Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: AtomicClucker on December 27, 2014, 05:06:02 pm
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I am rather flabbergasted that, when the owner of 8chan was told that he's website was being kicked off patreon because it was used for hosting childporn, he changed his patreon to "support me making cat videos!" (whilst clearly stating that the excess money would still go to "other charities") instead of... doing anything about the child porn 0_o.
Apparently it's borderline (how the hell they define it is up to law enforcement) material, then again, Canada has much more different laws on the books than us. But here, I rest my case to the Anti-GamerGate crowd being Social Justice Retards. This is the reason I stay the hell away from both camps. One group is quantifiable idiots, honest and actually to the point, the other is made of retards who believe Social Justice condones vigilante-style lynchings. AGG is pretty much like those crazy vigilantes who use Sex Offender lists to shoot sex offenders, but lo and behold, most of the time we discover "offenders" as dumb former teens who decided to bone someone in their age bracket and got hung up because of a stupid law system.
Chans will host almost anything unless it is deliberately illegal or violates the ToS. Keep in mind as well that Chans operate on human mods - sometimes stuff slips through the cracks, other times the Mods overlook it. It's usually the board populace that gets this sort of material flagged and removed. It's not the first time **** like this has happened to 4 and 8chan, and Howwheels had to shutdown several boards over similar incidents.
I stay the hell away from the Chans for obvious legality reasons, but this time? Eh. Idiots them all. But I hope Dan Olson gets the books thrown at him to remind everyone just because it's potentially illegal, you should report it ASAP to the proper authorities instead of posting blurred stuff to a blog. Stupid people get themselves thrown into jail for exactly doing this.
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Please keep it civil. We allow a fairly wide latitude on rants in this thread, but watch the language.
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Please keep it civil. We allow a fairly wide latitude on rants in this thread, but watch the language.
Agreed. I think I'll refrain from mentioning it anymore because it does make my blood boil at the sheer stupidity of it all. I think GamerGate has proven one thing: idiots abound.
But on brighter news, cha-ching, I've got my Bachelor's Degree confirmation. Now time to build a resume/portfolio and find a way out of Dodge.
Plus... family is going probably expel me after my post-graduation show. I've altered the second half of my show to talk about Jewish Banker conspiracies and the Israeli Defense Forces. For every time I hear the Rothschilds, another Merkava IV four is added to a growing list of referential material. For every comment about Banks, an Israeli F-16 is thrown into the pile.
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I hate saying this kind of thing but, you need to get the hell out of there already. That does not sound like a mentally well place to live in.
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Please keep it civil. We allow a fairly wide latitude on rants in this thread, but watch the language.
That language was... not civil?
I thought it was pretty tame in terms of what could have been used to describe things
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"Social justice retard" crosses that particular line, fyi. "Better than it could have been" isn't an excuse for crossing the line.
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So it'd of been better to say...
"Better than it could have been" isn't an excuse for crossing the line.
If you crossed the line, that generally implies the words you used were crossing the line worthy
Majority of what I saw in that post involved "idiot" and low level variations thereof
Essentially my point here is just what is the line, how is it defined and in what contexts are there exceptions or more harsh outcomes
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Comparing people who speak out against child porn to people who are in such a mental state that they are not able to function normally in society is crossing a line. I'm surprised this is even up to discussion.
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Idiot and retarded are both ableist insults.
Now, the correct insult that has been shown to be able to skip the landmines of accusations of anything resembling ableism, homophobia, mysoginy, and all the other sins that are du jour, is the one that was designed by socially correct people with correct academic practices. I'm talking of course of the word ****lord, although I am personally skeptical. It might be correctly escatological for an insult, but, after all, it is also slightly descriminatory against people who are having hemorrhoids. And who has more of them? Yes, african children, who die with diarrheia and dehydration. Also, it can be construed as a bad anagram on Star Wars lore, and that's an obvious capital crime.
Alternatively, you can just call them "white cis male virgin neckbeards". There's no more vile people than these fellows on earth, and even them get really pissed when you just simply describe them in those precise words. So, if that works against such vile creatures on Earth, it's really established as a correct insult.
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@deathfun: I'm not going to define that, because if I do people will dance on justt the correct side of the line to avoid punishment.
@Luis: that sort of response is why you get warnings for sarcasm. Knock it off.
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****ing hell, I can't be funny now? I can't joke about the current internet ideological etiquettes? I can't ridicule the ridiculous?
This place is getting worse and worse all the ****ing time.
e: here's a funny to get your humour risen a bit:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5ObjvCIIAAP3xf.jpg)
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Luis, this is not 4chan. Humor is not in a vacuum, you must consider your audience. Being a colossal asshole passes for humor there. It does not here.
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Scotty:
1. I am not an asshole, I politely request you take that insult back;
2. I am not colossal, I politely request you take that compliment back;
3. I am not a 4chan participant, my jokes were absolutely kosher (that last one is from youtube FYI). If anything, they are at the expense of radical extremists' talking points, which are to be ridiculed as much as anti-vaxxers or other wacky fundamentalists, nothing more;
4. Because I don't think I have done anything wrong, like for instance insulting other members clearly is, I politely request you take that warning back.
Thank you for your time.
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Luis, when someone with the authority and responsibility to moderate behavior asks you, at the behest of multiple users, to alter your behavior, do so. Have the maturity and strength of character to accept the criticismand act accordingly. You have not, and continuing to argue will not convince me. The warning stands (and is dangerously close to increasing in severity).
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Well I for one found the joke funny. And I don't think this place is a hive mind where we'll all have the same taste.
I do not know on what video the joke was posted, but it has a lot of thumbs up, so plenty of other people like it too.
I found it. Oh, you have to watch it to hear it read out loud, it's hilarious!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJCbjohuwUI
Here's another from the comments section:
I go on a date with a girl. Take her out to a nice restaurant, she orders a shrimp cocktail and a few drinks.
I ask for the check. The waiter places the check in front of me - not in front of her, not in the middle - in front of me. A look of horror comes across the girl's face.
I reach for the check and put my credit card inside. She begins to tremble. Tears well up in her eyes.
I can tell she is paralyzed by the fear of the oppression she is facing. I chauvinistically place my check with the credit card back on the table, daring her to do something about it. The power of oppressing this woman surges through me, as I lean back in my chair and stare directly at her. She is shaking with fear, the oppression choking her voice.
The waiter returns to take away the check. All is lost to her now. Men at other tables stand up and begin to clap. Women all over the restaurant shriek and cry. I feel my erect cock raising the tablecloth up.
I ask my date, "Did you enjoy your meal?"
"Y-yes...thank you.", she says behind a mask of tears.
I lean back, a devious, patriarchal, patriarchal smile spreading across my face. And I tell her,
"It was my privilege."
:lol:
And if anyone doesn't get this, this is satire people.
In the description of the video, they think it originated on 4chan. Well, I say so what if it originated on 4chan. It's still funny. It doesn't matter where it came from.
I read out the second one in the style of the video. It's fun. Try it. :)
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Edit: Putting my foot in my mouth.
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I won't, for the similar reason that I don't find rape jokes funny ever, under any circumstance. Put quite simply, humor in which the vehicle of the joke is impotent, terrified helplessness is in the worst taste.
But that's not why I warned Luis. I warned Luis because his method of abrasive, mocking sarcasm and satire has reached the point of being inflammatory on its own, regardless of his sincerity.
Related: Though you've gotten more subtle about it, stop trying to be a mod. Again.
Before the post edit: Goddamn it. AtomicClucker, that gets you a warning to for not letting the damn thing go. You're characterizing more than a few people on these boards with such broad strokes, and even if you've stopped using that spcific word I called out first it's still not acceptable.
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The power of oppressing this woman surges through me,
Jesus christ lorric. Thats not satire, thats a one-on-one reminder of a rapists thought process.
How can anyone find fun in that? I thought you said you learned from the rape and why its not a good topic thread.
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Scotty, stop twisting. I shouldn't be surprised though when actually using the report function gets twisted into trying to be a mod. If you're not twisting and you actually believe that, you're seeing what you want to see. You think I'm doing something, so you're seeing it where I'm not.
@ -Joshua-
I just see satire on feminists blowing things out of proportion. I didn't think of rape at all.
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I'm not talking about your report, I'm talking about your reply trying to smooth things over and make what I've clearly described as unacceptable into something acceptable because "other people like it too". That one is pretty clear cut.
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Edit: Putting foot in my mouth.
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I'm not talking about your report, I'm talking about your reply trying to smooth things over and make what I've clearly described as unacceptable into something acceptable because "other people like it too". That one is pretty clear cut.
So trying to smooth things over is wrong now?
I was not challenging you. But mods are not above reproach. Are you that insecure that you'll jump on anything that is in the slightest way in contravention of what you say? That you can't just in a reasonable manner explain and prove why you are right?
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I just see satire on feminists blowing things out of proportion. I didn't think of rape at all.
I d say that if you read the rape is not a good topic thread and then came back and read this thing, you would see what I mean. The storys protagonist is exerting total dominance over a woman whilst sexually aroused. Thats not a joke (well except to a rapist).
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I'm quite frankly shocked that you're utterly incapable of seeing both how you're doing exactly what I've already told you to stop (twice), and how in doing so you're trying to bait me into getting into the line by line back and forth bickering. I am not above reproach, this is true. You are not the person, given your history on this forum, to be participating in that discussion.
Luis did the correct thing, and moved to PMs, where we're handling the disagreement. You are not the moderator or arbitrator of this forum. Stop trying to be.
If it seems like I say this a lot, it's because you do it a ****ing lot.
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@ Scotty - stop twisting! I'm not trying to bait you into anything. And if the joke had nothing to do with moderation, why is there a problem with me challenging you when you weren't even moderating the joke?
I just see satire on feminists blowing things out of proportion. I didn't think of rape at all.
I d say that if you read the rape is not a good topic thread and then came back and read this thing, you would see what I mean. The storys protagonist is exerting total dominance over a woman whilst sexually aroused. Thats not a joke (well except to a rapist).
You're reading it too literally. At least that's what I see. The joke is this overexaggerated vision of this wild aroused animal, and the males around also becoming aroused, and the poor helpless female, when in reality it's a nothing incident that some people blow up into something more.
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You're reading it too literally. At least that's what I see.
I ll just leave this here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=80668.msg1602672#msg1602672).
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You're reading it too literally. At least that's what I see.
I ll just leave this here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=80668.msg1602672#msg1602672).
I've read that thread.
I don't think this is about rape though. I think it's a joke men and women can laugh at. Men at the idea of this over exaggerated vision of men in a situation they'd think nothing of and women at the idea of being such helpless things to be emotionally crushed by that same situation that they'd also be thinking nothing of.
EDIT: Actually, here's a question for you. If the stuff about sexual arousal was removed, would the joke be okay with you?
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It's about rape, dude. The entire point of the joke is that it's sexual gratification at the idea of rendering a victim utterly helpless and totally insecure.
a.k.a. rape.
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It's about rape, dude. The entire point of the joke is that it's sexual gratification at the idea of rendering a victim utterly helpless and totally insecure.
a.k.a. rape.
Well I don't think so. Might as well leave it at that.
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It's a kind of humour that may not travel too well though, you sort of need to understand the satire involved to realise it's a joke in the first place, because there are places in the world where the concept of women being brainless technophobes who need men to do anything more complex than fix their nails is actually firmly entrenched in the male psyche.
I suppose it's kind of like the Pepsi advert that almost justifies rape by deception :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiaNFcMSbmA
It's intended to be funny, but it comes across as far darker...
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If the stuff about sexual arousal was removed, would the joke be okay with you?
The entire point of the joke is that it's sexual gratification at the idea of rendering a victim utterly helpless and totally insecure.
Nope. That doesnt improve it a whole lot actually.
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I suppose it's kind of like the Pepsi advert that almost justifies rape by deception :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiaNFcMSbmA
It's intended to be funny, but it comes across as far darker...
Oh no, no, no. That's not the point of that at all. It's obvious she already had feelings for him the way she threw herself at him with such passion. All they did was help her to express them. It's sweet. It's the old story of the two people who the whole World can see love each other but they can't see it themselves or express it. Note the words about reaching out and showing someone you love them.
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If the stuff about sexual arousal was removed, would the joke be okay with you?
The entire point of the joke is that it's sexual gratification at the idea of rendering a victim utterly helpless and totally insecure.
Nope. That doesnt improve it a whole lot actually.
You're just... not seeing it the way I am. I don't know how to explain it better.
Look men and women can laugh at this. Men at this absurd vision of themselves as wild out of control animals and women at the idea of being these incredibly fragile things getting emotionally crushed over an incident that to both the male and the female in question would almost certainly be a nothing incident.
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I wouldn't call it laughing, Lorric. I'm certainly not. It's really ****ing easy to interpret that 'joke' exactly as Joshua and I are saying. It's actually harder to justify the line you're spinning. You don't think that says a whole lot about the joke itself?
Also that commercial features a guy coercing consent out of a woman on false pretenses. Also not cool.
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I think that, no matter how socially awkward either of a couple is, if you have to resort to telling them the world is ending to get them to sleep with you, and then celebrate the conquest by high-fiveing your mates as though you'd scored a touchdown, then the relationship is on the road to nowhere, except possibly the criminal courts.
Edit : And to clarify, I think what the producer was aiming for was a sort of 'romantic' angle that you are seeing, but complete lack of context is what damages that concept. Like I said, some comedy doesn't travel well.
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@ Scotty
Ehhhh... different people, different senses of humour I guess.
What I'm saying is I didn't see your line at all. It's harder to justify to you because that's how you saw it. I saw it different, so it's harder to justify that to me. Your brain and my brain spun completely different lines.
@ Flipside
I just don't see it that way.
Remember, it's a joke. In real life, it just wouldn't go down that way.
EDIT: *sees your edit*
I don't know why there is a lack of context. I saw it clearly. I imagine many people did. It certainly has plenty of thumbs up. Not everyone is going to see what you want them to see. It's pointless trying to please or anticipate everyone.
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You really think that a guy staring at you, standing very close to you, deliberately trying to make you uncomfortable whilst being sexually aroused is a joke?
That **** actually happened to me. I did not find it funny at all. And I daresay that's not because of my sense of humour.
Likewise I don't find the idea of a woman being scared the hell out of any better...
But mabye I just am too much of a social justice retard to laugh at the pain and suffering of others.
Remember, it's a joke. In real life, it just wouldn't go down that way.
I can make many jokes involving jews and gas. It wouldn't go down that way in real life either. That does not make it in any way funny.
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I disagree too ahahah. OMG. I just hope we get along while disagreeing, is that impossible? Come on I think we can do this.
Now, regarding the pepsi one. The interpretation that this is "coercive" is bull****. Let's be real, she decides to fly INTO him. There's no coercion like "IF YOU DONT DO THIS...". The thinking over it is a lot more like "Well, if you would die in the next few minutes, would you kiss the guy or not?", and the ad just answers this question with a ****ing air jump. Come on. Was it sleazy on his part? Of course. But that's not RAPE, come ooooooooon.
Regarding the laptop joke, I admit that it is a rape joke. But it's not the typical rape joke at all. Typical rape jokes actually include the actual event (I am not going to give examples). This is not it. It is a distinction between a paranoia dark inner mind world where all the feminist nightmares are indeed happening and the actual real world where the only thing that is happening is a man helping a woman fix her laptop out of his gratuitous goodwill. The joke is at extreme Feminism's expense, or any other paranoia that posits that really DARK and EVIL realities are happening RIGHT BEFORE OUR VERY EYES when it's actually just a common vulgar irrelevant event. The last line is incredible, because it's so coherent with both worlds.
Now I think people were offended by the rapey tone of it all, and I understand. I apologize for introducing it, though I still find it funny and it saddens me that some people just don't see it.
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Remember, it's a joke. In real life, it just wouldn't go down that way.
Thats a dangerous line of thinking to assume that. The are people who would get this 'bright idea' from such ads and then get themselves into a big mess ultimately leading to them probably suing the company who made said ad.
The common recent examples of this are games, you would assume that people would think, its a game, that wont happen in real life, yet you get people who shoot up others in the pretense that they were inspired by video game X.
See the dangerous thinking?
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Regarding the laptop joke, I admit that it is a rape joke. But it's not the typical rape joke at all.
#notallrape
t is a distinction between a paranoia dark inner mind world where all the feminist nightmares are indeed happening
It's instead a rape joke designed to insult feminists. Right.
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No -Joshua-, I do not think these things are funny or acceptable.
I also do not laugh at the pain and suffering of others.
The joke is not endorsing these things.
EDIT: Well, maybe Luis can help you where I can't.
Remember, it's a joke. In real life, it just wouldn't go down that way.
Thats a dangerous line of thinking to assume that. The are people who would get this 'bright idea' from such ads and then get themselves into a big mess ultimately leading to them probably suing the company who made said ad.
The common recent examples of this are games, you would assume that people would think, its a game, that wont happen in real life, yet you get people who shoot up others in the pretense that they were inspired by video game X.
See the dangerous thinking?
On this, the minority is too tiny (and unpredictable) I think to worry about. If someone really intends to go on a shooting spree, they'll find inspiration somewhere. No way does a game make someone otherwise benign decide to go on a shooting spree.
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Well, part of the reason that I chose that particular clip is because a UK satire show picked up on it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCTrDN9Lsfo
I think it does a good job of pointing and laughing without being too judgmental, though the language may be NSFW for some.
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It's instead a rape joke designed to insult feminists. Right.
Too many people posting to keep up. :)
Radical "feminists". But also hopefully to open up some eyes.
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Radical "feminists". But also hopefully to open up some eyes.
Considering that I have never seen a feminist say something even remotely like the seriously awfull stuff you just posted, I think you just scored a few points for feminism.
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Regarding the laptop joke, I admit that it is a rape joke. But it's not the typical rape joke at all.
#notallrape
Rape jokes are fine. If you want to go to the nitty gritty, it's even common practice for *some* people who have actually suffered heavy traumas to make jokes about their traumas, it's one of the most therapeutic things one can ever do to surpass the traumas. I know it helped me in my own misfortunes quite a lot. All of the most dark jokes are about us being in that situation, not about "people who have been Xd".
I will not share any rape jokes here if you don't want me to! The purpose was to get a laugh, not weird you out, so don't be mad at me.
t is a distinction between a paranoia dark inner mind world where all the feminist nightmares are indeed happening
It's instead a rape joke designed to insult feminists. Right.
It's called satire. A common method of ridiculing ideologies, of any stripes. If you see "insults" in it it's your problem. No insults exist in there, just satire on an exaggerated form of an ideology. There are many many jokes about fascism, about communism, about capitalism, etc., etc. Jokes about ourselves are the best kinds of jokes, even. A person who is unable to laugh about him/herself is lacking something deep, IMO.
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I'll just state that I find rape jokes distasteful.
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All of the most dark jokes are about us being in that situation, not about "people who have been Xd".
And this joke really wasn't: It was about putting someone else in that situation, yet you keep defending it. I simply can not fathom why someone would do that, but I geuss I am just a social justice retard or something.
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OK, could the drama be split out of the WHIYL thread at some point?
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Even despite the subject of discussion, I'm really struggling to understand why it's so damn hard to avoid making things personal. Joshua, I got onto AtomicClucker for that phrase (ironically for the exact opposite reason), and you're not immune to that. Especially since it's pretty clear you're using it to disparage their entire line of thinking.
I'm splitting this out of WHIYL, but I won't be locking it because even if it's a bit heated there's some kernel of potentially constructive discussion to be found here. Taking things personally and reacting in kind is not it.
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Joshua, I got onto AtomicClucker for that phrase (ironically for the exact opposite reason), and you're not immune to that. Especially since it's pretty clear you're using it to disparage their entire line of thinking.
Yeah that was outta line. Sorry.
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All of the most dark jokes are about us being in that situation, not about "people who have been Xd".
And this joke really wasn't: It was about putting someone else in that situation, yet you keep defending it. I simply can not fathom why someone would do that, but I geuss I am just a social justice retard or something.
The joke also toys with your own lack of comfort with what you are reading until you slowly realise it's not real. I understand, it went through a line in your head and you just don't like it. I'm probably a lot more used to nasty jokes, having listened to every single Louis CK, Bill Burr and Jim Jefferies stand up specials. They are incredible, for they actually change your brain. If you think I'm nasty, boy, you sure can do worse than getting your brain muscles worked out with their acts.
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Laughing at the humiliation and dehumanization of another is human nature, in a way it's a survival trait to make sure you are not next on the list. But that has always made it a symbol of oppression for that exact reason.
To be honest, I'm no more comfortable around rape jokes than I am around jokes about 9/11 or jokes about Gabriel Giffords shooting. For some it is a 'coping mechanism' to laugh at something horrific, I understand that, but that humour needs to be aimed at the perpetrator, not the victim, and it is there that I find attitudes, particularly on the Internet, can get somewhat confused.
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Right, but the joke is not about laughing at the humiliation and dehumanization of another human being. That's not the funny part. That's the eschatological, nasty part of the joke that makes you uncomfortable. It does extend too long for some people, I get it.
I also don't agree with the "the joke has to be at the expense of the perpetrator" thing at all.
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Because being actually raped isn't funny and nor should it ever be made out to be so, it's not remotely funny.
If you are going to laugh at the act of rape then laugh at the perpetrator for being so sexually inept that he/she has to force themselves onto someone in order to get laid, by all means imply their sexual equipment is not up to the job without the threat of violence, but I'll be honest, anyone who thinks it is ok to laugh at the victim of a rape seriously needs to get themselves down to some protected shelters and safe houses to explain to some of the women living there just how hilarious it is.
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I think that particular point depends heavily on the subject matter. For example, I wouldn't feel nearly as negatively or as strongly toward a joke aimed at the victim of, say, highway robbery for the arbitrary example. It's not something that's a huge issue in our society, and it's not an event that leaves the sort of crippling mental wounds that last for decades. Something like rape? I will never, ever, ever find a joke funny that has a rape victim as the subject. Ever.
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Thing is, it's about blame, I can watch a video on youTube of someone who is a victim of their own actions, skateboard tricks gone horribly wrong etc, and that's because the person chose to do it, if you film yourself doing flips and end up with a mouth full of tarmac, well, no-one forced you to do it, you can effectively say 'Well, it's your own fault'.
Rape is kind of the opposite of that, laughing at them is, to my mind, expecting them to take a degree of responsibility for what happened when they were forced to do it.
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Because being actually raped isn't funny and nor should it ever be made out to be so, it's not remotely funny.
I hope you do realise the joke doesn't contain any rape whatsoever.
If you are going to laugh at the act of rape then laugh at the perpetrator for being so sexually inept that he/she has to force themselves onto someone in order to get laid, by all means imply their sexual equipment is not up to the job without the threat of violence, but I'll be honest, anyone who thinks it is ok to laugh at the victim of a rape seriously needs to get themselves down to some protected shelters and safe houses to explain to some of the women living there just how hilarious it is.
Two things. First, I'm pretty sure a talented comedian could create a joke outside your rules in a heartbeat. I'm not one though. Second, the joke I had didn't "laugh at the victim of a rape". There wasn't even a rape. It plays with the "rape joke" trope, but it never actually goes there. I'm beggining to think you didn't even read it properly.
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That's the eschatological, nasty part of the joke that makes you uncomfortable
If you think I'm nasty, boy, you sure can do worse than getting your brain muscles worked out with their acts.
Yeah **** that. I am out.
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I'll post jokes about triangles and circles next time, I swear.
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At the moment, I'm not dealing directly with your joke, as I've already said, I think the satire traveled badly in that specific case rather than the joke being 'pro-rape'. I replied to that specific case in my first post, so let's go a little easy on the accusations of 'not reading' things ;)
As for your first point, I think most talented comedians wouldn't bother trying, because they are talented comedians.
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Because being actually raped isn't funny and nor should it ever be made out to be so, it's not remotely funny.
I hope you do realise the joke doesn't contain any rape whatsoever.
If you are going to laugh at the act of rape then laugh at the perpetrator for being so sexually inept that he/she has to force themselves onto someone in order to get laid, by all means imply their sexual equipment is not up to the job without the threat of violence, but I'll be honest, anyone who thinks it is ok to laugh at the victim of a rape seriously needs to get themselves down to some protected shelters and safe houses to explain to some of the women living there just how hilarious it is.
Two things. First, I'm pretty sure a talented comedian could create a joke outside your rules in a heartbeat. I'm not one though. Second, the joke I had didn't "laugh at the victim of a rape". There wasn't even a rape. It plays with the "rape joke" trope, but it never actually goes there. I'm beggining to think you didn't even read it properly.
In a way, this is kind of the point. I mentioned it earlier, but while no physical rape occurs, the set up of the joke, the word choice, and the tone all point to an incident of metaphorical rape. It's the act of achieving sexual gratification at the expense of the 'victim's' sense of safety and security in forcible manner. It does not matter that there is not penis-in-vagina rape going on, any more than it matters that Charles Manson didn't pull the trigger.
Yes, that's an extreme analogy, but it fits and came immediately to mind.
EDIT: This all isn't even to say that humor can't be edgy or outrageous or uncomfortable. It's just to say that I will never, ever support or enjoy a rape joke, or a joke that presents itself in the same tone and general content.
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Missed a couple posts...
Well, part of the reason that I chose that particular clip is because a UK satire show picked up on it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCTrDN9Lsfo
I think it does a good job of pointing and laughing without being too judgmental, though the language may be NSFW for some.
Pretty funny. :)
Radical "feminists". But also hopefully to open up some eyes.
Considering that I have never seen a feminist say something even remotely like the seriously awfull stuff you just posted, I think you just scored a few points for feminism.
I presume you're going back to the joke posted by me.
I'm going to try one more time to make this make sense to you.
And let's get a sense of perspective here, no one's getting actually raped in either mine or Luis' joke. No one is being touched.
Back to my joke, this is about people who would get up in arms about the man being presented with the cheque. I'm sure there'd be no argument if the woman was. Because it's only sexist if it's the man, right? Remember this is at the expense of radical feminists, not reasonable everyday feminists. The kind of people who pump out lines like "all men are rapists" and think all men want to subjugate women and dominate them and think the only places for women are the kitchen, the bedroom, and pumping out children.
This is an exaggerated vision of the World through these people's eyes. I don't think even the worst radical "feminists" of the type I describe view the World literally as the joke portrays, but it's close enough for the connection to resonate with me and make me find it amusing.
So the male is portrayed as the dominant and sexually aroused enforcer of the "patriarchy", and the woman meanwhile is in the place you might think women would be if the fuss these radical "feminists" make was actually relatable to the impact incidents like these have on women. Of course, like the man, her distress and vulnerability is over-exaggerated.
This is the connection I see. To people who see benign incidents as expressions of male dominance and oppression, and by the way they talk as if females are the most unbelievably delicate things.
If you're not familiar in any way with the people in question, it may be impossible to see the connection and thus the part of this that is funny. And with that gone, I can see how this would look bad, because the necessary ingredient to find the joke funny is not there. For me I got it immediately, I didn't have to exercise any mental muscle to figure it out. It jumped right out at me, and I've never seen a joke like this before and I thought it most amusing and inventive.
6 posts since I wrote this! :lol:
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And let's get a sense of perspective here, no one's getting actually raped in either mine or Luis' joke. No one is being touched.
In case you'd forgotten (or were unaware, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt), the primary trauma of rape is not physical.
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In a way, this is kind of the point. I mentioned it earlier, but while no physical rape occurs, the set up of the joke, the word choice, and the tone all point to an incident of metaphorical rape. It's the act of achieving sexual gratification at the expense of the 'victim's' sense of safety and security in forcible manner. It does not matter that there is not penis-in-vagina rape going on, any more than it matters that Charles Manson didn't pull the trigger.
Yes, that's an extreme analogy, but it fits and came immediately to mind.
The joke is at the expense of the contrast between what really happens and the paranoid version of what "happened". The joke is not the rape. The joke is that the rape didn't happen.
EDIT: This all isn't even to say that humor can't be edgy or outrageous or uncomfortable. It's just to say that I will never, ever support or enjoy a rape joke, or a joke that presents itself in the same tone and general content.
Well, your loss!
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You get no such benefit of the doubt. :P Rape isn't a physical thing. At least, not entirely. Or even mostly. That's why I dislike the joke so much. I think you're getting too hung up on the lack of the physical to realize that the mental trauma is by far the greater of the pair.
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I mentioned it earlier, but while no physical rape occurs, the set up of the joke, the word choice, and the tone all point to an incident of metaphorical rape. It's the act of achieving sexual gratification at the expense of the 'victim's' sense of safety and security in forcible manner. It does not matter that there is not penis-in-vagina rape going on
I want to focus on this bit, but I read your whole post and it does help me to look at it through your eyes.
But that's not rape. Maybe it's brought it to mind for you, but it's not rape. It's what you said it is above:
It's the act of achieving sexual gratification at the expense of the 'victim's' sense of safety and security in forcible manner.
At worst.
And let's keep in mind the actions in question aren't actually going to induce the effects described. Even the joke-female isn't going to think she is being raped. Oppressed and humiliated but not raped. Even the joke-males aren't portrayed as going to actually go in and do anything sexual to the joke-female.
I still think that side of the joke is just a small piece. It's just a part of the exaggerated oppression. It's about the exaggerated oppression. You take it out and have the men just laughing and oppressing and it still works.
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Even the joke-female isn't going to think she is being raped.
Lorric, when I put a knife to your troat and press it deep but don't actually cut you deep enough for you to die...
... That's still really ****ed up, and you will sure as hell think I am going to kill you at that moment, even if I whisper "it's just a joke" in your ear.
"This situation is literally one step away from rape but it's not rape and therefore it's not bad" is not a viable excuse, period.
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You get no such benefit of the doubt. :P Rape isn't a physical thing. At least, not entirely. Or even mostly. That's why I dislike the joke so much. I think you're getting too hung up on the lack of the physical to realize that the mental trauma is by far the greater of the pair.
Oh no, I get that. It's why it's uncomfortable. Until I began to realise that the actual events were not matching to the mental description of them. Then I realised that the mental description was entirely lunatic. And then it ends in a phrase that approves both the insane interpretation and reality. I dunno, jokes are precisely funny because they are catching inconsistencies, "bugs", paradoxes, etc., in situations or ideas or whatever (Dennett, 200smth), so they are mostly a very brain-dependent thing. IOW, the joke "clicks" on me, and it's not because I'm a rape-tolerant guy.
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Lorric, when I put a knife to your troat and press it deep but don't actually cut you deep enough for you to die...
... That's still really ****ed up and it is going to leave you with some really big traumas. "This situation is literally one step away from rape but it's not rape and therefore it's not bad" is not a viable excuse, period.
Aren't you forgetting something? The stuff in question wouldn't cause this devastating impact in the real World. In Luis' joke a man helped a woman having computer trouble. In mine, he paid the bill at a restaurant.
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**** u all
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Thank you, Hades. Enjoy your day off.
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Sarcasm...
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The stuff in question wouldn't cause this devastating impact in the real World.
In a world where people have been raped for months on end whilst other people thought it was fine because they were dating, this is a really stupid statement. How far are you willing to go to defend a rape joke, seriously...
It's the act of achieving sexual gratification at the expense of the 'victim's' sense of safety and security in forcible manner.
At worst.
That's what rape is all about. It's about eroding the victim's sense of safety and security in a forcible manner. The whole "touching" thing is not the end goal, it's having absolute power and control over someone. This has already been established at the end of the joke.
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Sarcasm...
Irrelevant, inappropriate, inflammatory, non-constructive.
Have I sufficiently justified my moderation to you this time?
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@Joshua,
Well if that's the criteria, then nothing's funny. I think it's not wise to place yourself in such corners of "whataboutthechildren" traps. Jokes need not being defended. People already laugh at them every day, clearly they work out just fine. I do think that there are differences of interpretations here that were interesting to dissect though. I am still trying to understand if your gut reaction to it is a fair one or not, although you can guess where I'm leaning to.
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The stuff in question wouldn't cause this devastating impact in the real World.
In a world where people have been raped for months on end whilst other people thought it was fine because they were dating, this is a really stupid statement. How far are you willing to go to defend a rape joke, seriously...
I don't see a correlation.
Perhaps we should stop though. It's not working, is it? We're having a civilised conversation, but we're not really getting anywhere are we.
Can you be assured I do not condone abuse of people, or enjoy seeing people suffer and leave it at that? I like you -Joshua-. I like you more than I like a lot of people on this forum in fact. Yes, I think it best to metaphorically shake hands and stop.
Sarcasm...
Irrelevant, inappropriate, inflammatory, non-constructive.
Have I sufficiently justified my moderation to you this time?
Scotty, I have no issue with your moderation of Hades.
But you talk about sarcasm being bad, yet you don't mind putting the boot in when you ban someone with some sarcasm. You did it with me, remember? Have a nice day? (You weren't the one who did the ban, but you know what I'm talking about, right?)
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It's an issue of degree, frequency, intent, language, and context. I will not define the boundaries of what combination of each of those criteria is grounds for moderation.
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Can you be assured I do not condone abuse of people, or enjoy seeing people suffer and leave it at that? I like you -Joshua-. I like you more than I like a lot of people on this forum in fact. Yes, I think it best to metaphorically shake hands and stop.
Dude I have seen what rape has done to people in a very close and personal manner (and considering how common rape still is in our society, I am very much afraid that you will too), and as such this stuff affects me in a bad way. I've been terrorized by people who considered it their privelige to take mine away. I have repeatedly tried to explain to you why this makes me uncomfortable, and instead of a "I am sorry that you feel that way" people tell me that I need to understand the joke tehir way and that my way of understanding it is completey invalid and it's my fault or even my loss for not getting it. Luis said that I needed to toughen up, even. I am utterly astounded by this lack of empathy.
edit; This is going to sound very clichéd, but I am not angry or mad or in disagreement or... I am just really, really dissapointed.
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-Joshua- I'm sorry if the joke hurt you. That's not what jokes are supposed to do. Well, not unless you tell them in a malicious spirit, and that's not what I did. It's not what Luis did either, he was I'm sure trying to find some common ground through humour. In a kind of "well hey, at least we can agree on and be amused by this, right?" way.
I'm not trying to say your way is WRONG either. Just show you there's another way to look at it and that I don't find it humorous for horrible reasons, that's not the objective of the joke.
I don't think it's a cliche either, how you say you feel. I understand that feeling well. Please don't think ill of me.
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Sorry if you feel that way, I went out my way to apologize that my joke was offensive to some. I think you are overreacting to most of what I said, and I also was very explicit when I said that my interest was in trying to understand why it was so offensive to some people, not to tell you that your way of understanding was "completely invalid".
If that came across, I didn't meant it, or at least no more than you did by implying that I lack empathy and that my acceptance of the joke is totally invalid. You see, you cannot have it both ways. Either the joke is acceptable for some people and for others it is not (and there is no "valid" interpretations), or debating which interpretation is the valid one is acceptable. I am sorry, but you did not came across as being very understanding of people who find the joke funny, instead went on to try to state the joke was unnaceptable, period, and even went out of your way to report my post. Am I really the intolerant here?
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He's just struggling to get it. To connect with the part that is humorous. So with that disconnect, it just leaves it kind of as-is, and it's not exactly pretty with that understanding not there.
I've been trying to think of a suitable example of satire I didn't understand and didn't like until I later discovered what the point of it was and understood. I can't think of a suitable example, but I do know the feeling of being disgusted by a joke until I understood what it was properly. Might not even have found it funny after that, but would have at least got it when before I didn't and not think of it the same way anymore or think there was anything wrong with the people who found it funny where before I might have, not understanding the humour and misapplying their motives for laughing.
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No, I'm pretty sure he gets it.
I'm equally sure he finds it distasteful in the extreme.
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Longer post coming when I'm not on the phone but for those of you justifying the joke, why is it funny to make a joke about people who are radical feminists of this kind?
Is shooting fish in a barrel with a shotgun such entertainment for you that you're willing to get everyone else wet?
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The joke is not about "people who are radical feminists". It's about the ideology itself. Ideology, not people. Jokes that get into the paradoxes and issues of ideologies are fun to me. Just like the "In Soviet Russia" jokes are not about Russians.
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And would you be so tactless that you would try to defend your "In Soviet Russia..." joke if one slipped out at the Ukrainian embassy ball?
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Are you seriously suggesting they aren't telling hundreds of those everyday now? I think that's probably their top of the list kind of joke right now, unfortunately.
"In Soviet Russia, Russia does not Invade Ukraine territory, it is Ukraine that invades Ukrainian territory which is actually Russian", and so on.
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I think what Kara was getting at is that there are definite groups of people that would take offense to jokes like that. While I'm not about to say you can't enjoy your joke, the substance of the discussion has seemed so far to be along the lines of "No, it's funny, you just have to <x>" where <x> is something that some of us aren't prepared to agree with.
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Yes I get it now, although the ramifications of what is implied up there are a little creepy. I'm sorry, I didn't intend to offend anyone. I'm sad that the line of offense is set so low though, but it's life I guess.
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I don't think I agree that rape jokes are necessarily setting the bar low in terms of offense. :P
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Okay, time to deal with this "rape jokes" issue. Gladstone summed it up better than I ever could in this great article on cracked.com (http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-questions-people-debating-rape-jokes-should-ask-themselves/).
Basically the issue is whether the joke is funny, satirical and being told at the right time and place for it. Luis, you completely failed at the third of those and that's why you've gotten so much **** on this thread. You've then made it worse by trying to blame the fact you went up on stage and got booed by the audience on the audience. If people don't find you funny, either you told the wrong joke or you simply aren't funny. A true master comedian can make a group of old people laugh saying nothing that Bob Hope wouldn't have been willing to put in his act while still being funny to an edgier crowd. The fault is not the audience 99% of the time.
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I surrender I surrender!
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No, I'm pretty sure he gets it.
I'm equally sure he finds it distasteful in the extreme.
Yeah well, this. Also because it originally posted in defiance of a mod's authority, but that hardly bothers me now in relation to all the other posts made in this thread.
Karajorma have you read my PM?
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Basically the issue is whether the joke is funny, satirical and being told at the right time and place for it. Luis, you completely failed at the third of those and that's why you've gotten so much **** on this thread. You've then made it worse by trying to blame the fact you went up on stage and got booed by the audience on the audience. If people don't find you funny, either you told the wrong joke or you simply aren't funny. A true master comedian can make a group of old people laugh saying nothing that Bob Hope wouldn't have been willing to put in his act while still being funny to an edgier crowd. The fault is not the audience 99% of the time.
This analogy falls apart when you consider that even master comedians get hecklers, and that the nature of online feedback means that the hecklers are all that you will hear from in this kind of environment.
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Well, discussion boards are powered by response, so sometimes it's best, I've found, just to find something better to do than respond to the thread.
I suppose, at the end of the day, jokes such as that aren't breaking any rules, they aren't condoning the act, but I would also suggest that if nothing nibbles the hook, the Fisherman may go find somewhere else to fish, as it were.
I'm not attacking Lorric or Luis themselves, and I'm as guilty as the next person when it comes to rising to things I see as bait on occasion, but since the rules of the forum are 'respond to the comments, not the people', maybe we should consider that silence also carries a message. If we continue the comedian analogy, they would prefer heckling from an audience to no response whatsoever.
I know this is a Discussion board, ergo, it's for discussing things, but it's also multi-cultural, multi-age and supposedly multi-gender, though it is not hard to see why we have so few female members.
As I said, this isn't a comment about Lorric or anyone else, you'll never get rid of sexual innuendo or gender-based humor entirely, or, at the very least, not for several generations yet, but I think the majority of us are old enough and intelligent enough to be able to be a bit...well... adult about adult humour.
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No, I'm pretty sure he gets it.
I'm equally sure he finds it distasteful in the extreme.
Yeah well, this. Also because it originally posted in defiance of a mod's authority
I think I need to clear this up. I want you to know why I posted in the first place.
It was because of this:
Luis, this is not 4chan. Humor is not in a vacuum, you must consider your audience. Being a colossal asshole passes for humor there. It does not here.
And this is how Luis felt:
Scotty:
1. I am not an asshole, I politely request you take that insult back;
2. I am not colossal, I politely request you take that compliment back;
3. I am not a 4chan participant, my jokes were absolutely kosher (that last one is from youtube FYI). If anything, they are at the expense of radical extremists' talking points, which are to be ridiculed as much as anti-vaxxers or other wacky fundamentalists, nothing more;
4. Because I don't think I have done anything wrong, like for instance insulting other members clearly is, I politely request you take that warning back.
Thank you for your time.
I thought the joke was funny. So how do you think I felt? I felt the same. I felt insulted. I felt like he was saying the joke belonged on 4chan, and thus anyone who finds it funny belongs on 4chan. I wanted to show him that there was at least one other person here who found it funny.
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I am fully capable of reading posts. I am also fully capable of seeing a case where someone fails to recognize why he is being called out and tries very hard to defend his right to be-the-guy-who-he-is (in this case, the right to post rape jokes) without any consideration to what others think outside from saying they are wrong to think that way. Those may not be the actions of an colossal asshole, but they sure as hell make you look like one.
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Are you talking about Luis or me (or both of us)?
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In this specific case, Luis. I've already expressed how I felt about your posts in the PMs.
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Right. Thanks.
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And would you be so tactless that you would try to defend your "In Soviet Russia..." joke if one slipped out at the Ukrainian embassy ball?
Every joke has a time and place. So I wouldnt tell rape jokes at a rape convention. But here on HLP? I dont think it is too inappropriate. The joke itself was pretty funny if I can say so, and it was not really endorsing rape because its entire premise and punchline is about the fact that there is no actual rape happening. It could be a lot worse as far as rape jokes go.
There is a big subreddit dedicated to this type of absurd jokes:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TalesofPrivilege/top/
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Well, by all means, post those kinds of jokes to that particular forum, it's true, this place may not be a rape-victim convention but, this is a public forum dedicated to a Space Game that is designed to appeal to gamers of all ages, it's not some kind of private club where we can metaphorically unbutton our jeans and let it all hang out.
Let me put forward one simple thought. This Forum is releasing Mods of increasing quality and they are gaining increasing interest in Media circles, as Diaspora showed. Do we really, as a community, want representatives of Media that may be able to promote and raise awareness of Mods to a massive degree coming here and finding that kind of attitude on the General Discussion forum? Do you think it would increase or decrease the chances of those Mods getting the coverage they deserve?
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But here on HLP? I dont think it is too inappropriate. The joke itself was pretty funny if I can say so, and it was not really endorsing rape because its entire premise and punchline is about the fact that there is no actual rape happening. It could be a lot worse as far as rape jokes go.
Why would you think HLP is a safe space for this bull****? Do you honestly believe that the moderating staff wants it to be, despite everything people with mod badges have said in this thread?
We want HLP to be welcoming to most people. Frankly put, the style of humour employed by Luis here and endorsed by you has no place here.
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The default state is that slightly controversial jokes are allowed in informal setting. Unless they are particularly distasteful or spammed around, and this was neither.
I see no reason to treat HLP general discussion differently. This is not a rape survivor forum or a forum for little kids.
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Please don't force your narrow definitions of what is good and what is not upon the rest of us.
Flipside, I wouldn't worry. The chances of such a person even coming in here I think would be low, and even if they did, this is tame compared to the semi-regular occurances where we tear each other apart over things. And do you really believe it would influence them to change their mind? I mean really? Would you? Would you care? Why would you care?
666maslos666, thanks for the link. I'm really taken with this new style of humour and I will be checking it out later.
It's also nice to know Luis and I are not standing alone on an island with regard to this kind of humour.
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Why would you think HLP is a safe space for this bull****? Do you honestly believe that the moderating staff wants it to be, despite everything people with mod badges have said in this thread?
We want HLP to be welcoming to most people. Frankly put, the style of humour employed by Luis here and endorsed by you has no place here.
HLP GD hasn't been a hugbox for years, I don't see why its suddenly supposed to be a 'trigger free' zone.
I for one like black and 'inapproprate' kind of humor, it bugs me how I keep seeing people throwing hissy fits about jokes here. Grow a thicker skin instead of getting all sensitive about the little things in life. Enforcing political correctness, blah.
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Why would you think HLP is a safe space for this bull****? Do you honestly believe that the moderating staff wants it to be, despite everything people with mod badges have said in this thread?
We want HLP to be welcoming to most people. Frankly put, the style of humour employed by Luis here and endorsed by you has no place here.
HLP GD hasn't been a hugbox for years, I don't see why its suddenly supposed to be a 'trigger free' zone.
I for one like black and 'inapproprate' kind of humor, it bugs me how I keep seeing people throwing hissy fits about jokes here. Grow a thicker skin instead of getting all sensitive about the little things in life. Enforcing political correctness, blah.
Yeah, I basically agree with this.
I was just thinking to myself how I'd react if the roles were reversed. In fact, let's take it up a couple of notches. So tomorrow, I log in. There's some new content in the jokes thread. And it makes me feel dirty. It makes my skin crawl. And I'm not the only one. But there are also people enjoying it. And the joke itself is harmless, it just goes really badly against my own personal tastes.
What do I do? Nothing. That's what. What right have I to place my sense of humour and personal tastes above those of others if the joke itself is harmless? Why spoil their fun? I'm not going to get up in arms because today the World didn't pander to my every sensibility. Especially when I will recognise the spirit in which the post was made.
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So because it's ok to make ****ty rape jokes elsewhere, it should be ok here too?
Please don't force your narrow definitions of what is good and what is not upon the rest of us.
Yeah, sorry, but "forcing my definitions on what is good and what is not" on the rest of you is kinda part of the job description of forum moderator.
Flipside, I wouldn't worry. The chances of such a person even coming in here I think would be low, and even if they did, this is tame compared to the semi-regular occurances where we tear each other apart over things. And do you really believe it would influence them to change their mind? I mean really? Would you? Would you care? Why would you care?
What.
Let me turn this around on you, do you honestly believe this place is better if rape jokes are an ok thing to post? What do you think is the positive impact of letting such bull**** stand without discussion or repercussions?
It's also nice to know Luis and I are not standing alone on an island with regard to this kind of humour.
Well, you kinda are. It's not that this kind of humour has no place anywhere, it's just that it has no place here.
I for one like black and 'inapproprate' kind of humor, it bugs me how I keep seeing people throwing hissy fits about jokes here. Grow a thicker skin instead of getting all sensitive about the little things in life. Enforcing political correctness, blah.
So back when we banned people over being ****ty towards suicidal people, was that wrong too? Should we have told them that they should toughen up and grow a thicker skin too?
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So because it's ok to make ****ty rape jokes elsewhere, it should be ok here too?
You think they're ****ty. Others don't.
Yeah, sorry, but "forcing my definitions on what is good and what is not" on the rest of you is kinda part of the job description of forum moderator.
No it's not. You don't get to shape this place into an extension of your own personal tastes. You're here to enforce the forum rules, equally and impartially. The forum rules are not your definitions of what is good and what is not. The forum rules were not solely created by you.
What.
Let me turn this around on you, do you honestly believe this place is better if rape jokes are an ok thing to post? What do you think is the positive impact of letting such bull**** stand without discussion or repercussions?
If we were going to remove things that made this place worse, this would be far, far, FAR down the list. If it even belongs on the list at all. I don't think it does.
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To be honest, I'm a little too stunned at what I've been reading to form a response, but I'll try...
Those who have been the victim of sexual abuse do not spend their entire online lives on forums dedicated to what happened to them, they actually want to put it behind them, just because this is not a forum for rape abuse victims doesn't mean that nobody on this forum has ever suffered sexual abuse, and I'm not even sure how that particular fact adds up to 'permission to tell rape jokes' in the first place, it reeks of 'Quick! They're not looking, now we can tell jokes about the horrible thing that happened to them!'.
To be honest, I'm not sure I feel at all comfortable being associated with that kind of mentality.
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Well, speaking just for me, I don't actually plan on posting rape jokes here. And the one I posted, I had no idea it had anything to do with rape, even remotely. This particular style of humour however is not about rape, and I appreciate what it is about.
For me this is more about the notion of trying to stamp something out just because they personally don't like it.
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What do I do? Nothing. That's what. What right have I to place my sense of humour and personal tastes above those of others if the joke itself is harmless? Why spoil their fun? I'm not going to get up in arms because today the World didn't pander to my every sensibility. Especially when I will recognise the spirit in which the post was made.
Which is your prerogative. Other people have differing opinions on the subject, and if someone has enough of a problem with a given post to report it, we kinda have to take a look at it and make a decision about whether to engage or not. Which means that sometimes we end up agreeing with the person who made the report.
Also, this statement coming from someone who not very long ago went on a spree of reporting everything he found slightly objectionable and who very recently resumed the habit of acting like a backseat moderator is rather strange.
No it's not. You don't get to shape this place into an extension of your own personal tastes. You're here to enforce the forum rules, equally and impartially. The forum rules are not your definitions of what is good and what is not. The forum rules were not solely created by you.
Fun fact: I do get to exercise my own judgment in these things. So my personal views on matters like these does come into it, which is why we have more than one moderator.
If we were going to remove things that made this place worse, this would be far, far, FAR down the list. If it even belongs on the list at all. I don't think it does.
Answer the question, please.
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Also, this statement coming from someone who not very long ago went on a spree of reporting everything he found slightly objectionable and who very recently resumed the habit of acting like a backseat moderator is rather strange.
I'm not going to engage with you if you're going to do this.
I do not report things I find slightly objectionable.
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Past tense. There was a point in time where you reported quite a lot of things simply because you disagreed with their content. The present tense part of that sentence refers to your habit of trying to play moderator.
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I only ever reported things that I thought broke the rules.
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That's probably why you don't write the rules, then, because a lot of those were very, very far from breaking the rules. And it's still ultimately irrelevant.
As has been alluded to in this thread by The_E and Karajorma already, HLP's acceptable behavior policy may not match up with what you, personally, think is acceptable behavior. In a conflict between these two sets of values, the site values win, as enforced by moderators. Arguing that something is acceptable somewhere else is not a valid argument. Arguing that something should be acceptable because of x, y, or z is not (necessarily) a valid argument.
Put quite simply, neither you, nor any other individual user determine what constitutes acceptable behavior on HLP. You're welcome to try and find out through trial and error, but do not be surprised or complain or argue about it when we determine you've crossed a line. That's what warnings are for.
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So back when we banned people over being ****ty towards suicidal people, was that wrong too? Should we have told them that they should toughen up and grow a thicker skin too?
I don't know as I don't have any context about any of those events. Define 'being ****ty' for me.
Edit: I guess what actually bugs me is on how much **** Luis dias and Lorric are getting in this thread.
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I just wanted to chime in and voice my agreement with what the other staff members have said in here. We want this to be a place where everyone is welcome, and a few of you REALLY need to take some lessons in social etiquette if you think that those jokes are considered appropriate for a general audience. There are plenty of ****holes all over the Internet where such things are acceptable (like the aforementioned reddit!), so if you're that determined to post them, I highly suggest you do so there.
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So back when we banned people over being ****ty towards suicidal people, was that wrong too? Should we have told them that they should toughen up and grow a thicker skin too?
Going to chime in here since it directly applies to me, I have no problem with those types of people
Actually, was that what happened to Nuke outright?
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We gave Nuke some time off for telling someone to go shoot up a school to help their depression. I honestly don't know whether that ban has expired or not, but I certainly don't miss his attitude.
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Karajorma have you read my PM?
I have now, if you'd still like me to act on it, send me a message.
Flipside, I wouldn't worry. The chances of such a person even coming in here I think would be low, and even if they did, this is tame compared to the semi-regular occurances where we tear each other apart over things. And do you really believe it would influence them to change their mind? I mean really? Would you? Would you care? Why would you care?
Obviously you are unaware that the obnoxious attitudes of some posters on this board to the Space Shuttle crash is the main reason that Dave B no longer posts on here. So yes, if it comes down to having a forum with rape jokes or a forum where one of the people who wrote Freespace 2 posts, I'm going to choose the latter.
As for the this is tame compared to other **** that sometimes happens, the idea is to stamp out that ****. We don't want that happening any more either.
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I keep trying to write a full message and keep messing it up. I might have another go at it some other time. But the bottom line is I've basically been persuaded. I hope 2015 sees HLP be a more welcoming place.
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To be honest, I'm a little too stunned at what I've been reading to form a response, but I'll try...
Those who have been the victim of sexual abuse do not spend their entire online lives on forums dedicated to what happened to them, they actually want to put it behind them, just because this is not a forum for rape abuse victims doesn't mean that nobody on this forum has ever suffered sexual abuse, and I'm not even sure how that particular fact adds up to 'permission to tell rape jokes' in the first place, it reeks of 'Quick! They're not looking, now we can tell jokes about the horrible thing that happened to them!'.
To be honest, I'm not sure I feel at all comfortable being associated with that kind of mentality.
The fact that rape victims dont spend their entire lives on dedicated forums is precisely why it is completely absurd to expect them to never encounter a rape joke. Controversial jokes including rape jokes (no special exceptions) are occasionally part of life outside of specific places that cater to their victims. Make no mistake, being strongly triggered by every rape joke is a psychiatric diagnosis. It is not something normal, not even among sexual assault victims. We should not go out of our way to be triggering to rape victims, which is why I said every joke has a time and a place. But we certainly should not change entire society and censor ourselves just to cater to a very small minority of psychologically abnormal people. They are the ones with an issue and need therapy or support, not the society.
This forum has no connection to sexual assault. It is a totally neutral place from that perspective, just like 99% of the internet and the world. So this is not about rape at all. This is about whether we are allowed to tell slightly violent or triggering or controversial jokes, in general. Or we are not. I think we should be.
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Also, the joke in question was not even a rape joke. Its about gender stereotypes taken ad absurdum (meant to be a satire of microaggressions or "first-world problems" of radical feminism). There is no rape and the joke is not about rape.
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Yes, victims should accommodate other people's sick sense of humour borne of their ignorance of what the other person endured, that's a great way to approach the world...
God this forum makes me sick sometimes...
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This is about whether we are allowed to tell slightly violent or triggering or controversial jokes, in general. Or we are not. I think we should be.
Why should you be? Can you make a case why horrible jokes should be an OK thing to make? Why your right to free speech (as laughable and inapplicable as it is in this venue) trumps the expectation of people coming here not to be reminded of horrible events in their lives?
You are absolutely right, this is not a "rape survivor" forum. But neither is this a "make fun of rape" forum.
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This is about whether we are allowed to tell slightly violent or triggering or controversial jokes, in general. Or we are not. I think we should be.
And the vast majority of the board seems to disagree with you, as does every single member of the moderation staff who has bothered to post. So guess what, you're outvoted. Take that **** somewhere it is appreciated, cause it isn't wanted here.
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I never thought my joke would explode these emotions from so many people and that was never my intention. I also don't think overreacting or reading too much into what other people are saying is required. 666 is not saying something utterly despicable, and I really doubt that this reaction will convince him he's wrong at all. The only reason I kept commenting here was to try to understand the position of utter grossness that some people got out of what I deemed very differently, and the only gripe that still remains in my head is how trigger happy some people are about reporting stuff like my own satire that I wrote before that joke, and then come back and say I'm the intolerant one that doesn't just pat in their heads and say condescendingly "I understand sorry".
I actually had more respect for you than that, and no, I wasn't being the intolerant one. If you guys have any problem with what I am saying, I tell you that personally you will end any drama real fast if you actually talk to me personally rather than calling the dean on the schoolyard and tell them I'm misbehaving. Because when I do "misbehave", I don't do it on purpose. I might be doing it like an elephant in a glass store, and I apologize for that. But no, calling me a colossal asshole is probably not the best approach to shut it down.
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To be honest Luis, I think this has gone way beyond the specific joke you posted. That would have just led to an 'Oi! Calm it down!' reaction and that would have been pretty much that.
The bigger problem was the attitude towards these kinds of jokes that followed in some cases.
The world is a nasty place that says nasty things because people give themselves permission to do so because 'the world is a nasty place that says nasty things'... The cause thinks it is the effect, and that is the problem.
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Yes, victims should accommodate other people's sick sense of humour borne of their ignorance of what the other person endured, that's a great way to approach the world...
God this forum makes me sick sometimes...
Please don't say that. There is nothing sick about enjoying these kinds of jokes.
To me, it truly is innocent fun the way I look at it, and it's not about rape. Calling this joke innocent may come as a great surprise to some people, but it really is to me.
Even if I understand there is a potential for someone to be emotionally disturbed by the joke, it doesn't change my sense of humour on the matter at all, or make me sick for enjoying it.
I just wanted to chime in and voice my agreement with what the other staff members have said in here. We want this to be a place where everyone is welcome, and a few of you REALLY need to take some lessons in social etiquette if you think that those jokes are considered appropriate for a general audience. There are plenty of ****holes all over the Internet where such things are acceptable (like the aforementioned reddit!), so if you're that determined to post them, I highly suggest you do so there.
This post was very interesting to me. I also know it would take the right kind of person to speak these words to get me to really consider them, which in itself is quite interesting. And thankfully Mongoose, you are that kind of person. You've always been a very friendly person in my opinion around here, and I've always found my interactions with you pleasant and enjoyable. So when you say something like a few of us really need lessons in social skills, it makes me think you're really serious about this, where someone else, I might instead see it as an expression of smug superiority and contempt.
The thing is, life teaches us social skills, and my life would teach me this is nothing. Rape-style language is everywhere. It's in the open, it's not something hidden in dark corners, it's in the open, and it's normal. A common phrase I hear for instance is "so I should just bend over and take it?" or some other variation, like "He just bent over and took it." "They think I'll just bend over and take it." It's not exactly a rape saying, but a common saying I hear is "All mouth and no trousers."
Funnily enough I watched a Youtube video yesterday, and a rape joke was told in it. Video has nothing to do with rape jokes, it just came out in casual conversation in the middle of the video.
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Given your history on this forum, you're pretty much the last person who should be defending what is and isn't an innocent joke, especially when dealing with the subject of rape.
In the end, this entire shameful excuse for a thread comes down to people desperately trying to claim that they aren't in the wrong for doing something that the moderators have already told them repeatedly not to be doing. People really, really need to stop putting such effort into defending their right to be awful, inconsiderate, unempathetic, human beings.
And if you really, really have to defend your right to be like that, do it elsewhere cause I'm closing this thread and I don't ever want to see this kind of **** on HLP ever again.