I'll fire off one last post anyway to address a few things that were said while I was sleeping.
One thing I do know though, is going after someone for redoing something when it's still a work in progress and even they aren't satisfied with it yet is foolish. Constructive criticism is what we need, not, "You changed it too much. It sucks!" ESPECIALLY when the modeller hasn't even completed the model yet and it is still subject to much change. So in a WIP picture, you don't like something. Whoop de doo. Either explain what it is about it that you don't like and how you think it could be improved upon, politely say you don't care for it this way but can't quite explain why, or STFU and wait to see what it looks like when the whole model comes together before you start pissing and moaning about it.
I find that thinking a bit bizarre myself. You want people to restrict criticism until a model is finished? That's the absolute WORST time to tell someone you don't agree with something. And it's also counter to common logic, because the precise reason a person posts WIP pics is to get feedback as it goes along. Or, at least I HOPE that's why such pics are being posted. If an artist is only posting stuff along the way just for the sake of praise and adoration I'm afraid they have a few insecurities that they should begin working to address. (And no, I am not saying that is the case with anyone).
If everyone were able to give feedback at that level of quality this would be a different matter, but frankly you just make me think that model feedback should be handled entirely internally.
Community members should not be faulted for their inability to properly communicate their ideas. And verbosity is not necessarily quality. Regarding the leviathan several posters have simply said the same thing VA said with just less words. Posts of such length also create the opposite problem of people ignoring them altogether. When reading the thread I skipped over it entirely and then only later came back to read it. That isn't to say that VA post isn't both helpful and informative but to dismiss other people's opinions because they don't match the same length or level of detail is a disservice.
Similarily, restricting a COMMUNITY project to the overseeing of an ELITE few would likewise be a disservice.
As I've stated above, I find that when a person does an HTL model it's about providing a service to the community, it's not a place to showcase personal artistic tastes. To my way of thinking there's an unspoken obligation to follow as close as possible to the original Volition vision. Not what you think their intent was, not what you think they would have done had they done it now, but what they did do with existing technology.
To take liberties with a design is to my mind to take advantage of the media vps in order to get your artistic vision to as wide as possible an audience as possible. And in that regard, it's self-serving not serving the needs of the community which is what the upgrade project should be about. If people want to showcase their creativity do so in a third party campaign with a new ship.
Angel believes that some of us, namely Hades, is taking too many liberties with V's original design. He then, using no uncertain terms states that taking such liberties is to take advantage of the mediaVP's and in tha regard is self-serving, which is uncalled for and wrong.
Now maybe he did not mean to make it a pointed statement. Which is fine, but he chose to then take the self-important stance and tell me to re-read his post, instead of just correcting himself.
I'm sorry RGA, I realize you're simply getting overly defensive but do NOT speak for me.
You need to understand that a discussions can be prompted by a model without being about that individual model. You also need to understand that reservations about a model can lead a discussion to address a larger phenomenon as a whole without specifically saying that any individual project is a symptom of that phenomenon.
Or in more simple terms,
Yes this discussion was born because of Hades Leviathan. Am I singling him out? No it's simply the first thing I saw.
And yes this discussion thereafter was taken by me into a broader direction, but at no time did I make an accusation about hades. I don't know his intent. Nor do I claim to. Perhaps my post was left open enough for people to mistakenly INFER that I was slamming hades but that was never the case. I simply recognize the fact that the FSU can serve as a vehicle for self-service rather than community-service and that there is the danger that someone may approach it in that way.
Some people seek approval because they don't approve of themselves. And contributing to a high profile project, whether a community based one or a very popular one is the best means to get the most approval. And furthermore, the more artistic license someone takes with any given project, the more that approval specifically targets them. So in that way, a community project can be a vehicle for self-service. Am I talking about you or any one person? No.
But I work, professionally as an artist. In television animation to be precise. And I've seen people put their own "artistic touch" on a scene that was neither mandated by the show, nor was it in support of the show's story. In fact, such work often detracted from the show as a whole both because it was a needless distraction from the main action and also because it took unecessary time and effort which consequently took away from that artist's other work.
So believe me, when I say that I understand some artists use high profile projects for self-serving reasons and that 'artistic license' may lead them to lose the original vision. And again, I am not accusing, nor do I believe that any one person is doing this. I'm barely familiar with anyone's work, let alone any one artist so I don't even have the grounds to make such an accusation.
And by the way, incidentally I looked at Hades' medusa and it looked great as far as I could tell. I didn't make a direct side by side comparison for example but the fact that I didn't means it probably captured the same feel.
Artists OFFER to the community to spend their own free time into making models and textures. That gives them the absolute and unswerving right to express artistic license in their work, as it is the right all artists deserve. Anyone trying to deny them this fundamental right should be shot on sight.
Yes and as a community project that impacts all, the community has the right to voice their opinion about any such artistic endeavour.
However, I will note that the artists are pulling the weight and doing the work. And you know what? I think that gives them more of a say. But that's just me (Not FSU).
People contribute to the community in all manner of ways and their inability to contribute in a specific field should not invalidate nor lessen their opinion in that field. At most it gives them less technical grounding to address the specifics.
