Author Topic: Riots in Belfast  (Read 1782 times)

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Offline Grey Wolf

So... Why would you roll over the Republic of Ireland as well as Northern Ireland? Last time I checked they didn't have quite as many problems.
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Offline Grey Wolf

You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

 

Offline Martinus

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Quote
Originally posted by vyper
We send every tank division we have and roll over everything. Then turn it into the world's biggest beer garden. Or possibly a new Rangers training camp, just to make a point.

:p

[color=66ff00]Given the sectarian following of Celtic/Rangers that might not go down so well.

What point?
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Offline Roanoke

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Quote
Originally posted by Mongoose
As an outsider, I have to ask those of you more knowledgable about the situation:  are riots like these even remotely about religious issues anymore?  Or do they happen pretty much because both sides have been at odds for so long?



It dates back to a battle sometime in the 14th century IIRC. That's how ridiculous it is

 
Well, yeah, they still trumpet that alot. Ol' Willie Orange. Funny that seeing as he wasn't even British. Which I think makes it a religious thing more than anything.

But it is essentially the fact that James was Catholic, fled to Ireland after trying for the British throne, rallied a rag tag army which was scuppered by the professional British one. And all the Planters (i.e. forced English settlers in mainly Ulster) latched on to it. But in fairness it was really only resurected in 1910->14ish(?) when Home Rule for the entire island of Ireland was being considered by the British Parliament.

Correct me if I'm wrong; its been a while since I actually studied any of that.

I take it Vyper, that you see things from the other side?
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Oh and sorry, not trying to drive a point home, I forgot, but it was ressurected by the newly reinvigorated Orange Order.
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Offline vyper

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That in a heartbeat the British could settle it once and for all, and it's only our good grace that's stopped us from turning Northen Ireland into a wasteland for the past 60 years. Both sides are equally bad, and both sides need a spanking from the nanny.

[q]
Given the sectarian following of Celtic/Rangers that might not go down so well.[/q]

That's part of the psy-ops warfare. ;)
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Offline vyper

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[q]
I take it Vyper, that you see things from the other side?[/q]

I see things from the British mainland side. I don't care whose cause you're fighting for - the IRA blew up British civilians many times, and the loyalists blew each other / the republicans up (and thus British civilians) too.

You don't get to do that.
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Offline Martinus

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Originally posted by vyper
[q]
I take it Vyper, that you see things from the other side?[/q]

I see things from the British mainland side. I don't care whose cause you're fighting for - the IRA blew up British civilians many times, and the loyalists blew each other / the republicans up (and thus British civilians) too.

You don't get to do that.

[color=66ff00]I guess you're right.

I'll call all of my catholic friends and have them accept responsibility for the actions of a few people, you can plot the destruction of their homes soon after that.

Of course I'm pretty sure that sometime after they'll be expecting you to take responsibility for all of the horrific things that British people have done over here and Britan can be raised to the ground.

No room for leeway in extremeism afterall.
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Fair enough. You see things from the British side, I see things from the Republic side. Obviously I don't support republican violence; that, like unionist paramilitaries, is only going to keep the two communities at each others throats for generations. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anyone here from N.I. to say whether we're close so all we've got are opinions.

Obviously you feel an afilliation with fellow British citizens but how can you, at least in this instance, take the side of people who are attacking your own defense forces? People who have threatened in the past to take up arms against the British nation if the majority will of their nation (i.e. N.I.) is followed (and I freely admit its not the majority yet) for independence or reunification? And who currently seem to be doing so?

Lets face it; the creation of the country itself is an aboration. In 1923/4 county boundries for Down and Fermanagh were changed before the hand over to the free state to exclude catholic area's, thus making them Protestant majorities and a part of the new country. It shouldn't even exist!

And while I'll never agree with terrorism targetting civilian targets, it can be argued that without the horrific 70's campaign there wouldn't have been nearly so much effort put into forging the current peace process. Probably alot less barriers to demolish now because of it though.

Basically, from what I see there just seems to be an attitude or desire form a definate portion of the Protestant community that they want things to stay as they are, or as they were a few decades ago when they were an undisputed superior class, no matter that it made Catholics very much second class citizens.

But in fairness Vyper; if it's really you view to just roll in the tank divisions as a solution then I can't expect you to even consider any of that.
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Offline karajorma

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I think you've missed Vyper's point Rand. He was going for a solution tantamount to to flattening both sides and writing "Too Stupid To Live" in words that could be seen from space.

Excessive yes but at least its equally unfair to both sides :p
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Yeah that could well be the case. I tend to get focused on my own desire to rant on the issue.
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Offline Martinus

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Originally posted by Rand al'Thor
Yeah that could well be the case. I tend to get focused on my own desire to rant on the issue.

[color=66ff00]I'm from the north dude.

I tend not to talk too much about it though as I have friends 'on both sides of the community' (what a stupid term) who are affected. My friend Kate had to move home to Newry because of the trouble near her house on the Donegal road in Belfast. The loyalists effectively shut down Belfast, all shops were closed at 4pm and the motorway and railways were either subject to bomb scares or barricaded off.

No fun for those stuck in the middle.
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Offline vyper

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Originally posted by karajorma
I think you've missed Vyper's point Rand. He was going for a solution tantamount to to flattening both sides and writing "Too Stupid To Live" in words that could be seen from space.

Excessive yes but at least its equally unfair to both sides :p


kara has hit the nail on the head.

[q]Of course I'm pretty sure that sometime after they'll be expecting you to take responsibility for all of the horrific things that British people have done over here and Britan can be raised to the ground.[/q]

I don't want to get into semantics since as I said, kara just clarified my position - but... You're missing the fact that Ireland hasn't got the military capability for mass genocide/mass-destruction. We do. :arr:
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Offline Martinus

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Originally posted by vyper


kara has hit the nail on the head.

[q][color=66ff00]Of course I'm pretty sure that sometime after they'll be expecting you to take responsibility for all of the horrific things that British people have done over here and Britan can be raised to the ground.[/color][/q]

I don't want to get into semantics since as I said, kara just clarified my position - but... You're missing the fact that Ireland hasn't got the military capability for mass genocide/mass-destruction. We do. :arr:

[color=66ff00]That's just anti-semantic dude.

Anyhow I was just being facetious when talking about raising the mainland, it was more a point about seeing things from the other perspective.
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Offline vyper

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Again, the irony is missed. :p

Alright alright, I'll stop now.
"But you live, you learn.  Unless you die.  Then you're ****ed." - aldo14