[Sandwich]

Originally posted by Grey Wolf
And for that, we need a colony on the moon. At least a few hundred people.

...and for that, we need a space elevator.



Hmm, has anyone ever thought of building a Space Escalator instead??

[WMCoolmon]

When I was a kid, I once fell down an escalator (It was going up and I tried to go back or something.)

If we assume 300 mi to orbit, and a 45 degree angle, sqrt(300^2 + 300^2) = sqrt(90000 + 90000) = sqrt(180000) = 424.3 miles that you could fall down backwards on said space escalator.

Not to mention that at a rate of 5 m/h (usual escalator rate) it'd take you 84.9 hours to go up or down.

Yay math.

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by WMCoolmon
When I was a kid, I once fell down an escalator (It was going up and I tried to go back or something.)

If we assume 300 mi to orbit, and a 45 degree angle, sqrt(300^2 + 300^2) = sqrt(90000 + 90000) = sqrt(180000) = 424.3 miles that you could fall down backwards on said space escalator.

Not to mention that at a rate of 5 m/h (usual escalator rate) it'd take you 84.9 hours to go up or down.

Yay math.

So what? Instead of steps, it'd be hotel rooms that go up the escalator! Nothing to fall down, either.

[Grey Wolf]

Originally posted by Sandwich


...and for that, we need a space elevator.



Hmm, has anyone ever thought of building a Space Escalator instead??

Not if you build it right. Basically, we need to go back and try the whole Biosphere concept again. We need this colony to be self-sufficient. At most, a cargo load every year or so.

[Janos]

Originally posted by Grey Wolf
Not if you build it right. Basically, we need to go back and try the whole Biosphere concept again. We need this colony to be self-sufficient. At most, a cargo load every year or so.

One of the reasons behind the Moon base or orbital platforms is that sending rockets and whatever from their surface instead of Earth's is much, much cheaper. Self-sufficiency does not bode well with that idea ("OK Doc so how the are we going to construct this Saturn X rocket? I know out of CHIMPANZEE POO").

[aldo_14]

But they don't need to be building a rocket with internal resources to be considered self sufficient, they just need to be alive without needing weekly food / oxy supplies sent to them.

[Janos]

Originally posted by aldo_14
But they don't need to be building a rocket with internal resources to be considered self sufficient, they just need to be alive without needing weekly food / oxy supplies sent to them.

Yes, one could certainly minimize the need for food/basic necessities supplies, but if you're going to use the base as a hop-off point for long-range missions, then why bother to go for full self-sufficiency if you're going to visit every now and then in any case? It could even be cheaper to try to not make the base entirely self-sufficient. The need for manpower in that kind of installation would require any self-sustainable system to be pretty large (I think).

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Janos


Yes, one could certainly minimize the need for food/basic necessities supplies, but if you're going to use the base as a hop-off point for long-range missions, then why bother to go for full self-sufficiency if you're going to visit every now and then in any case? It could even be cheaper to try to not make the base entirely self-sufficient. The need for manpower in that kind of installation would require any self-sustainable system to be pretty large (I think).

Reduces the long term support costs.  If you're planning on having a base for a decade or so, I'd bet it's a lot cheaper in terms of simple transport if they can supply their own food, etc, over the long term.

 It also prevents against problems if for some reason the heavy-lift capacity gets buggered up, i.e. as with the shuttle justnow.  Also acts as a lift-off point for further development;  means you can use the saved lift capacity for, say, mining tools instead of more oxygen tanks or freeze-dried ice cream.

Um...actually, I don't think you'd have heavy manpower anyways.  I'd imagine it'd be primarily automated, particularly in terms of fabrication of stuff like rockets.  

This is, interestingly, a page on a plan formed in 1984 for a full scale moon base by 2005, and self-sufficient (including fabrication of tools) by 2018 or so; http://www.astronautix.com/craft/jsce1984.htm

[Grey Wolf]

Also, if you're going for long-range missions using the moon as a launch point, you're most likely going to establish some sort of presence. A self-sufficient moon base would be a perfect test case for that.