Author Topic: OT - Make your own Bush Speech  (Read 10982 times)

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Offline Top Gun

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OT - Make your own Bush Speech
Well, what are you waiting for - http://www.lemonbovril.co.uk/bushspeech/

 

Offline Bobboau

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OT - Make your own Bush Speech
please tell me you don't realy beleve that bull **** in that opening thing
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Offline CP5670

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OT - Make your own Bush Speech
bah, are these the demonstrations going on today? Those guys are really a bunch of jokers... :p

Besides, I see no reason in not going for Iraq; it will just be one more hostile nation out of the way. :D

 

Offline Sandwich

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OT - Make your own Bush Speech
ROFL - that's a good one there. :) My bro's favorite was a simple one: "The United States" and "Booooo". :D ;)
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"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Su-tehp

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OT - Make your own Bush Speech
Lol! that speechmaking thing is a laugh riot! :lol:

As for Bush and his wanting to make war on Iraq, well, I supported him three weeks ago, now I don't. The more I look at this, the more I'm convinced that war on Iraq would compromise the war on terror.

Hmm... let's see, if we go to war with Iraq, saddam will launch his Scuds at Isreal again, this time loaded with chemical and biological weapons. If that happens, Isreal WILL respond and we (the USA) won't be able to stop Israel like we did during the Gulf War. If Israel responds, it could be with nukes.

If we go to war with Iraq, Saddam will pull his troops into the cities and NOT leave them out in the open in the desert like he did last time. Room-to-room urban warfare in Bagdad? That's going to entail a LOT of American casualties. Urban warfare is every attacking general's nightmare. some of you might know about the Warsaw ghetto uprising during World War II. 200 Polish Jew civilians armed with only a couple dozen pistols and lots of Molotov cocktails managed to hold off 3,000 crack German troops armed with machine guns, tanks and flamethrowers for almost six whole months. And that was just in one section of Warsaw!

Urban warfare in Bagdad would mean 200,000 American troops trying to pacify a city of 5 million Iraqis, all of whom would be inclined to fight us, even though they hate Saddam.

If we go to war with Iraq, we'll incense millions of Muslims, a lot of whom will be pissed off enough to join Osama bin laden and fuel his recruiting drive for holy war for years to come. Most of our Muslim "allies" will be forced to withdraw their support for the US war on terror or risk being overthrown by Muslim militants. If the situation gets bad enough, Pakistan could be taken over by Muslim militants. If that happens, Pakistan's nukes could fall into Osama bin Laden's hands or the hands of many like him.

All this for what? Because Dubya is so pissed that he wants to finish what his daddy started? :rolleyes:

Saddam is a bad guy and a tyrant who deserves to be overthrown, but he can wait. Osama bin Laden and Al Queda are the more immediate threat.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2002, 01:24:17 pm by 387 »
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Offline CP5670

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OT - Make your own Bush Speech
Quote
Hmm... let's see, if we go to war with Iraq, saddam will launch his Scuds at Isreal again, this time loaded with chemical and biological weapons. If that happens, Isreal WILL respond and we (the USA) won't be able to stop Israel like we did during the Gulf War. If Israel responds, it could be with nukes.


But that will be exactly what we want this time. :D (Israel has been wanting an excuse to go after some of the neighboring nations for a while anyway)

I say it is a good idea to deal with Pakistan as well, but the US has enough strength and regional allies to take on both nations without any trouble.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2002, 01:31:11 pm by 296 »

 

Offline Neo

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OT - Make your own Bush Speech
:eek:

 

Offline RandomTiger

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OT - Make your own Bush Speech
!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Offline Sandwich

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OT - Make your own Bush Speech
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670

But that will be exactly what we want this time. :D (Israel has been wanting an excuse to go after some of the neighboring nations for a while anyway)


Is that what we're portrayed as in the western media? War-thirsty warlords who would nuke all our neighbours at the blink of an eye? :doubt: Seems to me that that's the exact situation our neighbours are in concerning us - they are looking for an excuse to wipe us out.  :(
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"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Su-tehp

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OT - Make your own Bush Speech
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp
Hmm... let's see, if we go to war with Iraq, saddam will launch his Scuds at Isreal again, this time loaded with chemical and biological weapons. If that happens, Isreal WILL respond and we (the USA) won't be able to stop Israel like we did during the Gulf War. If Israel responds, it could be with nukes.


Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
But that will be exactly what we want this time. :D


Excuse me? Did you say we want Israel to drop the Bomb on Iraq and start a war that will engulf the entire Middle East? If Israel drops the Big One on Iraq, do you know how quickly Syria, Jordan and Egypt will mobilize their troops to attack Israel? Jesus, CP, you can't seriously be suggesting that we want this kind of war that could threaten Israel's very existence!

Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
I say it is a good idea to deal with Pakistan as well, but the US has enough strength and regional allies to take on both nations without any trouble.


That's very debatable, CP. As it is right now, wth the war in Afganistan still not completely concluded (Taliban are sneaking back in and hiding among the Afgan populace) and with other US military deployments around the world, our forces are stretched REALLY thin right now.

But even if our forces weren't stretched thin, mounting an attack on Pakistan now would be counter-productive while Musharraf is still in power (he's a nominal ally). And if miltants do take over, why would the US commit such a grave error as to attack a country armed with nukes? Even Bush isn't that stupid! So how can you logically say that we can take on Iraq AND Pakistan?
REPUBLICANO FACTIO DELENDA EST

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"Let my people handle this, we're trained professionals. Well, we're semi-trained, quasi-professionals, at any rate." --Roy Greenhilt,
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--Su-tehp, while posting on the DatDB internal forum

"The meaning of life is that in the end you always get screwed."
--The Catch 42 Expression, The Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Steadfast

 

Offline CP5670

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Quote
Excuse me? Did you say we want Israel to drop the Bomb on Iraq and start a war that will engulf the entire Middle East? If Israel drops the Big One on Iraq, do you know how quickly Syria, Jordan and Egypt will mobilize their troops to attack Israel? Jesus, CP, you can't seriously be suggesting that we want this kind of war that could threaten Israel's very existence!


Actually, it would not threaten their existence at all simply because the imbalance of power is so great there (compare Israel's military to that of the surrounding forces), and the nation would probably recieve significant support from the US. Besides, most Israelis want to fight against their neighboring countries anyway and settle this issue one and for all; the only reason they have not done so yet is this ridiculous pressure of world opinion, so all they need now is some excuse to keep the EU quiet.

Quote
That's very debatable, CP. As it is right now, wth the war in Afganistan still not completely concluded (Taliban are sneaking back in and hiding among the Afgan populace) and with other US military deployments around the world, our forces are stretched REALLY thin right now.


Yes, but no amount of extra military forces there is going to change that anyway; there is little we can do there anyway aside from heavy propaganda (which we really need to go heavy on), but that involves different resources. Our forces may be thinned out, but the thing is that we don't need that many to fight due to the difference in technology; it is what makes all the difference here. (it can just be a repeat of 1991, where they sit back in their ships and launch cruise missiles hundreds of miles away :D)

Quote
But even if our forces weren't stretched thin, mounting an attack on Pakistan now would be counter-productive while Musharraf is still in power (he's a nominal ally). And if miltants do take over, why would the US commit such a grave error as to attack a country armed with nukes? Even Bush isn't that stupid! So how can you logically say that we can take on Iraq AND Pakistan?


Well you see, we don't need to actually commit a lot of our men to this. The Indians have long wanted to overrun Pakistan and the only reason they have not done so already is the same reason as with Israel: world pressure. If the US simply gives the go-ahead, I have no doubt that would just go with it. Of course, it will be a good idea to send in commando teams to disable the nukes first, but that should be easier than most think considering that Musharraf's life depends on US support, so it should not be too hard to get the information of their locations from him. (if he is given a choice between his own survival and the survvial of his administration, he will probably go for the former)

Besides, Musharraf is sort of a two-sided guy. Since maybe 50% of these terrorist operations in the world are being conducted from Pakistan with the full support of the government, and this is where the remnants of Al Qaeda now are, it makes sense to go after them. Pakistan has been useful to us in the past, but now they are simply posing yet another threat.

Quote
Is that what we're portrayed as in the western media? War-thirsty warlords who would nuke all our neighbours at the blink of an eye?  Seems to me that that's the exact situation our neighbours are in concerning us - they are looking for an excuse to wipe us out.


Exactly, so you must wipe them out (their regimes, that is) before they wipe you out; the history of conflict and the cultural inertia there has long since grown too large for any peaceful conclusion. It is now a matter of survival of the fittest.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2002, 02:10:56 pm by 296 »

 

Offline Blue Lion

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OT - Make your own Bush Speech
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich


Is that what we're portrayed as in the western media? War-thirsty warlords who would nuke all our neighbours at the blink of an eye? :doubt: Seems to me that that's the exact situation our neighbours are in concerning us - they are looking for an excuse to wipe us out.  :(


Almost sounds like an American talking.

 
OT - Make your own Bush Speech
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp

As for Bush and his wanting to make war on Iraq, well, I supported him three weeks ago, now I don't. The more I look at this, the more I'm convinced that war on Iraq would compromise the war on terror.

Hmm... let's see, if we go to war with Iraq, saddam will launch his Scuds at Isreal again, this time loaded with chemical and biological weapons. If that happens, Isreal WILL respond and we (the USA) won't be able to stop Israel like we did during the Gulf War. If Israel responds, it could be with nukes.

If we go to war with Iraq, Saddam will pull his troops into the cities and NOT leave them out in the open in the desert like he did last time. Room-to-room urban warfare in Bagdad? That's going to entail a LOT of American casualties. Urban warfare is every attacking general's nightmare. some of you might know about the Warsaw ghetto uprising during World War II. 200 Polish Jew civilians armed with only a couple dozen pistols and lots of Molotov cocktails managed to hold off 3,000 crack German troops armed with machine guns, tanks and flamethrowers for almost six whole months. And that was just in one section of Warsaw!

Urban warfare in Bagdad would mean 200,000 American troops trying to pacify a city of 5 million Iraqis, all of whom would be inclined to fight us, even though they hate Saddam.

If we go to war with Iraq, we'll incense millions of Muslims, a lot of whom will be pissed off enough to join Osama bin laden and fuel his recruiting drive for holy war for years to come. Most of our Muslim "allies" will be forced to withdraw their support for the US war on terror or risk being overthrown by Muslim militants. If the situation gets bad enough, Pakistan could be taken over by Muslim militants. If that happens, Pakistan's nukes could fall into Osama bin Laden's hands or the hands of many like him.

All this for what? Because Dubya is so pissed that he wants to finish what his daddy started? :rolleyes:

Saddam is a bad guy and a tyrant who deserves to be overthrown, but he can wait. Osama bin Laden and Al Queda are the more immediate threat.


In short: if we go to war on Iraq, it will tripple the chances for a final global conflict, one that no-one will win, a war that no-one will survive...



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Offline CP5670

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OT - Make your own Bush Speech
Someone always survives a conflict; the chances of everybody being wiped out are too low for practical purposes. :D

Sorry, but you simply cannot solve everything by "peaceful" methods.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2002, 02:13:54 pm by 296 »

 

Offline RandomTiger

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I think as long as everything is done properly through the UN it should be OK.

I find most of what CP5670 has said either insane or total crap.

 

Offline CP5670

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Peace is what is insane and total crap; as I remarked earlier here, the western world has become way, way too soft and think that everything can be done through "peace." :p :D

 

Offline RandomTiger

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OT - Make your own Bush Speech
For someone who likes maths so much your sense of logic seems to be a sad state.

 

Offline Bobboau

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OT - Make your own Bush Speech
and Isrial would totaly beat everyone's asses down in a major way, if anyone atacked them
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Offline Sandwich

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OT - Make your own Bush Speech
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Originally posted by Blue Lion


Almost sounds like an American talking.


Not sure I see why exactly you wrote that, but I am American... :confused:
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"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Top Gun

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OT - Make your own Bush Speech
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
bah, are these the demonstrations going on today? Those guys are really a bunch of jokers... :p

Besides, I see no reason in not going for Iraq; it will just be one more hostile nation out of the way. :D


You seem deluded into actually thinking that what's good for the US as a country is good for its people. If you happen to be a multi billionaire then the use of the word "we" when talking about the US government is wholely justified, otherwise your misguided loyalty to that plutocratic gang of morons makes me laugh. Although the consequenses of an Iraqi war could be disasterous for the US government's diplomatic relations, in which case support for it is wholly justified.