[Fade Rathnik]

How bout this as a crazy thought mabye a knossos could block off or seal a node as one of its features. If it could collapse a node then it could trap anything on the other side. Now for all that Shivans had lots of tech they weren't all that creative over all, they did have the bigger and badder thing down. So i wonder if they could reaverse(sp) engineer a knossos. Hell they wasted the race that built the Knossos and the supspace detector had all the spoils and didnt make a steath system for subspace.  Maybe all they can do is identify what something is (if that even) and reproduce it using their methods, not nessisarily make something from another race work for them.

Just some thoughts

[karajorma]

Originally posted by ngtm1r
They wanted to be sure.

So turn it off then blow it up. Command might be stupid but I don't believe that they are stupid enough not to realise that they can place the meson bombs much more easily and effectively if they've turned the Knossos off.
 Not to mention that turning the Knossos off would have prevented Shivan ships coming through it to mess up their attempts to blow it up.

On top of that if the Knossos is that easy to turn off it probably would have been fairly simple to turn on too but Bosch's adventures in Deneb show that it was actually hard to turn on. After all if you put in password protection etc to make the Knossos hard to turn on because of its strategic value then it makes just as much sense to make it hard to turn off for the same reasons.

[NGTM-1R]

Personally, I suspect the problem Bosch had was simply he had to know what the "on" switch looked like first, and for that, he needed a standard for comparison.

[karajorma]

That's pretty much what I think the problem was too but if it was so hard to find, wouldn't the GTVA have similar problems finding it in order to turn it off again?

[Boomer]

How bout this as a crazy thought mabye a knossos could block off or seal a node as one of its features.

It's an interesting thought.  If it can stabilize, it should be able to destabilize too.  But if it could destabilize a jump node, why didn't the Ancients just seal all the entrances to their space that the Shivans were using?

I don't think that the Knossos can completely seal a node that it has stabilized, but I imagine it could easily be retrofitted (means of doing so aside) to destroy any ships that came out of the Node.  That would suck.

Shivan- "Coming out of subspace... now, Captain"

Shivan Captain- "Where is that glow coming from?  Navigator?  Navigator?!"

*Turns around, sees empty space*

SC- "Oh, %^&$"

[Fade Rathnik]

Originally posted by Boomer


It's an interesting thought.  If it can stabilize, it should be able to destabilize too.  But if it could destabilize a jump node, why didn't the Ancients just seal all the entrances to their space that the Shivans were using?
 

Maybe they did, maybe they got jumped thru the back door in ross 128 like when the shivans jumped the GTA/PVN in FS1.

Another thought does anybody remember in the begining of FS1 you couldn't target the shivans. They also popped up in more then one system with in hours to days of each other. Tacticaly this means that they moved in to many systems from where ever there entrance was before they attacked in force. Likely the first encounters with the shivans were earier then they had planned and befor they had their fleet set up for their attack(sanitization) plan. Who knows what system the Luci fleet actualy jumped in from.

Perhaps the Ancients sealed the portal off just minutes or seconds to late. Long enough for the Shivans to send in their most effective weapon the Luci, who gets sealed off in our neck of the woods so after smashing these last systems of the anchients the Luci went on tour, only after building a small fleet from the raw remains of the Ancients last systems.

Note in the Ancients monolog something was said,"we could forgo one system, but still they came for us" or some such. The Ancients would have known if they just left the system they would be at least subject to recons and skermishing likely they would have done what the GTVA did and seal off the system. Esspecialy with enough working knowledge of subspace to even stablize a node in the first place. Odds are if you know how to build something you know how to destroy it. And they would have figured another race wouldn't stabilize a node just to get them. Only the shivans did keep coming so maybe the knossos is for holding a node shut and then reopening when it might be safe or to check whats up on the other side.

Point is the Ancients could have unwittingly cut shivan space into many pieces.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by High Max
Actually, it wouldn't have mattered if they turned it off, moved it, or turned it off and blew it up because the node would have already been stablized, thus if you turned it off, Shivan ships would still come through. Plus, Shivan ships can travel through weak and unstable nodes. Meaning, they can travel through collapsed nodes. They just chose not to for some reason.

I was speaking from commands point of view. I know that turning off the Knossos wouldn't have made a difference but Command obviously didn't know that or they would have realised that blowing up the Knossos was a huge waste of time.

[FireCrack]

Weak != to colapsed.


It is my belif that if ever a terran/vasudan knossos was built it would include built in meson bombs with a self destruct feature to destabilise the node.

[Deepstar]

Originally posted by High Max
I think the larger Shivan ships are capable of traveling through collapsed nodes or making inter-system jumps without using nodes. But for some reason, they use these methods of travel very rarely. Maybe it is because using these methods might somehow harm the fabric of subspace and the Shivans protect subspace. Some even believe that they come from subspace.

Also, I wish someone would've made a campaign in which we go beyond Knossos 3. Kind of ironic that it's been almost 6 years since FS2 has been released and not one person to this date has made a campaign that involved going beyond the Knossos in the binary system.

Wait for the english Version of  Revenge - Final Conflict, it's from 2001 and there you come to the Knossos 3 System.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by High Max
I think the larger Shivan ships are capable of traveling through collapsed nodes or making inter-system jumps without using nodes. But for some reason, they use these methods of travel very rarely. Maybe it is because using these methods might somehow harm the fabric of subspace and the Shivans protect subspace. Some even believe that they come from subspace.

I don't think there is any evidence for that.

 In fact Petrach says that most of the GTVA scientists catagorically state that they can't and that  although they can use unstable nodes they are unable to even use collapsed nodes let alone travel without them.

[Fade Rathnik]

Thats what is stated more or less in addition the most thats inferred is that the shivans can rebuild jump nodes. That could be a process very much like the Knossos and could take quite some time depending on how unstable the node is to begin with for all we can imagine. After all what is time to a hive mind.

[Prophet]

If an node is collapsed it ceases to exist. It is not there anymore. It's gone.
If it would still be there and could be used then the universe would be full of nodes. Since there are nodes forming and collapsing all the time, remember?

[Fade Rathnik]

Originally posted by Prophet
If it would still be there and could be used then the universe would be full of nodes. Since there are nodes forming and collapsing all the time, remember?

Yes however logic dictates that there are outside factors that come into play for jump nodes to even exist in the first place, Ie gravitational fields and the like. For instance most subspace drives on fighters and other small craft are limited to intrasystem travel, they require a strong gravitational field to function. Likely all a node is is where the gravitational field of a far off star and the home star intersect and interact in some fasion.

[Prophet]

Se there are conditions for the node to form again. But that doesn't mean there is a node. Let alone hole capable of supporting travel.

Another theory comes to mind: If sufficently advanced jump engines could act as a miniature knossos device only requiring the right conditions (mentioned above) to form intrasystem jump corridor that could barely allow a ship to pass trought...

But when we remember the relative fragility of a jump node and the size of the knossos, such a device could be either large, power hungry or unreliable. Or all of them. And finding the right conditions depends on how precise must the gravitational field be in order for a door to open.

[Boomer]

But when we remember the relative fragility of a jump node and the size of the knossos, such a device could be either large, power hungry or unreliable. Or all of them. And finding the right conditions depends on how precise must the gravitational field be in order for a door to open.

There is no precision to gravity at all.  All gravitational fields in the universe overlap and exclude each other.  Making a Node producing jumpdrive would be as simple as finding a way to make two particular gravitational fields interact.  In this way, you could jump anywhere that there was enough matter to make a viable gravitational field.

[psycho_fergo]

hmm...sa anyone just thought of getting something really hard...and stickin it in between the blades of the knossos...knda like a spanner in the works..

another thing is...remember what happens in space...how many of you adjust the rotation of your ship so you are looking at something "the right way up"....in space..there is no right way up since this is a gravity thing of an up and a down. you could simply make one of the parts of the knossos tip a bit from a nice kenetic cannon hit of some sort..and it should destroy the whole device by itslef.....technically the whole spinning is practically impossible in space....

another thing i would like to say is..notice when the peices seem to "implode" into the middle...none of the bits collide with each other...if your theorys are correct about centriturnal or whatever you said force..(i know what it is...and understand it..but forget the name and cant spell very well) and also the actually plane it is on....would this not result in a massive collision when they go into the centre...but somehow they all miss...

anyway..im a bit of an idiot i think im right in saying that though