other hand it's possible this episode takes place before the Asgard commit suicide. Does anyone know the timeline?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: QuantumDelta on October 08, 2009, 09:58:31 am
Gotta be quite late storyline wise if Carter is captain of /another/ new name cruiser. Doesn't it?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Black Wolf on October 08, 2009, 10:07:22 am
It's 2009, post Asgard suicide. I got the impression that, despite having the asgard database, they might not yet have the expertise to make the shields and weapons themselves (although they apparently can build their own ancients intergalactic communication device...)
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: MR_T3D on October 08, 2009, 10:11:31 am
It's 2009, post Asgard suicide. I got the impression that, despite having the asgard database, they might not yet have the expertise to make the shields and weapons themselves (although they apparently can build their own ancients intergalactic communication device...)
it looked to me like a discovered one, with AIR FORCE!! box around it,
well, not exactly AIR FORCE!! labels on it, just its in a box.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Nuke on October 08, 2009, 10:46:30 am
and oneil had time to get fat after his promotion to general.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Kosh on October 08, 2009, 09:02:18 pm
It's 2009, post Asgard suicide. I got the impression that, despite having the asgard database, they might not yet have the expertise to make the shields and weapons themselves (although they apparently can build their own ancients intergalactic communication device...)

The Asgard originally armed only one ship with beam cannons, but in Atlantis we see several with beams and shields.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: IceFire on October 08, 2009, 09:14:53 pm
It's 2009, post Asgard suicide. I got the impression that, despite having the asgard database, they might not yet have the expertise to make the shields and weapons themselves (although they apparently can build their own ancients intergalactic communication device...)

The Asgard originally armed only one ship with beam cannons, but in Atlantis we see several with beams and shields.
Two... three if you count Carter's ship in the alternate history from The Last Man (Season 4 finale of Atlantis).

Presumably they CAN replicate the technology but there is no mention if the Hammond has been fitted yet.  Since it was a courier mission mostly and because the ship is so new it may not be fully fitted out yet.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: MR_T3D on October 08, 2009, 09:26:54 pm
It's 2009, post Asgard suicide. I got the impression that, despite having the asgard database, they might not yet have the expertise to make the shields and weapons themselves (although they apparently can build their own ancients intergalactic communication device...)

The Asgard originally armed only one ship with beam cannons, but in Atlantis we see several with beams and shields.
Two... three if you count Carter's ship in the alternate history from The Last Man (Season 4 finale of Atlantis).

Presumably they CAN replicate the technology but there is no mention if the Hammond has been fitted yet.  Since it was a courier mission mostly and because the ship is so new it may not be fully fitted out yet.
It was incomplete/doctor Rush gave them specs on the ship?
either one seems plausable, the later being speculation, hence no spoiler tags,  sorry if it turrns out to be true ,but it would make sense, thinking about it...
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 09, 2009, 02:54:23 am
So where's my VLS nuke spam like Daedelus did during the Battle of the Abyss on Atlantis, then?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Fury on October 09, 2009, 04:31:03 am
The Horizon that was fired on the Replicator planet was big and slow. It would be shot down before nukes are even armed. Not only that, but using warheads of that caliber in close proximity could be suicidal. The Earth cruisers are already equipped with a plethora of missile launchers that I suppose have quite a destructive power that is still safe to use in close quarters.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 09, 2009, 04:51:00 am
Not the Horizon. The Battle of the Abyss, the one with two Wraith hiveships between galaxies, Daedleus fired its entire magazine of nuclear weapons against a Wraith hiveship to penetrate the ship's fighter screen. The scene was actually beautifully done as you see it in side view, the nukes spreading out, getting intercepted, and then a hit.

If you're still lost, 1:33 to 1:55 here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58OW5mviE5w&feature=related)
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Fury on October 09, 2009, 05:32:23 am
Oh that. They might have done that, but off-screen. Besides, have nukes ever been successful against Ha'taks since they have shields, hives don't? The Goa'uld Buster failed miserably because of shields.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: The E on October 24, 2009, 08:56:38 am
 :bump:

I'm really starting to love this show. The stories so far are great, the music kicks ass.....Definitely the best show this season for me.


(Unless they start jumping sharks fast)
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: lostllama on October 24, 2009, 09:02:27 am
I'm getting into it too, after a long period of avoiding TV. :nervous:
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Black Wolf on October 24, 2009, 09:59:13 am
Man, that episode was so well done. I mean, it's the 5th episode. We all knew they were going to make it, and yet I was on the edge of my seat. So good!
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: newman on October 24, 2009, 10:41:50 am
Another brilliant episode. I found it interesting even though I had predicted this exact outcome a week ago.. the "Destiny" had displayed the ability to take care of it's crew in the past, flying into a star seemed out of character unless it could withstand it and actually use it to refuel.
I'm glad to say that SGU has so far exceeded every expectation I had of it. The concept sounded like they'll do a "planet/aliens of the week" think like Voyager had, but so far it hasn't downgraded to that. I hope it never does.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on October 24, 2009, 11:12:03 am
That was awesome. The lottery scene was great, the sex scene was tasteful and added to the story, and the ending was a lovely twist.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Fury on October 24, 2009, 11:17:21 am
Just saw the newest episode. It didn't really have a impact on me, as I thought it was pretty generic episode including Rush learning some humility. At the end I was both angry at him and overjoyed because he's still the love to hate bastard. Loved the ending.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on October 24, 2009, 12:07:46 pm
The only thing I actively dislike is that none of the characters are likeable on they're surface except Eli.  He is was he is, everyone else has an agenda or some machiavellian plan or is broken, I dislike shows where there are so actually good people.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on October 24, 2009, 01:27:29 pm
Actually, I think SG:U does a good power of recognizing the influence of the situation. There are no 'good' or 'bad' people, just people and the stresses put on them.

I really disliked Greer, but he came across well this episode; same with Chloe; same with Rush, to a degree; and even the Colonel really stepped things up.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on October 24, 2009, 04:44:02 pm
That's not what I meant.

Every story has to have a hero or heroic(IE good) characters.  So far we've got 73 or how ever many nimrods who were chosen for an offworld assignment by the SGC/IOA, they should be inherently less prone to panic and disorganization in an emergency situation.  I'm not asking for 70 Jack O'Neills or Samantha Carters, but a little professionalism would be nice.  They're at the point in they're interpersonal exchanges that it took BSG almost 2 seasons to reach.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on October 24, 2009, 04:49:13 pm
Stories do not at all require heroes or heroic characters. Stories about ordinary people often show ordinary folks acting as heroes...even if they are, in fact, jerks. Other stories simply lack that element entirely.

(Take Ewan McGregor's character from Black Hawk Down, who turned out to be a pedophile.)

We are large, we contain multitudes. The whole point is to show that people can produce unexpected grit, or unexpected nastiness.

Besides, they're incredibly disciplined and non-panicky so far.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: The E on October 24, 2009, 04:53:43 pm
Yep. They got organized pretty quick after the initial confusion, and even took the lottery thing pretty well. So, while they were not prepared to suddenly be on the other side of several galaxies, they were prepared for extraplanetary missions.
And yeah, good ensemble stories do not need one big hero or two to be awesome.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on October 24, 2009, 04:54:37 pm
I'm thinking, at random, of Requiem for a Dream, which was a great story, but which was full of characters making bad decisions.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: The E on October 24, 2009, 04:57:25 pm
Hang on, SG:U made you think of one of the most depressing films EVER MADE????
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on October 24, 2009, 05:01:11 pm
No no, just the idea of a story without likable/'hero' characters.

What other good ones are there? Aside from real life.  :P
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on October 24, 2009, 06:12:43 pm
Ok, so instead of positive role model type characters you'd rather have 50 bajillion shows filled with Gregory House, M.D. clones or better yet a thousand Gaius Baltars.  That would be more boring than watching paint dry.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Scotty on October 24, 2009, 06:15:52 pm
Are you kidding?  I would watch a million clones of Hugh Laurie until the sun exploded.  And then some.  Him playing as House is made even more awesome because he's the deadpan snarker (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeadpanSnarker).
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on October 24, 2009, 06:19:23 pm
Ok, so instead of positive role model type characters you'd rather have 50 bajillion shows filled with Gregory House, M.D. clones or better yet a thousand Gaius Baltars.  That would be more boring than watching paint dry.

Not at all, but one or two shows executed well are nice...and you can have likable characters who are nonetheless flawed, or flawed characters who become likable (like Greer.)

You only need 'positive role models' if your audience consists of kids and idiots. Shows that describe reality are more fun than those that proscribe it.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: The E on October 24, 2009, 06:22:35 pm
I am not a kid anymore. I don't want or need "role models" that were obviously designed as such. Real people are much more interesting.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on October 24, 2009, 06:30:46 pm
Ok, so instead of positive role model type characters you'd rather have 50 bajillion shows filled with Gregory House, M.D. clones or better yet a thousand Gaius Baltars.  That would be more boring than watching paint dry.

Watching people in complete control execute military operations would be utterly boring. Once people start to identify the heroic characters it almost sucks the suspense out of it.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on October 24, 2009, 06:40:53 pm
Perhaps, but we are talking about a show that takes place on a ship half a billion light years away, reality left you standing at the door.  I was weary of angst after BSG got done.  Now I get to have angst with plots I can figure out a week before they air based on what they left standing at the end.

Ah!  The joy of uncreative television!

@The E
But they aren't real, they are broken in ways that most real people would have been commited to an asylum or put in prison for...Roush particularly.

I'm not saying I don't like it.  I just dislike the trend it's following.

I want Superman and they're giving me Bobo the drunk who hasn't had a bath in a year.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on October 24, 2009, 06:43:12 pm
But we just had two series of Superman!

Rush is awesome. I hate to say it, my friend, but a lot of savants are just the way he is...except usually with fewer social skills.

The fact that they start out in bad places will make it all the more fun when they do get their act together.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: The E on October 24, 2009, 06:48:07 pm
Yep, Rush, with all of his FOR SCIENCE!-irrationality and general magnificent bastardry really is the most interesting character so far.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: newman on October 24, 2009, 07:07:37 pm
I used to prefer shows with superman - like characters. Then I stopped being a kid, and found stuff like Sheppard the invulnerable, Ronin the Caveman and Teyla the Warrior Princess ridiculous. Give me Rush with his autistic quirks any day of the week over those comic book characters.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on October 24, 2009, 07:22:23 pm
I don't mind having good guys, but if I know they're all going to live to the end of an episode it's not as interesting
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Mongoose on October 24, 2009, 10:16:22 pm
You only need 'positive role models' if your audience consists of kids and idiots. Shows that describe reality are more fun than those that proscribe it.
The thing is, for those of us who view our entertainment avenues of choice as a form of personal escapism, that "reality" being depicted is exactly what we're trying to escape from. :p I'm not saying that I don't appreciate realism from time to time in its proper place, but speaking generally, I'll stick to the Rule of Cool and non-Newtonian spaceships myself.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on October 24, 2009, 10:20:47 pm
Exactly.

If I want realism I'll turn on Law and Order.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on October 25, 2009, 01:54:35 am
Go watch SG-1 reruns, then.

I can't find any escapism when I know what's going to happen down to the littlest cut. And that's what SG-1/SGA eventually devolved into.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Fury on October 25, 2009, 02:07:05 am
Character discussion aside, did anyone else find it odd that the Destiny managed to survive all the way into a sun's corona and then some? I mean, that spells like the Destiny is the toughest goddamn spaceship ever seen on SG, including city-ship and Aurora class ships. Which would be kind of a plot hole considering that Atlantis and Aurora are supposed to be far more advanced than Destiny. If Destiny was capable of withstanding sun, how on earth it could ever be harmed by any ship-to-ship weapons we have seen to date?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Mongoose on October 25, 2009, 02:45:08 am
I'm not watching this series, so I can't comment on the specifics, but I can see a sufficiently-strong ship surviving for some time in a star's outer layers.  Though a star's corona is a few orders of magnitude hotter than its surface, its particle density is incredibly low, so there isn't a whole lot of matter actually coming into contact with a ship's hull.  Even the surface of the Sun has a particle density of only about 1% of that on Earth at sea level, according to Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun#Photosphere).  Provided the Destiny is made of the sci-fi handwavium du jour, it seems plausible enough.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Kosh on October 25, 2009, 02:58:40 am
Character discussion aside, did anyone else find it odd that the Destiny managed to survive all the way into a sun's corona and then some? I mean, that spells like the Destiny is the toughest goddamn spaceship ever seen on SG, including city-ship and Aurora class ships. Which would be kind of a plot hole considering that Atlantis and Aurora are supposed to be far more advanced than Destiny. If Destiny was capable of withstanding sun, how on earth it could ever be harmed by any ship-to-ship weapons we have seen to date?

I imagine it could be. Maybe it was specially designed to withstand quick trips into the sun to refuel, but it didn't stay for too long.

It is also possible it was made of special materials given the mission specific nature of the ship, it also explains why it runs off of stellar matter instead of ZPM's; since it is going out on an extra long distance trip it will need something that they can be sure to find in that sector: stars.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on October 25, 2009, 03:24:45 am
OK, so they've solved the air problem, the power problem and next week and possibly the week after will solve the water problem, obviously Destiny is recycling they're waste so that's that problem solved, that leaves food, which while pressing seems less of an issue since the rations are holding up.

*possible spoiler*
Hmm, I smell someone dying from falling into a lake of liquid nitrogen when Destiny drops out of FTL in range of a ice moon, one of the disposable idiots will step on a weak spot and fall in, being flash frozen in the process.

Also, this "signs of battle" bull****, that bloody ship is 5000 centuries old, it's going to have a bit of wear and tear.  Aside from the hand weapons that the humans brought with them, I've seen nothing that remotely resembles a weapon, even an Ancient one.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on October 25, 2009, 03:28:38 am
I imagine there'll be an armory on board. Or they'll need a way to get more 5.56 and 9mm and 4.9 or whatever.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Ashrak on October 25, 2009, 05:09:18 am
okhay how many of you seriously didnt know what was going to happen in this weeks episode, it was pretty much no pointi n watching it except for the CGI. last episode "were on a collision course with the sun and were out of power"

"out of power"? on a ship that has been running for billions of years? LOL.

frigin idiots.

+ how can you stand near a huge window while flying into a sun without scortching your eyes out.


Refer to sunshine movie.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on October 25, 2009, 12:11:25 pm
okhay how many of you seriously didnt know what was going to happen in this weeks episode, it was pretty much no pointi n watching it except for the CGI. last episode "were on a collision course with the sun and were out of power"

I think everybody knew what was going to happen. We all know what's going to happen at Thermopylae and the Alamo too. It's still a good story.

Quote
+ how can you stand near a huge window while flying into a sun without scortching your eyes out.

The window probably has safety mechanisms, just like the one in Sunshine.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on October 25, 2009, 02:59:18 pm
I don't think they would have made a ship that could get that close to a sun and not put some kind of protection for people's eyes.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 25, 2009, 04:28:00 pm
The main disappointment, as I see it, is that SGU has gone the BSG route of presenting a supposed military organization that's impossibly ****ed up as such, and couldn't ever have passed muster even in the admittedly lax Stargate program, but provided nowhere near a BSG-level of rationale for it.

And even BSG at least had the courtesy to present us with a reasonable starting point, got progressively more screwed up as time went on. In most of Season Two they probably could have squeaked by a review board still; taken a beating in the reports, but not been subject to mass courts-martial and disbandment. SGU hasn't got a hope in hell of that. These are clearly not the best and the brightest of Earth. Has the SGC really fallen that far? I doubt it.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on October 25, 2009, 04:40:38 pm
How many military personnel are there on the ship? I also think that the Rush being seemed to be "in charge" is helping fuel the actions of the military people because it doesn't even seem to have any order to it.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on October 25, 2009, 04:56:00 pm
The actions of the military people are born from a lack of firm leadership since Young was outta commision and his immediate is too busy ogling or ****ing the senator's daughter to actually provide any leadership.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on October 25, 2009, 04:57:26 pm
I dunno, Scott seemed to be doing all right back during 'Air'. He hasn't had much of a need to lead since.

From the way the sex scene played out seemed more like she was ****ing him, anyway.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on October 25, 2009, 05:04:59 pm
You know, I'm really upset I missed that episode now. Thanks guys.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Vetinari on October 25, 2009, 06:51:24 pm
SGU isn't what I expected it to be (Although if they ever find any decent ships it would make a fun mod here) anyway the only selling point for the show is that Robert Carlisle has supposedly hinted at doing a few seasons of this, which I think is how they got the show to begin with as I know no one else in the show at all from any other show I watch on TV.

Still, 4 episodes in and it is still early days, it might just be a slow start building up to something reasonable. It might just be a bad start building up to a cancellation.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: lostllama on November 18, 2009, 03:15:31 pm
Anyone still watching this, out of interest?

I just caught up with the most recent episode on our VCR... An awesome episode in my opinion. I was thinking it might turn into a two-parter near the end but when it finished I was left with the impression that it might not. The show has already demonstrated some strong continuity between episodes anyway, I guess.

Spoiler:
Ugh, those things!! Was anyone else reminded of Another World? :shaking:

Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: BloodEagle on November 18, 2009, 04:04:28 pm
I'm still watching it, if only so that I have credibility when I tell people how bad it is. (Though it is, admittedly, getting better).

Spoiler:
I was honestly happy (my neighbors can attest to this, as can the police who showed up at my door an hour later) when I saw her die. She's worse than any Mary Sue.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: MR_T3D on November 18, 2009, 05:48:13 pm
I dunno, Scott seemed to be doing all right back during 'Air'. He hasn't had much of a need to lead since.

From the way the sex scene played out seemed more like she was ****ing him, anyway.
I flat out don't like scott, for some reason...
...i think its because many of us here likely kind of like Eli, so of course scott seems like a tool.
that guy was my reason to watch the show, but, alas, over here there's better things to do on friday night than watch a mediocre show.. :pimp:
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Herra Tohtori on November 18, 2009, 11:20:37 pm
Spoiler:
I was honestly happy (my neighbors can attest to this, as can the police who showed up at my door an hour later) when I saw her die. She's worse than any Mary Sue.

Spoiler:
Don't celebrate yet. Even if you saw her die twice... She'll get better. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IGotBetter)

See, that episode was not about the real time line at all, but about two preceding ones. The first time line ended in the away team being slaughtered, second finding the Kino of the first time line and getting back to Destiny to view it, and people got ill there instead of on the planet. Then they sent another away team, which got slaughtered with the exception of Scott, who sent the Kino back in time for the THIRD and presumable "real" time line's away team to find. In the REAL time line, the away team will find the Kino with Scott's message about the disease, which will make them grab a few of those chestburster snakes, haul ass back to the ship, extract venom from the snake thingy and heal the disease, and next episode will be about all the shenanigans and difficulties that the real time line's crew will meet making this happen.

Of course, if you watched the episode carefully you knew this already.

So, yeah. Who needs causality if it's in the way of plotline...

Anyway, despite the predictability of the plot (to some extent anyway) I find the series, in general, watchable. Not as good as BSG season 1, but watchable nonetheless.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Kosh on November 19, 2009, 12:15:54 am
It is watchable but it tries WAY too hard to be like BSG. Stargate has always had its own semi campy style, I just dont see how making it into Stargate: Battlestar Galactica is good for it.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: QuantumDelta on November 19, 2009, 03:17:13 pm
Isn't it a bit more like lost than BSG? (ie; terribly****)
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Kosh on November 20, 2009, 08:20:44 pm
The style is very much BSG, right down to the dodgy doctor. Young's demeanor, and the style of his statements seems like a carbon copy of Adama.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on November 20, 2009, 11:13:28 pm
After tonight's episode I am more convinced than ever that Telford is a real piece of work to untold levels.  There's a storm coming and the only "good guys" around to do the moral and upstanding thing are Young and Eli.  Scott, may he burn in hell, is a virtually catatonic at the revelation that his uninhibited fornication with anything with boobs and two legs has had consequences.  Chloe is less useful that a dead battery.  Roush...Roush will do what is best for Roush and God damn anyone that gets in his way.  The rest are going to come up against them somehow.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I grow weary of this grim and gritty bull****.  If I want grim and gritty I'll turn over to the evening news for the latest example of political corruption that no one seems to do anything about, the latest in a string of murders no one seems to be able to stop or how little Billie Joe just turned 5 and is looking forward to Kindergarten where the teachers will proceed to tell her her parents are bad because they don't do this, this or thusandso.

As an aside, Jack O'Niell isn't acting the old Jack in the least little bit.  The old Jack wouldn't have put up with this black ops bull**** on the part of Telford and the rest.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: BloodEagle on November 21, 2009, 12:47:57 pm
Just watched the latest, myself. I sincerely hope that, if they ever show up, the evil aliens heroic saviors kill everyone on that damned ship. Sans Eli, Young, and Greer, of course.

....

That would make a pretty good ending, actually.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on November 21, 2009, 01:30:06 pm
I'm not sure Greer's on "our" side either, tbh though.

I'm tired of this character buildup, it's been half a season of wingeing and angsty moaning with barely a peep of what made SG fun and popular in the first place.  I want to see what the deal with that ship that left Destiny at the end of pilot was all about.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on November 21, 2009, 03:18:08 pm
If you don't like it, you don't have to watch it.

Stargate's formula was played out by SG-1 S6.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: The E on November 21, 2009, 03:34:30 pm
Agreed. While I too want to see Chekhov's Starship fired, I find the character stuff quite fun. And while "lighthearted fun" is, well, fun, it is just a little snack compared to the meatier drama that a darker series can provide.

Science Fiction, as a literary form, has recently been more about human beings in extraordinary situations, and how being in those situations changes the humans in question. TV Sci Fi, in the past, was about the extraordinary situations themselves, and how they work, rather than about the people inside those Situations (This is a MASSIVE overgeneralization, and accordingly, not really true).
Now, in the last few years, TV SF has caught up to literary SF, and stay away from techity tech stuff. As a result, the writers have more opportunities to write about the things that writers find interesting, which (unsurprisingly), is people. And since happy people make for bad drama, we get something darker.
In a few years, we might see a rebound of "lighter" shows, but for now, character drama it is.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Mongoose on November 21, 2009, 05:38:35 pm
Now, in the last few years, TV SF has caught up to literary SF, and stay away from techity tech stuff. As a result, the writers have more opportunities to write about the things that writers find interesting, which (unsurprisingly), is people. And since happy people make for bad drama, we get something darker.
But where does that leave those of us who find the techity-tech stuff to be far more interesting than people? :p
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Herra Tohtori on November 21, 2009, 06:35:00 pm
Stranded on the planet of the apes?

You maniacs...
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on November 21, 2009, 06:48:32 pm
Now, in the last few years, TV SF has caught up to literary SF, and stay away from techity tech stuff. As a result, the writers have more opportunities to write about the things that writers find interesting, which (unsurprisingly), is people. And since happy people make for bad drama, we get something darker.
But where does that leave those of us who find the techity-tech stuff to be far more interesting than people? :p
Watching reruns. 

The thing about character driven drama is that you can have it without being angsty, depressed and so broken that you are barely functional, re: Babylon 5.  I mean that to me is the holy grail of SciFi television, it's fast paced and epic in scale but you still get the fabulous characterization, 'course Andreas Katsulas and Peter Jurasik carried the rest of the cast but still.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Mars on November 21, 2009, 11:52:22 pm
I like SGU

There, I said it.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 22, 2009, 12:28:40 am
Agreed. While I too want to see Chekhov's Starship fired, I find the character stuff quite fun. And while "lighthearted fun" is, well, fun, it is just a little snack compared to the meatier drama that a darker series can provide.

The problem is SGU, like BSG did, accepted the credo that dark situations make for dark people. I'm all for serious and crap like that, but I didn't drink that particular Kool-Aid.

So that was the story Star Trek and B5 and even SG-1 wanted to tell. The fight against evil and injustice is a battle without an end, but if you fight it well, if you stand to your guns, sometimes it can be won for a little while.

BSG wanted to tell that story too, at first. It would have told it in a gritty way, no doubt, but this is not a bad thing. Sometime though, standing in the mud, it lost its way. And it never really found it again. Stargate Atlantis did something similar, though its swings were more abrupt and extreme.

SGU was never on the right path.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on November 22, 2009, 01:54:33 am
There's a pretty decent correlation between stress and depression. People can cope with just about anything (as the stories from concentration camps prove), but it's not an effortless, graceful process.

Dark situations may bring out the darkness in people. That doesn't mean there's no hope in them either.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Ashrak on November 22, 2009, 07:23:15 am
stargate universe is puuuuure soap, your better off watching i ono mentalist? even THAT has more Sci-Fi than universe its just sooooo booooring noone ever shoots anyone etc no enemies just BLAH BLAH BLAH talk talk whine whine cry cry GAWD, down the drain i tell you.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: BloodEagle on November 22, 2009, 10:31:18 am
stargate universe is puuuuure soap, your better off watching i ono mentalist? even THAT has more Sci-Fi than universe its just sooooo booooring noone ever shoots anyone etc no enemies just BLAH BLAH BLAH talk talk whine whine cry cry GAWD, down the drain i tell you.

Well said.  :ick:

Though I do agree that SGU isn't sci-fi, as of yet.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 22, 2009, 10:52:53 am
There's a pretty decent correlation between stress and depression. People can cope with just about anything (as the stories from concentration camps prove), but it's not an effortless, graceful process.

Dark situations may bring out the darkness in people. That doesn't mean there's no hope in them either.

Except, what we get is both effortless and graceless. We don't even get attempts at effective coping.

And it gets worse, too. BSG had an excuse since they were all on a Battlestar about to deactivated. A higher-than-normal proportion of screwups and people who can't handle it is to be expected. SGU expects us to believe the same things about the BSG cast are true of the best and the brightest. None of these folks would have passed muster as an SGC recruit in any of the other Stargate shows.

If I wanted to watch normal people in ****ed up situations, I'd be tuning into Big Brother or Survivor. I came to see extraordinary people in ****ed up situations. BSG managed to deliever on that promise, but SGU can't.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on November 22, 2009, 11:52:28 am
stargate universe is puuuuure soap, your better off watching i ono mentalist? even THAT has more Sci-Fi than universe its just sooooo booooring noone ever shoots anyone etc no enemies just BLAH BLAH BLAH talk talk whine whine cry cry GAWD, down the drain i tell you.

Well said.  :ick:

Though I do agree that SGU isn't sci-fi, as of yet.

Huh? It examines the effects of a technological situation on human beings.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: BloodEagle on November 22, 2009, 12:32:12 pm
You say technology, I say magic.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on November 22, 2009, 01:23:23 pm
Not all of them are messed up. Some of them are just fine. I would say most people there are acting pretty much the same as they would otherwise (based on what little evidence there is)

If I wanted a campy or lighthearted pretend sci fi show, I'd watch Eureka.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on November 22, 2009, 02:17:04 pm
Not all of them are messed up. Some of them are just fine. I would say most people there are acting pretty much the same as they would otherwise (based on what little evidence there is)
True, if they were a bunch of nueurotic, self-absorbed, narcissists who had no business on a research project of Icarus' apparent importance.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on November 22, 2009, 02:19:19 pm
Not all of them are messed up. Some of them are just fine. I would say most people there are acting pretty much the same as they would otherwise (based on what little evidence there is)
True, if they were a bunch of nueurotic, self-absorbed, narcissists who had no business on a research project of Icarus' apparent importance.

That's actually exactly the kind of people I would expect to find on a project like that.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Colonol Dekker on November 22, 2009, 02:33:45 pm
I watched a bit of this on youtube, i do not like it at all........ :ick:
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 22, 2009, 05:34:08 pm
That's actually exactly the kind of people I would expect to find on a project like that.

Further proving your ignorance of the relevant background, with the sole exception of Rodney McKay.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: BloodEagle on November 22, 2009, 06:24:48 pm
That's actually exactly the kind of people I would expect to find on a project like that.

Further proving your ignorance of the relevant background, with the sole exception of Rodney McKay.

Who is tolerable (by SGC, et al.) only because of the results he brings.

The crew (aside from Eli and, perhaps, Rush) is of average capability or, usually, less. And therefore should not warrant tolerance for their collective incompetence, thus bringing into question how they were ever assigned to a freaking top-secret operation.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on November 22, 2009, 06:27:54 pm
What? In what way is this crew incompetent?

I think you people have watched too much Stargate.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: TESLA on November 22, 2009, 07:17:31 pm
What? In what way is this crew incompetent?

I think you people have watched too much Stargate.

Of course they are!

Sure they have yet to defeat god-like enemies, super duper replicating things, Ascended beings, change the course of history, travel to parallel universes, all within a 60 minute timeframe!  :D  :D  ;)
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on November 22, 2009, 07:21:32 pm
Yeah. I keep feeling like people are saying 'incompetent' and meaning 'lacking in technobabble.'

They've already accomplished a few pretty major feats.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: TESLA on November 22, 2009, 07:24:41 pm
Yeah. I keep feeling like people are saying 'incompetent' and meaning 'lacking in technobabble.'

They've already accomplished a few pretty major feats.

You mean like staying alive in a 100,000 year old space ship at the far flung end of the universe?  :drevil:
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on November 22, 2009, 07:41:25 pm
That's actually exactly the kind of people I would expect to find on a project like that.

Further proving your ignorance of the relevant background, with the sole exception of Rodney McKay.

I meant in real life
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 22, 2009, 09:43:07 pm
I meant in real life

Again, if I wanted to watch true to real life show, there's plenty of reality tv out there.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Scotty on November 22, 2009, 09:59:20 pm
If they make them too extraordinary, they risk breaking the Willing Suspension of Disbelief (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief), which would kill the rest of the series, really.

And some people want to watch normal people try to cope with monumentally ****ed up situations IN SPACE! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitlekt6mtovm4vne)
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: SpardaSon21 on November 22, 2009, 10:18:08 pm
Damn it.  I just had to click the links.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on November 23, 2009, 12:15:29 am
I meant in real life

Again, if I wanted to watch true to real life show, there's plenty of reality tv out there.

What makes you think reality tv is like real life?

I don't know why people cling to this desire for that kind of sci fi.

The old style of Stargate had zero drama. Almost no one died but Jackson and he never stayed dead. Some of it was really funny but most of it was "Oh no a problem! It'll kill us all if we don't fix it. Oh wait, we fixed it. See you guys next week."

Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on November 23, 2009, 01:23:48 am
Yeah. Old Gate was a bit campy at first and eventually turned into a satire of itself.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 23, 2009, 01:43:47 am
Assertion Not Supported By Evidence

I didn't ask for the old SG, now did I? You want to argue against the non-straw man maybe?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on November 23, 2009, 02:04:23 am
You did earlier accuse him of unfamiliarity with the source material, suggesting that was your metric for comparison.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 23, 2009, 02:13:03 am
Yes, but I did so on a specific subject, the stability and reliablity of the people employed in offworld exploration throughout both previous series, which is not related to overall tone of said series; particularly since tone differed widely.

Unless he's saying SGU is in an alternate universe of Stargate?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on November 23, 2009, 09:35:54 am
Assertion Not Supported By Evidence

I didn't ask for the old SG, now did I? You want to argue against the non-straw man maybe?

And that would be why I didn't say that. I said "that kind of sci fi" and then gave an example of Stargate because that is what we are talking about.

But we'll talk about that after this quote.

Yes, but I did so on a specific subject, the stability and reliablity of the people employed in offworld exploration throughout both previous series, which is not related to overall tone of said series; particularly since tone differed widely.

Unless he's saying SGU is in an alternate universe of Stargate?

I'm saying I'm glad they took the method of portraying people in the old Stargate shows (among other types) and threw it right out.

These people have no flaws. I personally find that to be the most unrealistic of all (given it's a sci fi theme).

There is no drama with people who handle everything with a smile and witty comment. I want to watch regular people handling some weird sci fi stuff, and no always correctly.

I think this scenario where everyone is perfect like Stargate did was just... well, flawed. I seriously doubt it would ever be like that.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on November 23, 2009, 12:04:06 pm
The issue that most of us are having is that these people are TOO flawed to have been in the situation they were in before they got onto Destiny.

I don't care that Young seems fixated on salvaging his relationship with his wife, at least he's still functional.  3/4 of the people we've seen would be dead 20 sec into a battle with a squad of disposable Jafa or Faceless wraith, because they're virtually catatonic right now.

So far we had half a season, which is what? 8 or 9 episodes?  We've been back to earth for the majority of the episode 5 times out or 8 or 9, which is ridiculous.

Stargate as a franchise was built on exciting situations in alien environments with semi-predictable, verbose, over the top villains.  It was popular because it was a comic book on television.  Now you've taken away my comic book and handed me a psychological thriller with no murders, violence, scary situations and precious few thrills and told me it's better.  When there's no heroes and no real villains, you don't have drama, you have people standing around talking about the weather or in the case of SG:U, people hiding in a dark corner crying about some childhood trauma.

So far my reaction to the whole thing is  :doubt:
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on November 23, 2009, 12:37:50 pm
I hate to tell you this, but in real life, 3/4 of people would be dead 20 seconds into an encounter with a squad of Jaffa or Wraith.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: MR_T3D on November 23, 2009, 01:04:29 pm
The issue that most of us are having is that these people are TOO flawed to have been in the situation they were in before they got onto Destiny.

I don't care that Young seems fixated on salvaging his relationship with his wife, at least he's still functional.  3/4 of the people we've seen would be dead 20 sec into a battle with a squad of disposable Jafa or Faceless wraith, because they're virtually catatonic right now.

So far we had half a season, which is what? 8 or 9 episodes?  We've been back to earth for the majority of the episode 5 times out or 8 or 9, which is ridiculous.

Stargate as a franchise was built on exciting situations in alien environments with semi-predictable, verbose, over the top villains.  It was popular because it was a comic book on television.  Now you've taken away my comic book and handed me a psychological thriller with no murders, violence, scary situations and precious few thrills and told me it's better.  When there's no heroes and no real villains, you don't have drama, you have people standing around talking about the weather or in the case of SG:U, people hiding in a dark corner crying about some childhood trauma.

So far my reaction to the whole thing is  :doubt:
indeed, SG-1 was awesome, hell,, even seasons 9 and 10 were better than the spinoffs.
I'd have liked to see more from danny boy and vala..? (Claudia Black's character)'s characters developing.. :rolleyes:
yeah, who cleared these people to even know about SGC, let alone go off-world..?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Colonol Dekker on November 23, 2009, 01:43:35 pm
Someone needs to summarise the plot. I gave up after literally five minutes of poor quality CGI and bad military props/uniform.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Fury on November 23, 2009, 01:45:34 pm
There's no such thing. What you saw in first five minutes is pretty much all the plot we have so far. Awesome, innit?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Colonol Dekker on November 23, 2009, 01:51:50 pm
Voyager SGC?
 
That. Is. Pony.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: SpardaSon21 on November 23, 2009, 01:56:04 pm
That's part of the problem with SGU.  There's no enemy for the crew of the Destiny to fight, so all we are left with is angsty moaning.  At least BSG had the Cylons to unite and motivate the characters.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on November 23, 2009, 01:59:47 pm
Exactly.

Right now they're only "enemies" are hunger, thirst and breathing.  All very nebulous and while universal, they can't taunt you or manipulate the situation.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on November 23, 2009, 02:33:37 pm
The issue that most of us are having is that these people are TOO flawed to have been in the situation they were in before they got onto Destiny.

Like what? I've been watching the show and I don't really see any major flaws.

I don't care that Young seems fixated on salvaging his relationship with his wife, at least he's still functional.  3/4 of the people we've seen would be dead 20 sec into a battle with a squad of disposable Jafa or Faceless wraith, because they're virtually catatonic right now.

Considering most of them are civilians, that makes a lot of sense.

But you're mad the soldiers aren't at the ready? Against who? They're on a ship in the middle of nowhere with zero to do.

What are the soldiers supposed to be doing on this ship?

Stargate as a franchise was built on exciting situations in alien environments with semi-predictable, verbose, over the top villains.  It was popular because it was a comic book on television.  Now you've taken away my comic book and handed me a psychological thriller with no murders, violence, scary situations and precious few thrills and told me it's better.  When there's no heroes and no real villains, you don't have drama, you have people standing around talking about the weather or in the case of SG:U, people hiding in a dark corner crying about some childhood trauma.

So far my reaction to the whole thing is  :doubt:

That is exactly what I want. I don't want villains and heroes.

I got tired of watching Carter, O'neill Teal'c, Jackson and whoever never lose, never die, nothing. They do everything right and everything turns out well at the end. That's why they had to keep ramping up the bad guys all the time. They ended the first show by practically beating gods. I guess all in a days work, right? I got tired of watching the same half dozen people kick the ass of an advanced race or teaching pseudo medieval cultures all about modern society.

I'm not sure what you guys want. Them to get control of the ship and fly around shooting funny looking aliens?

These are the people I expect to see on projects because these are the people we see every day. Brilliant scientists with antisocial behavior. Soldiers with no one to fight.

That was what I hated about Stargate. No one suffered from stress, or was scared.

A top level project? I expect ambitious jerks looking for ways to move up the ladder. Antisocial people who are brilliant at what they do but are so neurotic can't interact with others well. People dealing with withdrawl from things like caffeine or nicotine.

Does everyone have to have these? No. Do they all have to be there? No. But this military complex of people that never make mistakes or have flaws is boring and in my opinion just not real. You can't create a perfect team like that.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on November 23, 2009, 03:25:44 pm
And that's all well and good, but why aren't there at least one or two besides Eli that aren't handling the situation poorly.  I don't mind that they're imperfect, it's just that they ALL so damned imperfect it's like watching greatest hits from the psych ward.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: SpardaSon21 on November 23, 2009, 03:29:12 pm
I seriously hope they lose the Ancient communication stones.  There's a lot less drama when they can just phone home to Earth whenever they want.  I would greatly prefer it if the crew of the Destiny were on their own.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: MR_T3D on November 23, 2009, 03:33:16 pm
And that's all well and good, but why aren't there at least one or two besides Eli that aren't handling the situation poorly.  I don't mind that they're imperfect, it's just that they ALL so damned imperfect it's like watching greatest hits from the psych ward.
Eli is the best only likable character, with possible exception of zergRUSH
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Colonol Dekker on November 23, 2009, 03:35:07 pm
Did someone say no nicotine?
 
:jaw: that clinches it for me. . . Bad bad bad.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on November 23, 2009, 03:37:44 pm
Huh?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: BloodEagle on November 23, 2009, 05:08:08 pm
The issue that most of us are having is that these people are TOO flawed to have been in the situation they were in before they got onto Destiny.

Like what? I've been watching the show and I don't really see any major flaws.

 :eek:

That is exactly what I want. I don't want villains and heroes.

 :blah:

That's why they had to keep ramping up the bad guys all the time. They ended the first show by practically beating gods. I guess all in a days work, right? I got tired of watching the same half dozen people kick the ass of an advanced race or teaching pseudo medieval cultures all about modern society.

I hated that nonsense, which is why I stopped watching around six seasons in.

I'm not sure what you guys want. Them to get control of the ship and fly around shooting funny looking aliens?

I want something to happen that doesn't involve gratuitous (you'd think it was a crew made up of rabbits, or something) sex scenes that are only there to secure the testosterone laden masses block, angsty whining that is only there to secure the angsty whining masses block, and political backstabbery that is only there so that morons can think that they're watching something deep.

These are the people I expect to see on projects because these are the people we see every day. Brilliant scientists with antisocial behavior. Soldiers with no one to fight.

A top-secret operation would not be made up of everyday people.

That was what I hated about Stargate. No one suffered from stress, or was scared.

Ye-e-e-e-eah. Sure. Whatever you say. They never succumbed to stress. Not once. Never. Nada. Zilch. Oh, except for, you know, this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCcHqmA9lfU).

In fact, they (the cast) succumbed to those type of problems quite often. They had personal troubles. They had flaws. The difference is that you weren't hit over the head with an angst mallet in the original.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on November 23, 2009, 05:11:57 pm
Okay, what I got from that post was 'I don't like the show, I'll try to state my subjective dislike in objective terms.'

You don't have to dislike it, but it's not particularly charitable to call viewers morons.

If you think that people generally handle their problems by squirting ketchup and mustard on a plate then you have not had many problems.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on November 23, 2009, 05:54:41 pm
The issue that most of us are having is that these people are TOO flawed to have been in the situation they were in before they got onto Destiny.

Like what? I've been watching the show and I don't really see any major flaws.

 :eek:

That's a smilie, not a flaw really.

That is exactly what I want. I don't want villains and heroes.

 :blah:

Yes of course. Let's just put the bad guys in black cowboy hats and the good guys in white hats. How come it has to be Jesus vs Hitler? Why can't they be more like real people?

That's why they had to keep ramping up the bad guys all the time. They ended the first show by practically beating gods. I guess all in a days work, right? I got tired of watching the same half dozen people kick the ass of an advanced race or teaching pseudo medieval cultures all about modern society.

I hated that nonsense, which is why I stopped watching around six seasons in.

Good, we'll touch on this later on.

I'm not sure what you guys want. Them to get control of the ship and fly around shooting funny looking aliens?

I want something to happen that doesn't involve gratuitous (you'd think it was a crew made up of rabbits, or something) sex scenes that are only there to secure the testosterone laden masses block, angsty whining that is only there to secure the angsty whining masses block, and political backstabbery that is only there so that morons can think that they're watching something deep.

So shooting aliens with lasers then? Wow, a mass of people locked on a ship and they're depressed, sexually frustrasted and feel powerless. Man, that would never happen to anyone.

Why don't they do realistic stuff like hack the computer of the millenia old ship and go on a fun filled jaunt through the stars.

These are the people I expect to see on projects because these are the people we see every day. Brilliant scientists with antisocial behavior. Soldiers with no one to fight.

A top-secret operation would not be made up of everyday people.

Yea they are. These people aren't made in some lab. They're all gonna have flaws of some kind. You can weed out the crazies and assholes pretty well, but you'll never get perfect people.

I don't think many of those on the ship went through the "We're going to toss you on an ancient ship waaay out there and you'll probably never get back" training exercise.

People go through training all the time and fail in the real life scenarios.

You got tired of people winning all the time. These people need to make mistakes in order to lose. If they aren't flawed how can you explain them losing?

That was what I hated about Stargate. No one suffered from stress, or was scared.

Ye-e-e-e-eah. Sure. Whatever you say. They never succumbed to stress. Not once. Never. Nada. Zilch. Oh, except for, you know, this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCcHqmA9lfU).

Oh my god, after what could have been months in a time loop drove him to draw a face on a plate with mustard and ketchup! That guy is one step from the looney bin.

In fact, they (the cast) succumbed to those type of problems quite often. They had personal troubles. They had flaws. The difference is that you weren't hit over the head with an angst mallet in the original.

Like what? Rush wants to be in control, probably because he's used to being in charge due to his intelligence. Young wants to be in charge due to his rank. The civilians are depressed and lonely because they can do jack all to fix anything and there are some soldiers who are hot heads.

None of this is out of the realm of normal behavior for a situation such as this. No one is cutting themselves, or seeing things, or trying to kill everyone else (except that one bald soldier, I am gonna love when he snaps).

You'd think the way we were talking these guys were on the event horizon or something.

When they start painting their faces with the blood of their enemies and try to find the magical god that lives inside the walls, then we'll talk.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on November 23, 2009, 05:55:41 pm
Okay, what I got from that post was 'I don't like the show, I'll try to state my subjective dislike in objective terms.'

You don't have to dislike it, but it's not particularly charitable to call viewers morons.

Who called someone a moron?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 23, 2009, 06:25:33 pm
I'm saying I'm glad they took the method of portraying people in the old Stargate shows (among other types) and threw it right out.

These people have no flaws. I personally find that to be the most unrealistic of all (given it's a sci fi theme).

There is no drama with people who handle everything with a smile and witty comment. I want to watch regular people handling some weird sci fi stuff, and no always correctly.

I think this scenario where everyone is perfect like Stargate did was just... well, flawed. I seriously doubt it would ever be like that.

So basically, you want S9/S10 of SG-1, or almost all of Atlantis, or stuff scattered throughout earlier SG seasons, or...you get the picture.

Or were you not paying attention for those?

You'd think the way we were talking these guys were on the event horizon or something.

When they start painting their faces with the blood of their enemies and try to find the magical god that lives inside the walls, then we'll talk.

But that's just it.

For their group, they are. The SGC has every reason to select on your ability to handle this kinda ****, because what they're suffering is not worse than things that have been suffered in previous shows, and because your ability to handle it is also of great importance to your ability to keep the fact that the SGC and offworld travel exists secret. So you're either telling me the selection process managed to consistantly **** up for what amounts to nearly everyone on the show, or...what?

Maybe you don't like it when they portray people as disciplined, motivated, and capable, but wtf do you expect they're going to be if they've been selected for a job that involves possibly being the first humans anybody ever met? What do you think they're going to be when their being disciplined, motivated, and capable could easily be all that stands between humanity and utter destruction? These are the best and the brightest humanity has? Hell no.

BSG had an excuse, as I outlined earlier in the thread, for a high proportion of losers and ****ups. SGU doesn't. And it took longer for breakdown to assert itself on BSG, in what was a considerably more realistic treatment of the issue!
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on November 23, 2009, 06:38:55 pm
...portray people as disciplined, motivated, and capable...
This type of behavior is becoming more and more unacceptable in modern life...
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on November 23, 2009, 06:59:16 pm
I'm saying I'm glad they took the method of portraying people in the old Stargate shows (among other types) and threw it right out.

These people have no flaws. I personally find that to be the most unrealistic of all (given it's a sci fi theme).

There is no drama with people who handle everything with a smile and witty comment. I want to watch regular people handling some weird sci fi stuff, and no always correctly.

I think this scenario where everyone is perfect like Stargate did was just... well, flawed. I seriously doubt it would ever be like that.

So basically, you want S9/S10 of SG-1, or almost all of Atlantis, or stuff scattered throughout earlier SG seasons, or...you get the picture.

Or were you not paying attention for those?

No, I like this new one just fine so far.

I got tired of people making jokes Rodney McKay could fix anything, and then he would fix it. I would never really watch an episode and think "Someone might not make it out of this one" or "I wonder what they'll do?" because I already knew the answer. Smile, toss around witty lines and save the day.

Watching them take out the Goa'uld, the Replicators and then the Ori.

There is still the distinct possibility that almost any one of those people on that ship could die next episode.

You'd think the way we were talking these guys were on the event horizon or something.

When they start painting their faces with the blood of their enemies and try to find the magical god that lives inside the walls, then we'll talk.

But that's just it.

For their group, they are. The SGC has every reason to select on your ability to handle this kinda ****, because what they're suffering is not worse than things that have been suffered in previous shows, and because your ability to handle it is also of great importance to your ability to keep the fact that the SGC and offworld travel exists secret. So you're either telling me the selection process managed to consistantly **** up for what amounts to nearly everyone on the show, or...what?

If I think the other shows did it wrong, why would I want this show to follow on the same ideas? A Stargate mythos with a different feel. The original Stargate theme was great for a time, but it's worn thin. They're almost caricatures of people.


Maybe you don't like it when they portray people as disciplined, motivated, and capable, but wtf do you expect they're going to be if they've been selected for a job that involves possibly being the first humans anybody ever met? What do you think they're going to be when their being disciplined, motivated, and capable could easily be all that stands between humanity and utter destruction? These are the best and the brightest humanity has? Hell no.

First off, no. I fully expect some of the best and brightest to go off the deep end when placed in a situation like that. Is everyone gonna go nuts? No of course not. Young is fine, other than having to fight Rush and being jealous. Scott is fine, Carter lite whatever her name is is fine. Eli is fine. Greer and Rush are exactly how they were before they left. Short the people getting angry and depressed (normal responses) no one is really going nuts.

Secondly, what are these military people not doing? They have nothing to do so what are they missing? There is no one to kill, no one to guard really. Other than setting up a command structure that's fairly obvious, what do these soldiers do all day, every day? Guard doors?

Yea, I think people who are used to a highly structured and disciplined way of life are gonna be a little on edge when that all goes away and they get to sit in what is really just a box for.... well, who knows how long.

Everyone keeps saying these soldiers are breaking down in discipline. How? What are they doing?

BSG had an excuse, as I outlined earlier in the thread, for a high proportion of losers and ****ups. SGU doesn't. And it took longer for breakdown to assert itself on BSG, in what was a considerably more realistic treatment of the issue!

What breakdown? Young is still in charge. The civilians haven't started a revolt. If they were all running around happy go lucky, then I'd think they were nuts.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 23, 2009, 08:01:52 pm
So basically, you don't actually argue, you just dismiss. Got it.

If I think the other shows did it wrong, why would I want this show to follow on the same ideas? A Stargate mythos with a different feel. The original Stargate theme was great for a time, but it's worn thin. They're almost caricatures of people.

That's not even arguing with my point. You're saying "I dun like that portrayal" as if it that makes a factual counter to the fact I'm pointing out that this is against the Stargate mythos. You're also not arguing my point that this is not behavior we would expect from people of the required calibur to get into the Stargate program.

First off, no. I fully expect some of the best and brightest to go off the deep end when placed in a situation like that. Is everyone gonna go nuts? No of course not. Young is fine, other than having to fight Rush and being jealous. Scott is fine, Carter lite whatever her name is is fine. Eli is fine. Greer and Rush are exactly how they were before they left. Short the people getting angry and depressed (normal responses) no one is really going nuts.

But they're not normal responses. If they were responding normally, we would expect them to be able to hold it in, suck it up, and carry forward, considering the group of people we're talking about. We just now ought to be seeing it start coming to the surface in a restrained way.

Secondly, what are these military people not doing? They have nothing to do so what are they missing? There is no one to kill, no one to guard really. Other than setting up a command structure that's fairly obvious, what do these soldiers do all day, every day? Guard doors?

What do you think military people do in peacetime, exactly? Yeah, we ought to see them guard doors or critical bits of machinery. We ought to see them watching the gate. We ought to see them run training exercises to familarize with the ship's layout. Their organization has taken a recent heavy hit, so assuming they're competent we ought to be seeing them running a lot of exercises while they reorganize and integrate with their new team. It's either that, PT, or study things. Deck plans, weapons, etc. That's what the military spends most of its time doing.

Yea, I think people who are used to a highly structured and disciplined way of life are gonna be a little on edge when that all goes away and they get to sit in what is really just a box for.... well, who knows how long.

Which isn't how it works, since they brought that life with them. One of the key indicators the show is crap is that it's pretending they didn't; BSG recognized that they did. Also, sitting in a box for who knows how long is also part and parcel of military life, though sometimes the box is more of a hole in the ground. They should be used to that.

For that matter, they weren't from the SGC. They've been sitting in a box for who knows how long already.

Everyone keeps saying these soldiers are breaking down in discipline. How? What are they doing?

I'm pretty sure the first episode including a fairly big breach of the regs alone. Everything else cited above indicates that their officers are ****, which is both out of character and the fact it's not ongoing or touched on or even possible would indicate both a breakdown of discipline and an attending degradation of skills. These are elite troops to even be here. They probably should have organized what I describe with or without their commander's screwups. They didn't. That's breakdown.

Having known and worked with both military and special forces people all my life, the situation the show presents is an accurate portrayal of neither. SG-1 and Atlantis could get away with not portraying this because the teams were always on-mission when we saw them. BSG could because we viewed it through the lense of men high up the ranks (yes, even Tyrol; ask anyone and they'll say a CPO is easily a more responsible position than a lieutenant) and even then it typically threw us some bones. This isn't what's going on here. Instead we got them wandering around doing **** at random.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on November 23, 2009, 08:06:51 pm
...portray people as disciplined, motivated, and capable...
This type of behavior is becoming more and more unacceptable in modern life...

Cite please? Any evidence?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on November 23, 2009, 08:27:08 pm
Okay, after a quick review of the recent episodes, it looks like the military members of the crew have in fact been doing everything NGTM-1R wanted them to.

So I'm not sure what the problem is?

I wasn't initially a big fan of this show, given the fact that the writing never hits the mark it's aiming for, but this roundabout criticism makes me think people actually don't like it just because it's not SG-1 and ironically predisposes me to give it more of a chance.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on November 23, 2009, 08:42:11 pm
NGTM-1R what you are forgetting is that this is a Hollywood show.  And while the first Stargate show worked closely with the Air Force to make sure they got every detail right, the mentality is extremely prevalent that the military, every branch of the military, is filled with people who "couldn't hack it" in civilian life.

That mentality is reflected in the tone and bearing of the show.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on November 23, 2009, 08:44:51 pm
I really don't think it is.

Hollywood is often extraordinarily respectful to the military. Moreover, the people in charge of this show are the same ones who were in charge of SG-1, so why would that respect have changed?

Spend some time with the troops via websites, blogs, and personal accounts, and you'll find a group of people as diverse as anyone else - including plenty who couldn't cut it, even the most far out SpecOps unit.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Turambar on November 23, 2009, 08:54:17 pm
I know I sure wouldn't join the army unless I had exhausted every single possible option, or if we were fighting a defensive war.  I'm sure as hell not going to put my life on the line to line the pockets of the rich.

But yeah, I'm going to need several people to tell me that this show is awesome before i go ahead and give it a chance.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on November 23, 2009, 09:14:07 pm
So basically, you don't actually argue, you just dismiss. Got it.

If I think the other shows did it wrong, why would I want this show to follow on the same ideas? A Stargate mythos with a different feel. The original Stargate theme was great for a time, but it's worn thin. They're almost caricatures of people.

That's not even arguing with my point. You're saying "I dun like that portrayal" as if it that makes a factual counter to the fact I'm pointing out that this is against the Stargate mythos. You're also not arguing my point that this is not behavior we would expect from people of the required calibur to get into the Stargate program.

Then you're not listening. I don't care if it's completely against what happened in Stargate and Atlantis.

You're saying "That's not how it works in Stargate" and I'm saying "I know, that's cool. Keep doing that."

I want them to distance themselves from that thinking, not embrace it.

First off, no. I fully expect some of the best and brightest to go off the deep end when placed in a situation like that. Is everyone gonna go nuts? No of course not. Young is fine, other than having to fight Rush and being jealous. Scott is fine, Carter lite whatever her name is is fine. Eli is fine. Greer and Rush are exactly how they were before they left. Short the people getting angry and depressed (normal responses) no one is really going nuts.

But they're not normal responses. If they were responding normally, we would expect them to be able to hold it in, suck it up, and carry forward, considering the group of people we're talking about. We just now ought to be seeing it start coming to the surface in a restrained way.

I would expect the shock and sudden troubles to be the biggest jolt and then for them to settle down as they start to get a grasp on things.

Thinking you're jumping one place, ending up another. Trapped, alone, maybe never ever getting home.

The fact that you think everyone is just gonna go "Well let's go do our duty" after they think they got basically a death sentence is a little odd.

Secondly, what are these military people not doing? They have nothing to do so what are they missing? There is no one to kill, no one to guard really. Other than setting up a command structure that's fairly obvious, what do these soldiers do all day, every day? Guard doors?

What do you think military people do in peacetime, exactly? Yeah, we ought to see them guard doors or critical bits of machinery. We ought to see them watching the gate. We ought to see them run training exercises to familarize with the ship's layout. Their organization has taken a recent heavy hit, so assuming they're competent we ought to be seeing them running a lot of exercises while they reorganize and integrate with their new team. It's either that, PT, or study things. Deck plans, weapons, etc. That's what the military spends most of its time doing.

Guarding machinery? From who? Saboteurs?

How long does it take to get the layout of a ship? How many days or weeks have these people been there?

I mean seriously, you want these guys running simulations all day? To fight an enemy that doesn't exist? They already do PT, they showed it in the last episode. In peacetime, there is still someone else out there. Even if they are a friend or a stranger, there is still someone there. Who are they planning to fight?

And quite frankly, what makes you think they didn't do all this already? That they didn't have a nice little montage of it?

Yea, I think people who are used to a highly structured and disciplined way of life are gonna be a little on edge when that all goes away and they get to sit in what is really just a box for.... well, who knows how long.

Which isn't how it works, since they brought that life with them. One of the key indicators the show is crap is that it's pretending they didn't; BSG recognized that they did. Also, sitting in a box for who knows how long is also part and parcel of military life, though sometimes the box is more of a hole in the ground. They should be used to that.

For that matter, they weren't from the SGC. They've been sitting in a box for who knows how long already.

That's what I'm telling you, they brought a certain way of living to a place that just doesn't need it. There is nothing for these soldiers to do. They can salute and do whatever but there is no one to fight and no one who needs protecting.

Everyone keeps saying these soldiers are breaking down in discipline. How? What are they doing?

I'm pretty sure the first episode including a fairly big breach of the regs alone. Everything else cited above indicates that their officers are ****, which is both out of character and the fact it's not ongoing or touched on or even possible would indicate both a breakdown of discipline and an attending degradation of skills. These are elite troops to even be here. They probably should have organized what I describe with or without their commander's screwups. They didn't. That's breakdown.

I like how you don't give any examples. What did the officers do that was out of line? What did the enlisted soldiers do that was so degrading?

I just get the feeling this is you being mad because you don't see them doing practice drills. That instead of doing maneuvers all day they're sitting on their asses. It would be insanely boring to have a show of soldiers running around playing cowboys and indians against no one.

Having known and worked with both military and special forces people all my life, the situation the show presents is an accurate portrayal of neither. SG-1 and Atlantis could get away with not portraying this because the teams were always on-mission when we saw them. BSG could because we viewed it through the lense of men high up the ranks (yes, even Tyrol; ask anyone and they'll say a CPO is easily a more responsible position than a lieutenant) and even then it typically threw us some bones. This isn't what's going on here. Instead we got them wandering around doing **** at random.

They're in a ship! They're not on a mission. There is no one to fight, nowhere to go. How do you plan to fight an enemy that isn't there? There is no enemy in this show (yet). There may never be. I have no idea what they're doing with this show. There could never be another humanoid or other kind of life form (outside that weird foggy thing).
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on November 23, 2009, 09:18:04 pm
NGTM-1R what you are forgetting is that this is a Hollywood show.  And while the first Stargate show worked closely with the Air Force to make sure they got every detail right, the mentality is extremely prevalent that the military, every branch of the military, is filled with people who "couldn't hack it" in civilian life.

That mentality is reflected in the tone and bearing of the show.

A lot of the people on that show (especially the military) are probably doing way better than I would be doing. I think most people would act like the civilians, be totally bummed, not do a damn thing and yell at the people in charge for not fixing it.

That's the funny part of all this. I think they're mostly fine soldiers placed in a super weird place and are trying to cope. Other people think these guys are total goons cause they aren't doing pushups and running drills all day.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Colonol Dekker on November 24, 2009, 01:54:32 am
To even cite real life  :rolleyes: knowledge and experience connections Ngtm1r in the context of discussing this scifi is in pretty poor taste. Substitue stargate for that wormhole command extreme in series spinoff and you'll see why any spec ops you know would be instantly pissed for the association let alone dropping the ball and announcing the ball.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 24, 2009, 02:54:28 am
A Stargate mythos with a different feel.

You're saying "That's not how it works in Stargate" and I'm saying "I know, that's cool. Keep doing that."

You're backsliding.

I would expect the shock and sudden troubles to be the biggest jolt and then for them to settle down as they start to get a grasp on things.

Thinking you're jumping one place, ending up another. Trapped, alone, maybe never ever getting home.

The fact that you think everyone is just gonna go "Well let's go do our duty" after they think they got basically a death sentence is a little odd.

Shock is something they're trained to deal with, otherwise they're not going to handle combat well. Longterm stress is rather less so.

Wait, wait, you think they dialed the ship by accident? They didn't know where they'd go? It's a nine-symbol address. They knew they might end up in a godforsaken situation. They probably even expected it. Eventual death was simply preferable to immediate death. Also considering the history of the SGC, one would think they would know full well that going through a gate without a recon is a good way to die. (We've seen stargates that can't be turned on from their side, stargates linking to worlds where unprotected humans cannot survive, one that goes to well within the event horizon of a black hole...)

Guarding machinery? From who? Saboteurs?

Aren't you the one who said they're in a deathtrap? What if somebody decides they want it short and quick than long and slow?

How long does it take to get the layout of a ship? How many days or weeks have these people been there?

Depends on the size of the ship, number of compartments, and level of familiarity. We have every reason to believe this one's pretty large; not Atlantis-large, perhaps, but perhaps an aircraft carrier? That's gonna be at least several hundred compartments or so. You need to be able to do it on an instinctual level and be able to trace multiple paths if possible to any one point. And you have to do it at regular intervals to maintain such familarity. It's called "refresher training".

We don't know that, do we? But then, see below.

I mean seriously, you want these guys running simulations all day? To fight an enemy that doesn't exist? They already do PT, they showed it in the last episode.
In peacetime, there is still someone else out there. Even if they are a friend or a stranger, there is still someone there. Who are they planning to fight?

And quite frankly, what makes you think they didn't do all this already? That they didn't have a nice little montage of it?

I stand corrected on the PT.

As for the rest: That lack of a present enemy does not imply the lack of a future one. As many things from fighting one enemy are similar to fighting others, it is not impossible to plan to fight an enemy you do not know. I'll give them a bye on basic marksmanship, for not damaging the ship or expending stuff they may not be able to replace, but you can practice almost everything else.

This show has adopted certain conventions, particularly tailending episodes into each other, that create the impression of dense time. As such, if we do not see things happening, we have reasonable cause to believe they aren't. I mean sure, you could say they are, but when the show's doing the dense-time thing that's its problematic at best. SG-1 handled it with having people be in their non-offworld jobs, Daniel and Carter in their research spaces, to reassure us that they're doing other stuff. Atlantis had Shepard turning in fitness reports for the people he was commanding or talking with people he reported to or people who reported to him. Subtle cues, but there.

Now granted, the dense time could simply mean they're simply proceeding from one crisis to the next endlessly so they don't have time to do anything else, but then I would expect that might actually help. And as you noted the last episode sort of showed them doing something else.

That's what I'm telling you, they brought a certain way of living to a place that just doesn't need it. There is nothing for these soldiers to do. They can salute and do whatever but there is no one to fight and no one who needs protecting.

At the moment. (But see my short-and-quick comment above.) However, you've described the way the military already viewed itself. The mission of a soldier in Western society is not to fight, but to be ready to fight. This is an important distinction on the basis of having a hammer and things beginning to look like nails. Fighting will come if it will come.

I like how you don't give any examples. What did the officers do that was out of line? What did the enlisted soldiers do that was so degrading?

I just get the feeling this is you being mad because you don't see them doing practice drills. That instead of doing maneuvers all day they're sitting on their asses. It would be insanely boring to have a show of soldiers running around playing cowboys and indians against no one.

I already gave you examples. It's called inactivity. That none of these things seem to be happening in any real way is the symptoms of decay. If you're not doing anything, you're getting worse. That's how humans work. You don't practice, you not only don't get better, you lose your touch. I'm not asking for them to be doing that all show, I'm asking for them to be doing it at all. As for the breach of regs, fraternization mean anything to you? At all?

They're in a ship! They're not on a mission. There is no one to fight, nowhere to go. How do you plan to fight an enemy that isn't there? There is no enemy in this show (yet). There may never be. I have no idea what they're doing with this show. There could never be another humanoid or other kind of life form (outside that weird foggy thing).

Point A: you're not actually reading what I wrote if you're complaining they're not on-mission as if that helps; that they're not on-mission is exactly why it DOESN'T help.
Point B: The same way you plan to fight any enemy. You come up with scenarios. You run them. In this case, they might be somewhat more outlandish than the others, but you still run them. There are two very good reasons for this. Just because you don't have an enemy now does not mean there will never be, and more importantly, le cafard: Armed people. With nothing to occupy their time. Bad **** happens.

To even cite real life knowledge and experience connections Ngtm1r in the context of discussing this scifi is in pretty poor taste. Substitue stargate for that wormhole command extreme in series spinoff and you'll see why any spec ops you know would be instantly pissed for the association let alone dropping the ball and announcing the ball. 

Explain your reasoning. It does not appear sound. I'm claiming the show says it's about something, and it's not portraying it well or indeed at all. I could claim the same thing about SG-1, and be right, but it certainly did it better and was probably about as ideal as things were going to get with licensed scriptwriters at the helm. What's your point?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Colonol Dekker on November 24, 2009, 03:19:38 am
My point is that it obviously doesn't portray it well. It goes without saying in fact, dropping the  "i know people card" is irrelevant. If you know a milkman does that make you an expert on milling machines and float maintenance?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on November 24, 2009, 08:57:19 am
A Stargate mythos with a different feel.

You're saying "That's not how it works in Stargate" and I'm saying "I know, that's cool. Keep doing that."

You're backsliding.

I want a big ring, wormholes, the Air Force, the same techno babble they had before.... that's about it. This "Best of the best stuff"? Yea that's what I want out.

I would expect the shock and sudden troubles to be the biggest jolt and then for them to settle down as they start to get a grasp on things.

Thinking you're jumping one place, ending up another. Trapped, alone, maybe never ever getting home.

The fact that you think everyone is just gonna go "Well let's go do our duty" after they think they got basically a death sentence is a little odd.

Shock is something they're trained to deal with, otherwise they're not going to handle combat well. Longterm stress is rather less so.

Wait, wait, you think they dialed the ship by accident? They didn't know where they'd go? It's a nine-symbol address. They knew they might end up in a godforsaken situation. They probably even expected it. Eventual death was simply preferable to immediate death. Also considering the history of the SGC, one would think they would know full well that going through a gate without a recon is a good way to die. (We've seen stargates that can't be turned on from their side, stargates linking to worlds where unprotected humans cannot survive, one that goes to well within the event horizon of a black hole...)

The people not in the gate room? And even some who were but just didn't know? Yea I'm pretty sure they were expecting a military base of some kind. You're also assuming that just because they expected it means they could cope with it. Soldiers freak out about more mundane stuff all the time, so I would assume better trained could still freak out if the stuff was massively messed up.

Guarding machinery? From who? Saboteurs?

Aren't you the one who said they're in a deathtrap? What if somebody decides they want it short and quick than long and slow?

They're either elite trained operatives or they aren't. If these guys are all duty and discipline, then no, they don't have to worry about it. What if one of the civilians decides to start killing people? You can do a hundred what ifs, but all you're going to see are a few guards walking around on patrols or watching the gate room or something.

How long does it take to get the layout of a ship? How many days or weeks have these people been there?

Depends on the size of the ship, number of compartments, and level of familiarity. We have every reason to believe this one's pretty large; not Atlantis-large, perhaps, but perhaps an aircraft carrier? That's gonna be at least several hundred compartments or so. You need to be able to do it on an instinctual level and be able to trace multiple paths if possible to any one point. And you have to do it at regular intervals to maintain such familarity. It's called "refresher training".

They're still working through sections of the ships. They probably haven't even made much of a dent in the layout. And quite frankly, if anything gets on the ship, it's probably coming through the gate.


I mean seriously, you want these guys running simulations all day? To fight an enemy that doesn't exist? They already do PT, they showed it in the last episode.
In peacetime, there is still someone else out there. Even if they are a friend or a stranger, there is still someone there. Who are they planning to fight?

And quite frankly, what makes you think they didn't do all this already? That they didn't have a nice little montage of it?

I stand corrected on the PT.

As for the rest: That lack of a present enemy does not imply the lack of a future one. As many things from fighting one enemy are similar to fighting others, it is not impossible to plan to fight an enemy you do not know. I'll give them a bye on basic marksmanship, for not damaging the ship or expending stuff they may not be able to replace, but you can practice almost everything else.

This show has adopted certain conventions, particularly tailending episodes into each other, that create the impression of dense time. As such, if we do not see things happening, we have reasonable cause to believe they aren't. I mean sure, you could say they are, but when the show's doing the dense-time thing that's its problematic at best. SG-1 handled it with having people be in their non-offworld jobs, Daniel and Carter in their research spaces, to reassure us that they're doing other stuff. Atlantis had Shepard turning in fitness reports for the people he was commanding or talking with people he reported to or people who reported to him. Subtle cues, but there.

These people have nothing to do. There is no off base job, no books, no TV, no nothing. These people have been on the ship at the least a few days at the most a few weeks. There are certain hints to this throughout the show (mainly if they did all this in a short time it would be like an episode of 24).

So probably 90% of people's time is spent staring out the window or something. Are the military guys doing training? Almost positive. Did they set up defensive plans? Almost positive, we saw them do it on the planet in Time. Are they going to be acting like they're back on a base? Probably not.

They aren't on a base on some planet, or in some town. They're on a ship in hyperspace. There are very few places that you could consider safer from an outside aggressor. 99% sure that aggressor comes through the gate. Could they come through the hull or something? Sure. If they do, the training exercises these guys do won't help much then.

Now granted, the dense time could simply mean they're simply proceeding from one crisis to the next endlessly so they don't have time to do anything else, but then I would expect that might actually help. And as you noted the last episode sort of showed them doing something else.

I would say long amounts of time with nothing to do and they don't show the mundane military stuff because it would be super boring.

That's what I'm telling you, they brought a certain way of living to a place that just doesn't need it. There is nothing for these soldiers to do. They can salute and do whatever but there is no one to fight and no one who needs protecting.

At the moment. (But see my short-and-quick comment above.) However, you've described the way the military already viewed itself. The mission of a soldier in Western society is not to fight, but to be ready to fight. This is an important distinction on the basis of having a hammer and things beginning to look like nails. Fighting will come if it will come.

I don't think they're not ready to fight. It seems you think they are. I just don't think they're doing the constant drilling you think they should be doing.

I like how you don't give any examples. What did the officers do that was out of line? What did the enlisted soldiers do that was so degrading?

I just get the feeling this is you being mad because you don't see them doing practice drills. That instead of doing maneuvers all day they're sitting on their asses. It would be insanely boring to have a show of soldiers running around playing cowboys and indians against no one.

I already gave you examples. It's called inactivity. That none of these things seem to be happening in any real way is the symptoms of decay. If you're not doing anything, you're getting worse. That's how humans work. You don't practice, you not only don't get better, you lose your touch. I'm not asking for them to be doing that all show, I'm asking for them to be doing it at all. As for the breach of regs, fraternization mean anything to you? At all?

We've watched nine hours of what could be weeks. These soldiers aren't drilling all day every day, so why show it?  I didn't seem them taking a poop but I assumed they did.

That's the breakdown? Fraternization? That's the thing? Something people probably do all the time on the sly? Something they haven't really done since? Let's all just put them in front of the firing squad.

They're in a ship! They're not on a mission. There is no one to fight, nowhere to go. How do you plan to fight an enemy that isn't there? There is no enemy in this show (yet). There may never be. I have no idea what they're doing with this show. There could never be another humanoid or other kind of life form (outside that weird foggy thing).

Point A: you're not actually reading what I wrote if you're complaining they're not on-mission as if that helps; that they're not on-mission is exactly why it DOESN'T help.
Point B: The same way you plan to fight any enemy. You come up with scenarios. You run them. In this case, they might be somewhat more outlandish than the others, but you still run them. There are two very good reasons for this. Just because you don't have an enemy now does not mean there will never be, and more importantly, le cafard: Armed people. With nothing to occupy their time. Bad **** happens.

People with no enemy to fight and nothing to do tend to have bad things happen. You don't say. Couldn't that be what is happening right now?

Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on November 24, 2009, 09:16:22 am
I really don't see how they've been at all inactive. Each episode has shown them guarding key areas, progressively exploring the ship, and attempting to train new personnel in vital functions.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on November 24, 2009, 11:41:10 am
I really don't see how they've been at all inactive. Each episode has shown them guarding key areas, progressively exploring the ship, and attempting to train new personnel in vital functions.

We must be watching different shows then, 'cause I haven't.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on November 24, 2009, 12:10:03 pm
I'm pretty sure that's how they found the chair.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Mars on November 24, 2009, 12:31:26 pm
You don't like it, and you're not going to convince me or anyone else. I really don't see what there is to discuss down that line.

I want to talk about the show, not how much you don't want to watch it. One or two comments critiquing it would have sufficed.
 
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Colonol Dekker on November 24, 2009, 02:14:30 pm
I got no problem with people liking it.
 
Just that one niggly post.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on November 24, 2009, 03:17:05 pm
I really don't see how they've been at all inactive. Each episode has shown them guarding key areas, progressively exploring the ship, and attempting to train new personnel in vital functions.

We must be watching different shows then, 'cause I haven't.

I guess you're watching a different show, then.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: IceFire on November 24, 2009, 05:58:48 pm
So....

What happened between the episode with the jungle and everyone dying... and Life.  There's a very weird continuity thing going on there...
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: carbine7 on November 24, 2009, 06:03:51 pm
That was strange....but I guess they got Scott's message and didn't go to the planet and continued on like normal, which in itself is a bit strange.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: IceFire on November 24, 2009, 06:06:46 pm
That was strange....but I guess they got Scott's message and didn't go to the planet and continued on like normal, which in itself is a bit strange.
You'd think they would follow up on that... because the contaminate was still in the water supply.  So people were going to start getting sick and dying no matter what.

That one was a mind twister... and still is!
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: carbine7 on November 24, 2009, 06:07:57 pm
Come to think of it, I don't know what happened now that you remind me of the water. Seems like they dropped an episode from the series.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on November 24, 2009, 06:52:47 pm
I thought they just left it up to the viewer about what happened. He told them how to fix it and they're alive.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on November 24, 2009, 10:14:53 pm
Nope, actually, it was completely resolved in one of the webisodes on the SG:U site.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: BloodEagle on November 24, 2009, 10:37:46 pm
Nope, actually, it was completely resolved in one of the webisodes on the SG:U site.

Bad form on their part, then.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Scotty on November 24, 2009, 10:43:46 pm
Presenting opinions as fact is fun!

Seriously, maybe it didn't warrant an entire episode, or even part of one, to resolve completely when everyone already knew how to fix it (at least, that's the vibe I'm getting from responses).
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on November 24, 2009, 11:05:25 pm
Nope, actually, it was completely resolved in one of the webisodes on the SG:U site.

Bad form on their part, then.

No, it was smart form. The episode wrapped the story up nicely, it didn't need any more.

I think the audience is intelligent enough that we don't need everything laid out on a flowchart and handed on us.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: BloodEagle on November 25, 2009, 09:57:10 am
 :wtf: is with everyone putting words into my mouth, in this thread? I'm starting to choke, here.  :ick:

Nope, actually, it was completely resolved in one of the webisodes on the SG:U site.

Bad form on their part, then.

No, it was smart form. The episode wrapped the story up nicely, it didn't need any more.

I think the audience is intelligent enough that we don't need everything laid out on a flowchart and handed on us.

I meant that it was bad form (which isn't 'stupid form', as your above post indicates) to hide canon material. Sheesh.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on November 25, 2009, 12:01:13 pm
Yeah, maybe. I'm not sure how confused I would have been if I hadn't been pointed to that webisode.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: IceFire on November 25, 2009, 04:57:33 pm
Nope, actually, it was completely resolved in one of the webisodes on the SG:U site.
It was?  Is this something that Canadian viewers can see?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: lostllama on November 26, 2009, 08:55:21 am
Nope, actually, it was completely resolved in one of the webisodes on the SG:U site.
It was?  Is this something that Canadian viewers can see?

I think so, try this (http://stargate.mgm.com/browse/videos/limit/8/offset/8/index.html) and look for the "Kino 18 - New Kind of Crazy" featurette.

(Spoilers therein for those that haven't seen episode 8 ("Time") yet).
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on December 04, 2009, 09:17:01 pm
It's official.  There are no good guys on this show.  Merely different levels of darkness.  No light AT ALL.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Mars on December 04, 2009, 11:49:19 pm
That was the best episode yet.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on December 05, 2009, 12:06:01 am
It's official.  There are no good guys on this show.  Merely different levels of darkness.  No light AT ALL.

So exactly like real life then.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 05, 2009, 01:14:28 am
So exactly like real life then.

Yes, no such thing as altruism exists at all, blah blah blah, go join Nuke.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on December 05, 2009, 01:39:11 am
So exactly like real life then.

Yes, no such thing as altruism exists at all, blah blah blah, go join Nuke.

I seem to recall watching the Senator saving them at the expense of his own life.

It's the total good people that bother me, because they don't exist in real life.

Every single person is bad in some way. It IS just different levels.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: The E on December 05, 2009, 07:11:47 am
This Ep was just what I want to see of this show. Really liking it.

Also, I want the Soundtrack. It's almost Bear McCreary quality.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: QuantumDelta on December 05, 2009, 10:27:18 am
Really?
This ep made me lol.
Rush will be back in a couple weeks having learnt to fly the ship that miraculously also has a universe-spanning flight drive despite it's tiny size.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Well, it wouldn't surprise me.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: DREDHAWK on December 05, 2009, 06:37:23 pm
I thot that was the lasted episode until next year.  i could be wrong.  SGU starting to get interesting had a slow start.   i sure rush will be back.  hell even if he was shot in the head i sure some how he would come back.  i seen plenty if sci fi show were you think a character i killed and some how they come back.   
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: MR_T3D on December 05, 2009, 07:08:46 pm
I thot that was the lasted episode until next year.  i could be wrong.  SGU starting to get interesting had a slow start.   i sure rush will be back.  hell even if he was shot in the head i sure some how he would come back.  i seen plenty if sci fi show were you think a character i killed and some how they come back.   
question i have is if he will beat danny's record of 'dying'
emphasis on the quotation marks
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: DREDHAWK on December 05, 2009, 07:13:55 pm
rush ant dead yet just got moron-ed on the planted.  i forgot about Danel from SG1   :lol:
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Ashrak on December 06, 2009, 02:58:16 am
ahaem, why dosent the ship have puddlejumpers or whatnot, what kind of an idiot makes an exploration ship wich makes you WALK :(
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: The E on December 06, 2009, 03:06:00 am
Off-Topic: The grammar here is degrading quickly.....


Anyway, it doesn't have puddle jumpers because those were supposedly NOT INVENTED YET. It does have a couple of shuttles though.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 06, 2009, 03:07:11 am
I seem to recall watching the Senator saving them at the expense of his own life.

It's the total good people that bother me, because they don't exist in real life.

Every single person is bad in some way. It IS just different levels.

Bad is a relative concept; altruism is not. And you've never seen a total good person on Stargate before, unless you're pretty myopic.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on December 06, 2009, 08:16:11 am
I seem to recall watching the Senator saving them at the expense of his own life.

It's the total good people that bother me, because they don't exist in real life.

Every single person is bad in some way. It IS just different levels.

Bad is a relative concept; altruism is not. And you've never seen a total good person on Stargate before, unless you're pretty myopic.

Didn't we just argue about Stargate being the best of the best and not having these problems?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 06, 2009, 10:04:58 am
Didn't we just argue about Stargate being the best of the best and not having these problems?

No, actually, we argued about not having these problems to this degree, a fact which seemed totally lost on you in your desire to strawman.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on December 06, 2009, 05:05:32 pm
Didn't we just argue about Stargate being the best of the best and not having these problems?

No, actually, we argued about not having these problems to this degree, a fact which seemed totally lost on you in your desire to strawman.

So then they ARE all varying levels of bad, just like real life. Which is what I said.

And you bring up the concept of altruism which was pretty well shot down but I'M the one with the strawman. Who ever brought up altruism in the show? You can still be altruistic and yet a total jerk.

But back to the main point, I'm glad the show does what I really wanted in a Stargate show. It shows people how they are in real life: selfish, greedy jerks.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on December 06, 2009, 05:31:30 pm
Seems some of us have lower opinions of humanity than others....
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: BloodEagle on December 06, 2009, 06:40:25 pm
Spoiler:
I will say this, I'm glad that someone was finally punished for their jackassery (even though he'll come back by the end of the next episode :/). Personally, I would have spaced him.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on December 06, 2009, 07:58:16 pm
Seems some of us have lower opinions of humanity than others....

All I have to do is open a history book or turn on the news.  *shrug*
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on December 06, 2009, 08:06:45 pm
I have quite a high opinion of humanity. The fact that human beings are simultaneously capable of great good and great evil (or moderate good and moderate evil, for that matter) does not change that. I thought Liberator was the one who hated everybody.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Thaeris on December 06, 2009, 08:22:15 pm
...You do realize that accusing him of hating everyone just encourages him to defend himself, trip on his own statements, and open him up for more criticism, right?...
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on December 06, 2009, 08:31:11 pm
It's not an 'accusation'. I just can't keep his statements straight.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: BloodEagle on December 06, 2009, 09:06:44 pm
It's not an 'accusation'. I just can't keep his statements straight.

I have quite a high opinion of humanity. The fact that human beings are simultaneously capable of great good and great evil (or moderate good and moderate evil, for that matter) does not change that. I thought Liberator was the one who hated everybody.

Technically not an accusation. Still rather rude, though.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on December 06, 2009, 09:10:22 pm
Sure, sorry. Rather rude of me.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on December 06, 2009, 11:59:56 pm
Although not really entirely inaccurate
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Thaeris on December 07, 2009, 08:18:12 pm
Although not really entirely inaccurate

Erm... Propagation of the matter, anyone?

If we must turn every discussion in the GD forum into one about Liberator, I suggest we give him a nifty new title suitable to this odd condition:

I personally vouch for the title "Infamous L-I-B." It's ghetto and fresh, with a soothing hint of citrus.  :nod:
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on December 07, 2009, 11:26:38 pm
....but I kinda liked my old one....
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Black Wolf on December 08, 2009, 08:48:06 am
OK, I love this show. It definitely has the potential to become better than BSG for me. The characters hit all the right buttons for me, and I love the way they manipulate our opinions of them to show them as complex, multidimensional beings that real people would be (eg. Eli gets this (he knows what Young did on the planet but does nothing, despite being everyone's favourite character and Rush has the inglorious bastard vibe right down to a T and Greer, well, he's what Atlantis tried and failed to get from Ronin pretty much every episode). Plus it's slowly evolving, showing their struggle just to survive (loved the sweet potato bit :)) and has gone 10 episodes with only one of those "Episode in a  bottle" things where nothing affects the overall story arc (the time loop one, which I also loved). So yeah, I'm hooked and already squirming in my seat knowing it'll be weeks before the next one. :D

[EDIT]Oh, and I think they're all coping about as well as can be expected, given the situation. They're all adapting to what can essentially be considered a life sentence, and a short, uncomfortable life at that. As for their selection for the SG program, they're doing better than that guy from season 1 of SG1 who took over a planet by posing as a god, or the ones who went off and worked for the NID.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Blue Lion on April 04, 2010, 09:12:27 pm
Iiiiiiiit's baaaaaaaaack!
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on April 04, 2010, 09:23:37 pm
It was all right. Female characters got shafted again, space battle was good but not great. Showing motion in the right direction, though.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on June 21, 2010, 01:35:12 am
Sorry for the necro...

I just saw the season finale of this since my schedule prevents me from seeing it at the proper time(Hulu.com ftw btw!) and I thought I would bring this back up for those who haven't been watching it or had left it behind for some reason.  They're going back toward the Stargate method, but with a darker twist.  This is opposed to where it was going before which was down the BSG WTF are you smoking road.  Anyway, the season finale seems to present an inescapable conundrum with everyone facing imminent death in some form or fashion.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Klaustrophobia on June 21, 2010, 02:13:26 am
i thought the finale was really a waste of an episode.  pretty much the exact same as the preceding one for another hour.  it ended up in exactly the same place, and not a lot interesting or important happened in between.

and i really hope they kill off Rea soon.  she's just annoying.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Scourge of Ages on June 21, 2010, 03:19:35 pm
I like the show, it's one of the few things for which I'll pull myself away from the computer to watch live.

I just have one thing to say about the cliffhanger last episode:
Octooobeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrr!!!! :hopping:
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Colonol Dekker on June 21, 2010, 03:34:58 pm
Stargate Voyager =  :no: :P :hopping: :mad:
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Kosh on June 21, 2010, 11:55:21 pm
Well at least it will have a chance to do what Voyage had the potential for but so spectacularly failed to live up it.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Locutus of Borg on June 22, 2010, 12:48:16 am
Prediction for the first five minutes

- Eli opens the door to save Scott and Greer (as if they'll kill them off -_-)
OR
- Scott and Greer find a way to be covered by the shield

THEN

- The Luciens decide the military is more useful to them alive due to pleading by Gaius Rushtar and Raeslin

AND FINALLY

- Everyone survives the Gamma flash
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: SpardaSon21 on June 22, 2010, 01:27:22 am
So, has it been decided then that SG:U is pretty much BattleStarGate: Voyager?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Klaustrophobia on June 22, 2010, 02:16:00 am
i was really hoping the ship was just the intro to the series, not all of it.  episodes of survive the next thing that broke on the old ship can only go so far.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Nemesis6 on June 22, 2010, 07:38:18 am
The crying really got boring after a while. It's like they thought -- Hmmm, what would Stargate do? Action, character development, justified tension, and an interesting narrative... Ok, let's rid of all of those and make the characters cry all the time. It doesn't matter if the viewer doesn't care about them yet, or that they're razor-thin and unlikable and hence the viewers won't care about them later, either - We'll just do the Battlestar Galactica constant tension thing so they just forget. I mean they must forget, right?

I watched it with my brother, and we both just found it to be embarrassingly bad. Personally, I was waiting for the entire cast to be blown out of an airlock, and replaced with likable, interesting characters. I mean seriously, the comic-relief gamer guy... what the **** were they thinking?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on June 22, 2010, 01:00:30 pm
The thing about Eli is that he is the most interesting character on the show.  I kind of like the colonel and roush, but Eli is the only one who is even mildly relatedable.  The rest of the cast feels like the left overs from the casting call for Cloverfield.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: MR_T3D on June 22, 2010, 01:30:38 pm
rush and eli and maybe the colonel are the only decent characters to me.

wish it was more light-hearted, like how SG-1 was.

good times.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: SpardaSon21 on June 22, 2010, 01:57:49 pm
You mean lighthearted like:

"Wormholes?"
"Giant worms.  HUGE."
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 23, 2010, 08:28:26 pm
You mean lighthearted like:

"Wormholes?"
"Giant worms.  HUGE."

More along the lines of

"Jaffa, Kree!"
"Yeah, I get that a lot."

I mean, they cured somebody of brainwashing by stopping his lungs, not his heart, and most certainly not his brain activity. That was Voyager level of bad right there. Stargate's never sunk to that level of basic plot brokenness before. If they start phasering cracks in spacetime, I'm not going to bat an eye now.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: SpardaSon21 on June 23, 2010, 08:56:10 pm
I find it hard to believe SG:U has done much polarity reversal (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ReversePolarity).
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Scourge of Ages on June 23, 2010, 10:56:08 pm
Dang it people! Stop linking to tvtropes! It'll take forever for me to stop reading now...
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Mars on June 24, 2010, 12:05:33 pm
You mean lighthearted like:

"Wormholes?"
"Giant worms.  HUGE."

More along the lines of

"Jaffa, Kree!"
"Yeah, I get that a lot."

I mean, they cured somebody of brainwashing by stopping his lungs, not his heart, and most certainly not his brain activity. That was Voyager level of bad right there. Stargate's never sunk to that level of basic plot brokenness before. If they start phasering cracks in spacetime, I'm not going to bat an eye now.

For some reason it's pretty easy for me to believe that removing the oxygen from a room will certainly stop brain and heart just fine.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Locutus of Borg on June 24, 2010, 12:36:57 pm
Didn't they need to restart his heart when they came in?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Klaustrophobia on June 24, 2010, 12:53:40 pm
yes they did.

why are we debating anti-brainwashing techniques in a fictional TV show anyway?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Liberator on June 24, 2010, 01:20:41 pm
Beats me.  Why turn it down to vacuum anyway, down to 5 or 6 psi and pow everyone's out like a light and they can send folk in in the suits to tie up the Lucians.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 24, 2010, 04:47:05 pm
For some reason it's pretty easy for me to believe that removing the oxygen from a room will certainly stop brain and heart just fine.

Yeah, but it won't do it in that order. You go unconcious. Your lungs stop first. Your heart stops next. Your brain stops last.

The bottom line is that he was still neurologically active, and a lot of it, or they wouldn't have been able to bring him back. Otherwise they might have been able to get his other two organs going again, but he'd be braindead. Since they needed to wipe programming from his brain, inducing and retriving artifical brain-death is about the only reliable way they could have done it. There are means for this in Stargate, but they didn't use a sarcophagus. (Maybe a hand-device, could have done it too, but that wasn't what happened either.)

Neither such thing was used. The only conclusion possible was that either the show was talking out of its ass, or the characters were and it didn't work. :P
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Klaustrophobia on June 24, 2010, 08:01:04 pm
Where the hell are you getting this idea that the brain has to die for it to work?  In the SG-1 episode with the brain washing, T didn't die in any sense of the word, he had a near-death experience to break it.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 24, 2010, 11:59:24 pm
Where the hell are you getting this idea that the brain has to die for it to work?  In the SG-1 episode with the brain washing, T didn't die in any sense of the word, he had a near-death experience to break it.

That was a different type of brainwashing, and it hard more than a near-death experience to break it in case you noticed.

Meanwhile, here, they specifically connected it to altered electrical activity in the brain.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on March 24, 2011, 08:45:41 am
So this show has actually gotten really good, and it's a shame it's not going to be on much longer. They figured out how to make their characters fun and relatable, built the usual Stargate gang of fun supporting characters (park and volker and what's-his-face are awesome), pushed Boy Scout and Chloe a bit back, and gave Robert Carlyle all the scenery he needed. Robert Carlyle is a beautiful man. He will make you gay.

Plus the sets have been engorgeousness'd with an infusion of lens flare.

This would absolutely have been the best Stargate if given a few more seasons. I really think this picture encapsulates my feelings about its cancellation:

(http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/6589/1419621-1_jc_super.jpg)
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: newman on March 24, 2011, 09:09:25 am
So this show has actually gotten really good, and it's a shame it's not going to be on much longer. They figured out how to make their characters fun and relatable, built the usual Stargate gang of fun supporting characters (park and volker and what's-his-face are awesome), pushed Boy Scout and Chloe a bit back, and gave Robert Carlyle all the scenery he needed. Robert Carlyle is a beautiful man. He will make you gay.

Plus the sets have been engorgeousness'd with an infusion of lens flare.

This would absolutely have been the best Stargate if given a few more seasons. I really think this picture encapsulates my feelings about its cancellation:

(http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/6589/1419621-1_jc_super.jpg)

Quoted for full absolute Truth in it's purest form. Apparently there's a small chance it might get renewed. I'll post the link later if I remember to look for it when I get home.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on March 24, 2011, 09:13:22 am
I just watched Twin Destinies and the shots of Destiny above the star were just poetry. How vunderful!
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Luis Dias on March 24, 2011, 11:15:06 am
Carlyle is beautiful? Man, stop the weed, it's getting to you. He's ugly as hell with his persistent sad look, and that's the way I like him ;).
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Luis Dias on March 24, 2011, 11:16:50 am
So the show is on again? I missed that. I stopped seeing it in the tenth episode, in youtube (it doesn't air in Portugal) last year. I guess I have new things to see later at night ;).
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: PsychoLandlord on March 24, 2011, 11:18:13 am
Now I feel bad. I watched one episode of this and dropped it, since I figured it was going to end up as Stargate: Voyager. I should try to find a few of the later episodes.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on March 24, 2011, 11:28:22 am
Now I feel bad. I watched one episode of this and dropped it, since I figured it was going to end up as Stargate: Voyager. I should try to find a few of the later episodes.

It doesn't start getting really consistently good until the second season, but the first season has a few excellent standouts like 'Time'.

also posting robert carlyle itt to create gays

(http://i.mediapundit.net/albums/stargate-universe-press-kit/robert-carlyle.jpg)
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Luis Dias on March 24, 2011, 12:36:11 pm
Dog-hairstyle, skewed nose, small chin, small lips, huge forehead (to harbor the 300 IQ, forssure).

Ain't no beauty. Then again, I'm biased towards the other gender so I could be wrong.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 24, 2011, 07:19:00 pm
I think that's Jimmy Hoffa.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: UnendingRequiem on March 24, 2011, 08:26:30 pm
It's awesome
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: newman on March 25, 2011, 02:47:16 am
Anyone saying it's Stargate: Voyager never gave it a proper look. I'm not aiming this at you, PsychoLandlord, but I heard this statement before from some other people, and indeed on paper it does sound like it. When you get right down to actually watching the show you see that it has really nothing in common with Voyager other than the fact that both crew are lost in space a very long way from home. This is where the similarities end; plus, Voyager hardly invented the concept of Lost in Space - it just used it. Poorly, I might add ;)
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: PsychoLandlord on March 25, 2011, 03:02:40 am
Yeah, like I said before, I kinda regret not giving it a chance. Part of it was also my irrational hatred of the other two Stargate TV series, though I've always loved the movie, and the series did kinda begin to grow on me as I caught reruns.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: newman on March 25, 2011, 03:04:43 am
and the series did kinda begin to grow on me

Stargate tends to do that a lot. The two series before Universe were pretty lighthearted.. but there's something inherently cool about a sci fi that doesn't take itself too seriously :) That said Universe went in a completely different direction which is, I guess, why a lot of sg-1 and atlantis fans never accepted it, as I guess they expected more of the same. Whatever the case, for me Universe worked and I'm sad to see it axed.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Mefustae on March 25, 2011, 07:35:48 am
Sometime in early May, a great crime will be committed. A crime that I will see coming. A crime that I will be powerless to stop. It will echo with me for years, and then its absence will strike me even harder. I can safely say that the day the very final newly produced episode of Stargate is aired, a part of me will die. A small part, but an important one. The crime, the murder of that part of me I hold so dear, shall go unpunished.

I curse the name SyFy. Now and forever, may it cursed.


On another note, latest episode was pretty awesome. Hopefully they'll keep developing the Lucian Alliance threat to Earth. It's a really interesting perspective to be on the outside of things looking in. Plus, it was awesome that they managed to get the original Feretti back.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: newman on March 25, 2011, 07:52:55 am
A bit ot, it would be awesome if someone started a channel called "the real sci fi". Would sit so well after the name change to syfy, plus all the wrestling and cancellations that pretty much defined syfy lately.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Nemesis6 on March 26, 2011, 07:57:00 pm
Quote from: newman link

Stargate tends to do that a lot. The two series before Universe were pretty lighthearted.. but there's something inherently cool about a sci fi that doesn't take itself too seriously :) That said Universe went in a completely different direction which is, I guess, why a lot of sg-1 and atlantis fans never accepted it, as I guess they expected more of the same. Whatever the case, for me Universe worked and I'm sad to see it axed.

The reason I personally didn't accept it was because it was crap, not because it went in a different direction. For example - I can relate to much deeper and complex characters if I have a reason to.

However, making them cry doesn't make me care about them. Making them cry every single episode makes me hate them. Showing no signs of stopping their crying makes me stop watching the program. Basically, crying is not a substitute for dialogue or action. They tried substituting both with crying, and it didn't work.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Kosh on March 26, 2011, 10:22:44 pm
Um, why was this necrothreaded?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Locutus of Borg on March 26, 2011, 10:30:49 pm
because SGu is still on and people still want to discuss it?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Kosh on March 26, 2011, 10:51:42 pm
Ok, just checking. :nervous:
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Charismatic on March 28, 2011, 08:30:25 pm
I hate that SyWrestling ax'ed this AMAZING show. Its up there with Firefly IMHO.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Topgun on March 28, 2011, 10:42:11 pm
I hate that SyWrestling ax'ed this AMAZING show. Its up there with Firefly IMHO.

blasphemy
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: QuantumDelta on March 29, 2011, 03:48:35 am
Heh, this episode is the best in the series?
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Nuke on March 29, 2011, 03:49:16 am
tv in general has gone down the ****ter. as it stands once sgu goes i wont need a tv anymore, except maybe to watch doctor who on pbs (yes, i said it, pb ****ing s). sgu aint battlestar and it aint firefly, but it aint exactly what i call crap. when it comes right down to it id rather watch reruns from old shows i used to watch than see thim fill in every timeslot with reality shows, bad movies, and wrestling.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Luis Dias on March 29, 2011, 04:54:35 am
there is still house md ....
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Topgun on March 30, 2011, 02:46:49 pm
I really, really hate house. The acting is great but my god the writing....
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: rscaper1070 on March 30, 2011, 09:35:32 pm
Well, Walking Dead and Breaking Bad start back up this summer.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on May 10, 2011, 11:48:09 pm
o7, SGU.

It was real.

It would've been the best Stargate. Looking back, I think, all in all, it was the best Stargate, once it found its feet. And it was something unique in televised science fiction: way out there, playing with blue supergiants and black holes, but still grounded and naturalistic, paying homage to real science and shirking the old standby tropes of bumpy-headed aliens.

Sure, the first season was rocky; but so was the first season of SG-1 or TNG. The effects, the scripts, the cast, they all clicked so perfectly, especially after the second season break. Even the set design was on point.

What a shame to see this go. But at least it went out at the top of its game.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on May 11, 2011, 03:21:51 am
Maybe I should have continued watching after second season break then ...
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: QuantumDelta on May 11, 2011, 03:42:22 pm
It got good, after they cancelled it, so they pulled all the **** filler episodes out of it and just went with the raw, main story episodes for the entire final run.
Don't kid yourself, the series was beyond **** when they were going at their own pace.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on May 11, 2011, 03:43:38 pm
It got good, after they cancelled it, so they pulled all the **** filler episodes out of it and just went with the raw, main story episodes for the entire final run.
Don't kid yourself, the series was beyond **** when they were going at their own pace.

Filming was concluded well before the cancellation decision was made and the episodes were written even before that, so no I don't think so.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: QuantumDelta on May 11, 2011, 03:49:19 pm
I don't buy it, there was no growth in the series, it went from;
utter neckbending train-wreck terrible EVERY EPISODE, to OMGAWESOME EVERY EPISODE.

Explain!
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Mars on May 11, 2011, 03:55:42 pm
Batutta <3s Kewl Aliens, would be my guess.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on May 11, 2011, 03:58:19 pm
Batutta <3s Kewl Aliens, would be my guess.

No, I actually thought the times the series tried to do organic aliens were pretty clumsy (the blue aliens were never very interesting, the seedship aliens were dumb.) I thought the show was at its best when it was man vs. environment, counting the drones as environment.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: 666maslo666 on May 11, 2011, 05:26:08 pm
SGU was great IMHO, finally darker and more mature SG, and with deeper character development.. Too bad they cancelled it. :( I certainly liked this new approach on the SG universe.

SGU was to SG what BP2 was to Freespace :P
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Luis Dias on May 11, 2011, 05:36:20 pm
I still don't miss an episode.... though shamedly I see it on youtube - we still haven't SGU season 1 in syfy in portugal
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Black Wolf on May 12, 2011, 05:33:01 am
I loved ths show from day one, don't care what the haters say. Damned shame to see it cancelled, as a loss it's comparable to Firefly IMO .
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Nemesis6 on May 12, 2011, 07:02:22 am
I loved ths show from day one, don't care what the haters say. Damned shame to see it cancelled, as a loss it's comparable to Firefly IMO .

Heresy. Firefly > All.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Luis Dias on May 12, 2011, 07:15:09 am
The premise of the Destiny is very interesting, though.

Big Bang was created by an "outside" force, and the background radiation encodes a "message" or some piece of probably interesting information.

At first I was dismayed by the sheer lack of intelligence in the premise, as if Destiny was trying hard to "get to" the end of the universe to see this information by itself.

In the end episode, though, I understood better. When Rush says that if Destiny "skips" the galaxy altogether, then they will be missing "pieces of the puzzle". Now that's better science. What he means is something much more subtle and intelligent than what I thought the writers of SGU were thinking initially.

Consider. The background radiation is always 13.7 billion light years away from your vantage point. But each vantage point sees a different background radiation. It's hard to picture, but with Destiny moving through the universe, and taking pictures of these different BR, it's as if it is taking an MRI out of your brains, slice by slice, until you get a full 3D picture of it.

It will obviously never reach this BR (the mistake I presumed they were making), but it will scan it completely.

Nice.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Nohiki on May 12, 2011, 07:27:50 am
I don't buy it, there was no growth in the series, it went from;
utter neckbending train-wreck terrible EVERY EPISODE, to OMGAWESOME EVERY EPISODE.

Explain!
Explanation: The authors planned for the first season to be like it was, because they planned a lot more than two series. The story was about to get more and more action now with every episode. Translation: Just as it was about to get good, they cancelled it.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Luis Dias on May 12, 2011, 07:41:01 am
It got good, after they cancelled it, so they pulled all the **** filler episodes out of it and just went with the raw, main story episodes for the entire final run.
Don't kid yourself, the series was beyond **** when they were going at their own pace.

Filming was concluded well before the cancellation decision was made and the episodes were written even before that, so no I don't think so.

You have to wonder, by seeing the last episode, with the ship's lights going off how much of that is a goodbye sign to the fans.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: MP-Ryan on May 12, 2011, 01:04:44 pm
I liked this show from its pilot right through to the end.  I was very sad to see it cancelled, and the last episode, while good, wasn't sufficient closure for the fans.  With the cancellation of the previously-planned movie, it looks like we won't be getting any satisfactory closure either.

A shame that so many fans of the original two shows couldn't try watching it for what it was, rather than what they thought it should be.  I liked SG1, Atlantis, and SGU, all for different reasons.  Too bad some people were so entrenched in the originals they wouldn't give something new a chance.

I agree that the loss of SG:U is comparable to the loss of Firefly, though at least Firefly got a film to wrap up some of the issues.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Nuke on May 13, 2011, 01:14:58 am
yea im not a big fan of cliffhanger endings of tv series. i would have been more satisfied if the ship would have blown up, or a lame deus ex machina. the only way to redeem it is to do a movie or somesuch. but a few episodes before the end were kinda awesome.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Mefustae on May 13, 2011, 06:06:13 am
I liked this show from its pilot right through to the end.  I was very sad to see it cancelled, and the last episode, while good, wasn't sufficient closure for the fans.  With the cancellation of the previously-planned movie, it looks like we won't be getting any satisfactory closure either.

Having just watched the final episode, I disagree. Don't get me wrong, there wasn't sufficient closure. There couldn't be. At this stage in the show, lesser plot threads had been pulled or cut, and more interesting threads were starting to become more apparent. But the way they chose to end, with a slow peeling back of the cast until only Eli remained; I thought it perfect. Giving a small send-off to every character, and creating plenty of incredible character moments with a dappling of action to grease the wheels of the episode. Ultimately, the lack of closure relates to the major story-arcs, Destiny's grand mission. But the emotional closure, 'Gauntlet' had it in spades. Sure, I would have loved to have seen where Rush's obsession would have taken him, and how TJ would handle knowing about her ADS, and the Park/Greer/Volker triangle would've been damned interesting. I would have loved to have seen a lot more of that show. But off it goes, and we're probably never going to see it again.

Goddamn, I'm feeling really melancholy right now.

I loved ths show from day one, don't care what the haters say. Damned shame to see it cancelled, as a loss it's comparable to Firefly IMO .

QFT.

The way I see it; this is actually worse than Firefly. 'Serenity' aside, the Firefly 'verse was all about potential. It hadn't been explored yet, and when we lost it, the loss we all felt was that potential. Based on this, SG:U is a monumentally greater loss, not just as a discrete series, but as an end to the ongoing Stargate universe as a whole. Over 13 years of continuity, ending.

End of a goddamned era.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Luis Dias on May 13, 2011, 11:37:38 am
At least it ends with a bang. Can't really say the same for the Star Trek universe, for example...
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on May 13, 2011, 11:39:44 am
I was so far from tired of staring at Robert Carlyle  :(  :(  :(  :(  :(
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: headdie on May 13, 2011, 11:46:13 am
At least it ends with a bang. Can't really say the same for the Star Trek universe, for example...

tbh for me Star Trek died with Nemesis, and it would have been a fitting send off for the franchise, but no the romantics have pushed it beyond it's lifespan.  Just couldn't get into Enterprise and I'm not even bothered that I have not watched the TOS prequel film.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Luis Dias on May 13, 2011, 11:49:50 am
I was so far from tired of staring at Robert Carlyle  :(  :(  :(  :(  :(

Yeah, perhaps clearly that was its lowest point: no sexbombgirls. No number six, or six of nine. You know, full blown dominatrixes that creep the hell out of you, while giving you a boner at the same time. Contradictory emotions always work. Instead, Carlile had this lame romance with a mesmerized and cuddly boring girl that lasted little more than two or three episodes, Eli had his girlfriend killed gratuitously, the boss never really tells her medic that he loves her and the only sustainable romance over there is between the two most boring and predictable characters written. Hey perhaps that is no coincidence.

But I'm being too picky over a show that only had two seasons. In time they would do it right. Specially when the equivalent of six of nine showed up. :lol:
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on May 13, 2011, 11:51:38 am
I was so far from tired of staring at Robert Carlyle  :(  :(  :(  :(  :(

Yeah, perhaps clearly that was its lowest point: no sexbombgirls. No number six, or six of nine. You know, full blown dominatrixes that creep the hell out of you, while giving you a boner at the same time. Contradictory emotions always work. Instead, Carlile had this lame romance with a mesmerized and cuddly boring girl that lasted little more than two or three episodes, Eli had his girlfriend killed gratuitously, the boss never really tells her medic that he loves her and the only sustainable romance over there is between the two most boring and predictable characters written. Hey perhaps that is no coincidence.

But I'm being too picky over a show that only had two seasons. In time they would do it right. Specially when the equivalent of six of nine showed up. :lol:

what

Robert Carlyle was the only sex bomb this show needed. Plus you had Volker and Park and Greer and Brody with their awesome four way broromance.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Luis Dias on May 13, 2011, 12:35:22 pm
bros before hos uh?

I knew it. This show was written purposedly descriminating heterossexuals!
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Herra Tohtori on May 13, 2011, 04:54:18 pm
bros before hos uh?

I knew it. This show was written purposedly descriminating heterossexuals!


There's a difference between homosociality and homosexuality


Maybe I should watch the episodes after the 2nd season break, if it was as good as you guys are saying it was. :nervous:
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Luis Dias on May 13, 2011, 05:29:27 pm
It is.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: IceFire on May 13, 2011, 06:00:14 pm
bros before hos uh?

I knew it. This show was written purposedly descriminating heterossexuals!


There's a difference between homosociality and homosexuality


Maybe I should watch the episodes after the 2nd season break, if it was as good as you guys are saying it was. :nervous:
Much more enjoyable after the second season break. The best episodes are in there. The second season was better but the best episodes definitely in the back half of the season. I wish now that they had another season to prove themselves. Especially with the way it ended!
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Nuke on May 13, 2011, 11:42:46 pm
I was so far from tired of staring at Robert Carlyle  :(  :(  :(  :(  :(

Yeah, perhaps clearly that was its lowest point: no sexbombgirls. No number six, or six of nine. You know, full blown dominatrixes that creep the hell out of you, while giving you a boner at the same time. Contradictory emotions always work. Instead, Carlile had this lame romance with a mesmerized and cuddly boring girl that lasted little more than two or three episodes, Eli had his girlfriend killed gratuitously, the boss never really tells her medic that he loves her and the only sustainable romance over there is between the two most boring and predictable characters written. Hey perhaps that is no coincidence.

But I'm being too picky over a show that only had two seasons. In time they would do it right. Specially when the equivalent of six of nine showed up. :lol:

what

Robert Carlyle was the only sex bomb this show needed. Plus you had Volker and Park and Greer and Brody with their awesome four way broromance.

you know a series is failing when the only think they can think of is to give you a boner with unrealistic female roles. im somewhat glad they didnt pull that in sgu. i knew the series would fail because they tried to make the next bsg instead of the next stargate. theres are no more scifi franchises left. and if they leave things up to suckfy there never will be.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Thaeris on May 15, 2011, 10:31:17 pm
Heh. Probably true.

Stargate worked, as though it was far campier than the awesome film it was based off of, had its own unique character. I've never seen SGU, but I can only guess that they tried to pull in new fans via tactics which worked in the last widely popular science fiction show, which was BSG. Originality or character goes a long way; sacrificing either can really cut your series short.

That said, I doubt the next great science fiction series will come from any of the major general networks (NBC, ABC), which end up cranking out lame soap operas with unrealistic plot twists. Well, at least not any time soon.

What I think everyone wants to see is a series that takes you some where. BSG was destined to be a finite series by its nature. Stargate, Star Trek, Andromeda, and B5 had a setting where it allowed their respective environments to expand and evolve. Despite any campiness they might have had, they had enough scope that they didn't need to get bogged down with the characters (which is entirely possible) like BSG was capable of in some instances; that is, they could always be taking you some place new whilst lending enough focus on character development and gradually working with the plot. They could even sneak in some science with the fiction from time to time, or at least something feasible. Frack mang, where is Firefly!
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: General Battuta on May 15, 2011, 10:59:37 pm
What I think everyone wants to see is a series that takes you some where. BSG was destined to be a finite series by its nature. Stargate, Star Trek, Andromeda, and B5 had a setting where it allowed their respective environments to expand and evolve. Despite any campiness they might have had, they had enough scope that they didn't need to get bogged down with the characters (which is entirely possible) like BSG was capable of in some instances; that is, they could always be taking you some place new whilst lending enough focus on character development and gradually working with the plot. They could even sneak in some science with the fiction from time to time, or at least something feasible. Frack mang, where is Firefly!

So basically what you're describing is 'Stargate Universe' a show recently cancelled by the SyFy channel
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: newman on May 16, 2011, 01:25:06 am
They had a very nice, symbolic, and smart ending that does easily allow for resurrection of the show should a miracle happen (which doesn't seem likely atm). I'm really sorry to see this one go.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Mefustae on May 16, 2011, 03:25:08 am
Heh. Probably true.

Stargate worked, as though it was far campier than the awesome film it was based off of, had its own unique character. I've never seen SGU, but I can only guess that they tried to pull in new fans via tactics which worked in the last widely popular science fiction show, which was BSG. Originality or character goes a long way; sacrificing either can really cut your series short.

Yeah, see, why the hell not? Seriously, if you're going to spend the time and brainpower it takes to come into a thread called 'New Stargate: Stargate Universe' and vent your philosophical spleen, why not just take a good 40 minutes to sit down and watch an episode? I mean, it takes a bit of effort to cobble together an opinion from the bits and pieces voiced by those who have bothered to watch the show, so why not instead watch the damn show and form your own goddamn opinions?

Personally, I love the show. Not everyone does, and there are a fair few who take issue with it for one reason or another. I'll argue with them, discuss the show, and have a good time doing it. I may not like their opinion, but I'll respect it as much as I respect my own. What pisses me off is when people chime in with completely uninformed opinions, and expect their thoughts to have the same damn validity as those who have gone to the effort to know what the **** they're talking about.

So please, for your own sake as much as ours, just watch the damn show before you form an opinion. Don't listen to the people who love it, or the people who hate it. Just form your own goddamn thoughts on the matter, before you go passing judgement on something you know pretty much nothing about.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: newman on May 16, 2011, 04:13:06 am
Point, valid. Delivery, not so much. There's a way to say things that is conducive to flaming and a way to say things that isn't. In general I found Thaeris to be a reasonable guy so there's really no need to go nuclear on him, he's perfectly capable of processing a politely formatted message. Otherwise, yea - any sorts of general observations based on hearsay and not actual knowledge of the show doesn't really contribute to the discussion. And I do agree that SGU actually got pretty good lately.
Just my 5 cents on the matter. I just wish there was a single thread in gen disc that doesn't eventually require at least a moderator intervention. Let's start with this one and see how it goes, k? :)
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Nuke on May 16, 2011, 05:09:08 am
They had a very nice, symbolic, and smart ending that does easily allow for resurrection of the show should a miracle happen (which doesn't seem likely atm). I'm really sorry to see this one go.

they ended it with an ending that really didnt go anywhere. its like "maybe we will do something but we aint paying for it". they end us with an unsolvable problem and then just sit on it. of course the way they end it kinda sets it up in a way that they can adjust the cast in the event they cant retain everyone. the ones you cant bring back, you just have their tubes fail and then set the plot in the same stroke. say they wake up in 1000 years, the ship is crippled and half the crew is dead, then maybe it becomes a ground pounder show like sg1 was for the most part. or maybe their plan worked and they have a new galaxy and continue on as is. it may have been a strategic ending that they may pick up on easily, but i wouldn't call it a smart or original ending at all.

still it might be an indication that they have a plan to do something else with the show, like do a movie or something. but i am seriously starting to doubt that syfy even gives a **** about scifi anymore. since they obviously like to fill in their schedule with ****ty movies, reality shows, and stuff that has absoultely nothing to do with scifi. syfy aint the only channel doing it, i used to enjoy watching documentries on the discovery and history channels, but reality shows have taken them over. seems i watch pbs more than any other channel these days, and thats ****ing sad. amc has some decent series, but nothing scifi unless you count the walking dead. i think they fill up the tv guide with crap to force you into buying old series on dvd.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: newman on May 16, 2011, 07:16:17 am
they ended it with an ending that really didnt go anywhere. its like "maybe we will do something but we aint paying for it". they end us with an unsolvable problem and then just sit on it.

They closed the circle nicely. It works if a miracle happens and someone decides to pick up the show again - the ending allows for anyone to pick it up even years later and I thought they wrote that pretty smart in that respect. There's also a nice symbolism and symmetry to it all; in the first episode the Destiny started powering systems up and springing to life, and in the last they did the exact opposite by slowly shutting everything down and putting the crew to sleep. If that's not a symbolic message that says "show's over for now but maybe, just maybe someone will pick it up in which case, we'll be here", nothing is. But we are talking about subjective things here anyway so there's no point in going too deep in discussing it.
Title: Re: New Stargate: Stargate Universe
Post by: Mefustae on May 16, 2011, 03:21:13 pm
Point, valid. Delivery, not so much. There's a way to say things that is conducive to flaming and a way to say things that isn't. In general I found Thaeris to be a reasonable guy so there's really no need to go nuclear on him, he's perfectly capable of processing a politely formatted message. Otherwise, yea - any sorts of general observations based on hearsay and not actual knowledge of the show doesn't really contribute to the discussion. And I do agree that SGU actually got pretty good lately.
Just my 5 cents on the matter. I just wish there was a single thread in gen disc that doesn't eventually require at least a moderator intervention. Let's start with this one and see how it goes, k? :)

It's not about the quality of Stargate Universe, or the opinion of haters. It's more just my impassioned plea against people making completely uninformed opinions and presenting them as if they were valid and thoughtful. Sometimes, you need few licks of flame to get your point across. ;)

I agree that they did an excellent job in crafting an ending that wasn't really and ending. There was a feeling of finality, yet they left that large thread dangling for anyone to come up and pull it in the future. Of course, pessimist that I am, I know damn well there's no great chance of that ever happening. We've probably seen the end of Stargate for good, and my heart aches for that fact.