[Gank]

He kicked them out because they were spying for the CIA, iirc thats been confirmed by one of the inspectors themselves. And I dont think the way you describe it is exactly how it happened, they were supposed to have the power to visit anywhere anytime without warning, though I imagine it would have been hard to keep things secret driving around in bright white jeeps with UN painted on the side.

[Grey Wolf]

Saddam was incredibly charismatic, and probably pretty smart. Probably suffered from a bit of "Stalin syndrome". Paranoia that comes true.

[Rictor]

So you still maintain that there are WMD, but the fcact that you're never ever going to find them (barring someone planting them) is just a testament to Saddam's willieness. Riiiight.

[Liberator]

Kaz, I think you have misunderstood the definition of the word "misogyny".  

You are acusing Goober and others of us of an actual hatred of women, simply because we believe that while women are capable of almost anything a man is, their traditional role as a mother and caregiver is what they are best at.

How is it hatred to restrict access to a dangerous medical procedure?

You'll notice that the moral decay of this country became noticable only when the threat of pregnancy was taken away as a cogent risk of promiscuity.  When people were able to stop analyzing their potential partners as potential lifemates and instead thought of them as a quick lay, the relationship that is required for lifelong commitment is damaged.

Why is the divorce rate so high?  People are too busy having sex to talk about their problems.

[Rictor]

Originally posted by Liberator
Kaz, I think you have misunderstood the definition of the word "misogyny".  

You are acusing Goober and others of us of an actual hatred of women, simply because we believe that while women are capable of almost anything a man is, their traditional role as a mother and caregiver is what they are best at.

How is it hatred to restrict access to a dangerous medical procedure?

You'll notice that the moral decay of this country became noticable only when the threat of pregnancy was taken away as a cogent risk of promiscuity.  When people were able to stop analyzing their potential partners as potential lifemates and instead thought of them as a quick lay, the relationship that is required for lifelong commitment is damaged.

Why is the divorce rate so high?  People are too busy having sex to talk about their problems.

...kind of agree with that. Just cause men and women are supposed to be equal, does not mean that they are equally capable of doing certain tasks. Not that it should be restricted, but there are important difference between the teo genders.

And the "moral decay" of which you speak is not nearly so huge an issue nor so simple a one as you make it out to be. And its not just to do with promiscuity or whatever. People being shallow, apathetic, ignorant and intolerant has nothing to do with the loss of Christian value and everything to do with a great many other factors.

[Kazan]

Libby - just for reference

There are six stages of moral thinking broken into these three categories (listed simplist->most complex - learned in that order, but many adults never achieve Post-C stage due to their dogma and petulance)

Pre-Conventional : Children Think with way
Conventional: People like you think this way - 'black and white'
Post-Conventional: Abstract morality that requires a sharp mind to understand.

Conventional and Post-Conventinal clash very often - because Conventionalists cannot think abstractly, think everything is black and white

that's what the abortion debate comes down to - you think everything is black and white and cannot see the complexities of the situation and refuse to acknolwege that there are severe health risks related to pregnancy (and CLINICAL abortions have almost zero risks)

------------------------------

Fundamentalism practices misogyny, wheter you PERSONALLY go that far is debatable.  However indoctrination of gender roles has been universally condemend and shown to be psychologically damaging to BOTH sexes

Originally posted by Liberator
You'll notice that the moral decay of this country

Which only exists in your mind - you're really refering to the decay of "Black and White" thinking because society is maturing past the 'Conventional' stage to the 'Post-Conventional' stage

Thank you for being a glaring example of someone using slanting language stemming from ignorance and lack of understanding of complex issues

became noticable only when the threat of pregnancy was taken away as a cogent risk of promiscuity.

You act as if sex is something evil - it is not.  There are TWO species on this planet that have sex for pleasure - Humans and Dolphins.  (It's a social behavior in bonobos.. not a 'enjoyment').  

Acting like 'sex is is evil', which is what you're doing right now, is highly immature and rests on irrationallity NOT on real knowledge.  Sexual relations are the extension of a healthly interpersonal romatic relationship.   Acting as if they're something 'evil' outside the definition of your religion's marriage is irrational, immature and PSYCHOLOGICALLY DAMAGING.   The studies sit there and glare at you with universal support of the scientific community and you ignore them.

However - having sex TOO readily is just as dangerous as acting as it's evil.  Sex is something that should be reserved to certain people, but not forbidden and treated as if it was evil.


Fruthermore - "Threat morality" is PRE-CONVENTIONAL, it's what CHILDREN use

 

 When people were able to stop analyzing their potential partners as potential lifemates and instead thought of them as a quick lay, the relationship that is required for lifelong commitment is damaged.

That is debateable at best: however, no matter what, increased sexual freedom isn't the root cause of problems with relationships

The real problem with relationships is mostly due to parenting.  Most of the parenting you advocate has glaringly negative effects - most importantly people don't develop proper interpersonal skills.  I highly suggest you actually READ about this subject in a MODERN PSYCHOLOGY book, but I guess learning real knowledge is against your religion by all evidence of the activity of your religions members, and the outright hostility for learning that your religions leaders indoctrinate into you.


 

Why is the divorce rate so high?  People are too busy having sex to talk about their problems.

Wrong, because people are not learning proper interpersonal skills due to poor parenting and being indoctrinated into 'black and white' thinking.  

The divorce rate is LOWEST among atheists and HIGHEST amoung fundamentalist catholics.

[Liberator]

Abstract thinking is going to destroy the species one day, mark my words.

There are some things that are or are not, very few things in real life have a gray area.

I never said sex is evil, your misrepresenting me and my view with an ignorance of your own.  Christianity hasn't taught that sex is evil in over 150 years.  Sex is a beautiful thing.  It's also meant to take place between a married man and his wife, exclusively.  Not before the marriage ceremony and not with other people before or after the marriage ceremony.

Kazan, I find myself a little worried about you when you post these slightly esoteric responses that consist largely of psycho-babble from whatever college course you happen to be in.  If you are persuing a degree in psychology, fine.  But I, and most of the rest of us I suspect, are getting very tired of you accusing us of having every single mental disorder on the planet and then try and place yourself above circumspection.  There is a name for that, of course you may nor have gotten this far in your psych courses, but it's called a Superiority Complex, and whether you can back it up or not, humble people tend to be better liked that egotistical buggers.

[Kazan]

Liberator: it's not from "whatever college course I'm in" - it's from BOOKS, I READ, a LOT, it's from SCIENTIFIC BOOKS that CITE SOURCES

I find myself extremely worried that people like YOU even EXIST.  Haha, I haven't started accusing you of being schizophrenic, manic depressive, major depressive, munchhausens byproxen or a million other psychologicals.   Being that i CAN backup my statements, and the only psychological disorder i've accused you of is a neurochemical addiciton to religion - which is exactly WHY people have religion, anyone who has religion and isn't neurchemically addicted isn't religious after talking to me for a few days.

Being that I CAN backup my statements about what I say you have, and what facts I present, and more importantly I wouldn't be wasting my breath [typing] on someone who I didn't think capable of one day kicking religion out of their life I do not have a Superiority Complex.

If i had a superiority Complex I wouldn't feel the need to justify my actions, qualify my statements and present evidence. If I had a superiority complex I would merely say you're a total ****ing retard with no valid opinions at all.   No libby even you have a valid opinion from time to time.  


You can try and marginalize my knowledge all you want, but all you do is what you just did argumentum ad hominem  - You cannot refute the information i presented in refutation of your ill-formed opinion.   Have the guts to admit you're wrong once in a while, I do when someone proves me wrong.

[Omniscaper]

wow


Thats some high horse you're on, Kazan. Be careful, its a rather long way down,


You seem to fancy yourself as some intellectual elitist with all this knowledge which no one should dare contest. In my perspective, your attitude ironically reminds me of those subway religious fanatics who scream out at people, telling them that they will go to hell if they refuse to change.  Its an attitude replete with disrespect, tactlessness, and especially arrogance.

You can attract more bees with honey than with vinegar you know.

[Kazan]

Omniscaper: I challenge Liberator to refute it, but I simultaenously know he cannot.  I never enter a major argument without having the preponderance of evidence behind me.  I choose my battles

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Liberator
Abstract thinking is going to destroy the species one day, mark my words.

I think you got that one backwards.

There are some things that are or are not, very few things in real life have a gray area.

Correction. Everything is gray. There is no black and white.

I never said sex is evil, your misrepresenting me and my view with an ignorance of your own.  Christianity hasn't taught that sex is evil in over 150 years.  Sex is a beautiful thing.  It's also meant to take place between a married man and his wife, exclusively.  Not before the marriage ceremony and not with other people before or after the marriage ceremony.

That are personal beliefs which I do not share at all. It's freakishly arrogant of you to think this goes for everyone in the entire friggin' world. If you choose to do so, it's fine. But let others do as they please.

Kazan, I find myself a little worried about you when you post these slightly esoteric responses that consist largely of psycho-babble from whatever college course you happen to be in.  If you are persuing a degree in psychology, fine.  But I, and most of the rest of us I suspect, are getting very tired of you accusing us of having every single mental disorder on the planet and then try and place yourself above circumspection.  There is a name for that, of course you may nor have gotten this far in your psych courses, but it's called a Superiority Complex, and whether you can back it up or not, humble people tend to be better liked that egotistical buggers. [/B]

You obviously don't know what a superiority complex is. Anyway, Kazan is really not the only one to think like this. i agree with him on most points. (Note: Most, not all )