Author Topic: Bitcoin  (Read 20453 times)

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Offline Ghostavo

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Damnit, the NSFL warning goes BEFORE the link, not afterwards...

:shaking: :eek2: :(
"Closing the Box" - a campaign in the making :nervous:

Shrike is a dirty dirty admin, he's the destroyer of souls... oh god, let it be glue...

 

Offline Flak

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Gamers are feeling the bad effects from this. It bump up the price of Radeon cards, some by $100.

 

Offline An4ximandros

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I have seen worse things from crash documentaries. That is nothing.

I have not had much of an opinion on Bitcoin, other than it felt too... unsafe to invest on. Seems I was right.

 

Offline Flak

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Not many people here are aware of bitcoin mining, or interested at all though it already caught the attention of the central bank. On the other hand, the price of the hardware right here in Indonesia is not affected much. It gives me idea sometime, maybe I should buy some local brand R9 280X for IDR 3.8 million (around $360) and sell it on ebay for $400.

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Given that the value of bitcoin has had a rather sharp drop (again)

such correction

wow


good thing I now hold all my assets in dogecoins
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 
Gamers are feeling the bad effects from this. It bump up the price of Radeon cards, some by $100.

Yeah, online vendors are suddenly selling AMD's top three models at a much higher price then AMD themselves recommend. AMD is not happy about this situation at all, as they lose a significant edge over NVIDIA when it comes to the high end segment.

Hopefully the situation will have piped down next summer 0_o.

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Given that the value of bitcoin has had a rather sharp drop (again), Charlie Stross wrote an opinion piece about it, which I completely agree with.

Quote from: Charlie Stross
Like all currency systems, Bitcoin comes with an implicit political agenda attached. Decisions we take about how to manage money, taxation, and the economy have consequences: by its consequences you may judge a finance system. Our current global system is pretty crap, but I submit that Bitcoin is worst.

...

Libertarians love it because it pushes the same buttons as their gold fetish and it doesn't look like a "Fiat currency". You can visualize it as some kind of scarce precious data resource, sort of a digital equivalent of gold. Nation-states don't control the supply of it, so it promises to bypass central banks.

...

It's also inherently damaging to the fabric of civil society. You think our wonderful investment bankers aren't paying their fair share of taxes? Bitcoin is pretty much designed for tax evasion. Moreover, The Gini coefficient of the Bitcoin economy is ghastly, and getting worse, to an extent that makes a sub-Saharan African kleptocracy look like a socialist utopia, and the "if this goes on" linear extrapolations imply that BtC will badly damage stable governance, not to mention redistributive taxation systems and social security/pension nets if its value continues to soar (as it seems designed to do due to its deflationary properties).

To editorialize briefly, BitCoin looks like it was designed as a weapon intended to damage central banking and money issuing banks, with a Libertarian political agenda in mind—to damage states ability to collect tax and monitor their citizens financial transactions. Which is fine if you're a Libertarian, but I tend to take the stance that Libertarianism is like Leninism: a fascinating, internally consistent political theory with some good underlying points that, regrettably, makes prescriptions about how to run human society that can only work if we replace real messy human beings with frictionless spherical humanoids of uniform density (because it relies on simplifying assumptions about human behaviour which are unfortunately wrong).

TL:DR; the current banking industry and late-period capitalism may suck, but replacing it with Bitcoin would be like swapping out a hangnail for Fournier's gangrene. (NSFL danger: do not click that link)

I dont think his tax evasion concerns are ultimately a very good point. Bitcoin could indeed threaten present income/sales tax systems that rely on perfect knowledge about citizen's transactions if it spreads, but things like land value or property tax would be unaffected by it. If push comes to shove, government will cancel income/sales tax and ramp up those alternative taxes that dont need to take into account your personal transactions or currency you use. Its not true that Bitcoin economy would be inherently untaxable. It just requires different tax approaches than a present fiat economy.

Even with BTC, there is ultimately not much you can do to protect your wealth from government taxation because it has monopoly on force in the area you live in. Worst case scenario: Government takes some of the things you buy with your "untaxable" BTCs and sells them back to obtain currency.

I have read Accelerando from Stross, and I am pretty surprised such transhumanist is hostile towards the idea of cryptocurrencies.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 
He says in the article that he has nothing against cryptocurrencies, just Bitcoin and its political underpinnings.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline 666maslo666

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He says in the article that he has nothing against cryptocurrencies, just Bitcoin and its political underpinnings.

I dont think there can be a cryptocurrency that does not share the problems for the present tax system he talks about (pseudonymity is an intergal part of the cryptocurrency concept), so criticism of Bitcoin in that issue is criticism of the cryptocurrencies in general. Its true though that cryptocurrency does not have to be deflationary, that part of his criticism is true and can be fixed by some Bitcoin successor cryptocurrency (indeed, there is already MemoryCoin running which has eternal 1% annual inflation).
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 

Offline The E

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I dont think his tax evasion concerns are ultimately a very good point. Bitcoin could indeed threaten present income/sales tax systems that rely on perfect knowledge about citizen's transactions if it spreads, but things like land value or property tax would be unaffected by it. If push comes to shove, government will cancel income/sales tax and ramp up those alternative taxes that dont need to take into account your personal transactions or currency you use. Its not true that Bitcoin economy would be inherently untaxable. It just requires different tax approaches than a present fiat economy.

That's true, but it's also irrelevant: Tracking property is infinitely harder than tracking income, any government that tries to finance itself by property taxes alone would have to be massively more intrusive about it than what we are used to. That is not likely to go over well with the populace, I imagine.

Quote
I have read Accelerando from Stross, and I am pretty surprised such transhumanist is hostile towards the idea of cryptocurrencies.

You haven't read anything by him since, have you? He has pretty much sworn off the singularitarian mindset in recent years.

Also, as PH said, it's not the concept of Cryptocurrencies that he attacks, it's the specific implementation called Bitcoin that he sees as problematic.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline 666maslo666

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You haven't read anything by him since, have you? He has pretty much sworn off the singularitarian mindset in recent years.

Yes, I have read nothing from him since he released Accelerando. Didnt know that.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 

Offline Flipside

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Must admit, when I first heard of Bitcoin, the concept kind of reminded me of the SETI program I used to run in the background on my old computer years ago, which crunched data in the computers spare time to help find alien life. The weird bit is, even then I felt I had more chance of finding alien life with SETI than actually making a meaningful profit from Bitcoin.

 

Offline Ulala

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good thing I now hold all my assets in dogecoins

How does one pronounce "dogecoin"?
I am a revolutionary.

 

Offline redsniper

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First part "doge"
Second part "coin"
"Think about nice things not unhappy things.
The future makes happy, if you make it yourself.
No war; think about happy things."   -WouterSmitssm

Hard Light Productions:
"...this conversation is pointlessly confrontational."

 

Offline Nuke

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is there a corgi on the coin?
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 
a shiba inu, but yes.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

  

Offline Nuke

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il wait for kitty coin thank you.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN