[TrashMan]

It would be nice to have something like a custom battle mode - you have a certain amount of points available for fighters/bombers and capships (seperated funds). You select your fleet, the enemy his and start the fighting!

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by KARMA

i agree with you aldo, a stand alone game would be great, the point is that dedicated servers may be very necessary and as far as i know none checked if dedicated servers have been ripped with pxo stuff
on the other side mods doesn't seem to work with regular fs2exe on tcp/ip, and none knows if they works with dedicated servers

Well. my primary aim / idea is a sort of mod pack of ships and missions specially designed for multiplayer 'deathmathc' stylee games... directly influenced by stuff like Quake 3  and UT.  which could then be expanded as more work is done, or new ideas occur, or as the SC changes.  Y' know, baby steps first

But, I'm  95% sure that multiplayer can be done with norm FS2 on dedicated servers with mods - I think the babylon project does it, in particular.  

What I imagine is sort of a blend between Descent and FS2.... ships of all types and designs... both 'battlebug' type things (my favourite at the mo, actually) better suited to internal dogfights (I have ideas for internal 'arenas'), or more conventional fighter designs, or whatever.  The idea being that, to make a dedicated FS2-type mod, you need to know a very particular style of design and texturing.  But for this, people can have real freedom to work in the way they find best, which should prove an attraction.  I hope.

I'm pretty sure, too that variables can be preserved inbetween missions.  I remember it being mentioned for a Star Trek mod.. which kept a running total of the ships 'assimilated' between missions.  I think.

EDIT; I now DEFINATELY think using the fs2_open is a good idea, seeing as I've been told it's only the PXO multiplayer stuff that was removed.

[Anaz]

I don't think that the in-mission swapping would be too hard, but I haven't delved too far into the source code. I would love to make a few models for this, and not just player ships either...

[untouchable]

Sounds like a pretty good idea

You can count me in!

[RandomTiger]

Originally posted by aldo_14

What I'd really love to do at some point would be to make essentially a standalone' game' - i.e. brand new interface, et al so no FS2 data is required - as a freeware release and try and convince the odd Pc mag to carry it on a demo disk.  But that is literally just a dream at the moment, and I'm not sure it's even allowed under the licensing agreement.

We, the fs2_open coders are looking into how to get our exe working with the demo data. Then people who dont have the game could download it and it could be legally changed and distributed. Not an easy task, but its something many people want for different reasons so it might well happen.

[EdrickV]

Originally posted by RandomTiger


We, the fs2_open coders are looking into how to get our exe working with the demo data. Then people who dont have the game could download it and it could be legally changed and distributed. Not an easy task, but its something many people want for different reasons so it might well happen.

Yeah, not easy at all because from comments in the source code it looks like the demo code may have gotten forked off of the main source tree so there are changes between the two that are not marked as demo things. Apparently the source code couldn't build the 1.1 demo without changes even before the Interplay/PXO stuff was removed. So far the biggest difference I know of is a minor fix, but there may be others that aren't easy to diagnose or repair. It depends on just how much the code changed.

[Stunaep]

Originally posted by aldo_14

What I'd really love to do at some point would be to make essentially a standalone' game' - i.e. brand new interface, et al so no FS2 data is required - as a freeware release and try and convince the odd Pc mag to carry it on a demo disk.  But that is literally just a dream at the moment, and I'm not sure it's even allowed under the licensing agreement.

The Licence agreement sais, you are allowed to distribute it, unless you try to make profit, as I recall Sandwich saying at some point.

[aldo_14]

Some wipshots of something I was doing for this....pretty high poly (1028 in 3 subobjects) and the mesh still has to be optimized a bit.

[KARMA]

aldo i'll surely do a couple of fighters, i already have the (cool i think) ideas, but swmod has the precedence (its a bit that i'm not working at it, for some reason or another), so i think that it will take at least a couple of months to do what i'm thinking about, and as my mates knows i do just limited pof editing

except for this lemme share some more ideas:

from starwars games and 3d shooters we can learn something important: often the "success" depends on the way weapons (and units) are balanced... i make an example from starwars.. there are some variables that determine the capacities of fighters:
shield/no shield, live points, top speed, maneuvrability, turning range (the "size" of the circle done while turning), rate of fire, firepower, size of the ship
the point is that the sw fighters are extremely characterized in each of these variables, and the combination of those variables change the way you have to pilot (i can spend hours explaining the specifics of each fighters and the meaning of the variables for your flying style)
in quake3 you have weapons like railguns or rocket launchers and so long, in tribes your armor determine your role, as so  in counterstrike does your weapon (assault, sniper..)
nice models are surely important but balancing the game stats will be even more important

another point: we won't have "maps" like in a 3d shooter, nebulas backgrounds and asteroids will be useful, but we can also make melees with battleground delimited by capital ships firing at any fighters reaching the edges, space stations and maybe again capital ships firing at fighters in the middle of the battleground, and so long, and those elements may be set (and maybe designed/modelled) specifically to create strategic situations to deal with and will change from deatmach melees to team melees
I was thinking (about the "internal" melees) for example at a space station with a big "cave" area (the "internal"), this area is  inside cave cilinders that rotates, if you put holes on these cilinders it will be like doors opening and closing, some will remain open very long, some others very short, depending on rotation speed and lenght of the holes, now put that base between the respawn areas of two teams and here is a nice team melee:), we could also put mines or turrets or capital ships on the edges of the base to make the path very difficult if you want to bypass the inside area
we could for example set this situation like a mission instead of a melee: in the team respawn area there is a ship to destroy or to dock with or whatever, and the two areas are separated by this station, you may also try sneak attacks following the external path, the one with mines/turrets/capships....
there are really a lot of very nice multiplayer situations that can be done...why don't we ask a new forum where to share those ideas?

last consideration: to increase game playability we should make as many lods as possible

oh and very nice models btw;)

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by KARMA
aldo i'll surely do a couple of fighters, i already have the (cool i think) ideas, but swmod has the precedence (its a bit that i'm not working at it, for some reason or another), so i think that it will take at least a couple of months to do what i'm thinking about, and as my mates knows i do just limited pof editing

Originally posted by KARMA

except for this lemme share some more ideas:

from starwars games and 3d shooters we can learn something important: often the "success" depends on the way weapons (and units) are balanced... i make an example from starwars.. there are some variables that determine the capacities of fighters:
shield/no shield, live points, top speed, maneuvrability, turning range (the "size" of the circle done while turning), rate of fire, firepower, size of the ship
the point is that the sw fighters are extremely characterized in each of these variables, and the combination of those variables change the way you have to pilot (i can spend hours explaining the specifics of each fighters and the meaning of the variables for your flying style)
in quake3 you have weapons like railguns or rocket launchers and so long, in tribes your armor determine your role, as so  in counterstrike does your weapon (assault, sniper..)
nice models are surely important but balancing the game stats will be even more important

I absolutely agree... balancing will be critical, as will ensuring ships are varied enough that people can select one that suits them.

Have you looked at the link I posted a page or so ago?  It sort of summarises a possible way of ensuring all ships are evenly matched, yet can have advantages... it is just a WIP though, as I'm not a natural with equations.

(here;
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/reciprocity/aldostuff/stuff.htm )

Originally posted by KARMA

another point: we won't have "maps" like in a 3d shooter, nebulas backgrounds and asteroids will be useful, but we can also make melees with battleground delimited by capital ships firing at any fighters reaching the edges, space stations and maybe again capital ships firing at fighters in the middle of the battleground, and so long, and those elements may be set (and maybe designed/modelled) specifically to create strategic situations to deal with and will change from deatmach melees to team melees
I was thinking (about the "internal" melees) for example at a space station with a big "cave" area (the "internal"), this area is  inside cave cilinders that rotates, if you put holes on these cilinders it will be like doors opening and closing, some will remain open very long, some others very short, depending on rotation speed and lenght of the holes, now put that base between the respawn areas of two teams and here is a nice team melee:), we could also put mines or turrets or capital ships on the edges of the base to make the path very difficult if you want to bypass the inside area
we could for example set this situation like a mission instead of a melee: in the team respawn area there is a ship to destroy or to dock with or whatever, and the two areas are separated by this station, you may also try sneak attacks following the external path, the one with mines/turrets/capships....
there are really a lot of very nice multiplayer situations that can be done...why don't we ask a new forum where to share those ideas?

I agree with everything you're saying...I've already tried to model a simple 'arena'.  Fully internal Descent-style levels are possible, but I think what you're suggesting sounds better IMO... I sort of fancy the idea of having a few levels where you can fly into the hollowed out shells of capships and fighter there ... certianly there is a LOT you can do to spice it up... I think this is a concept never attempted before, which is why it interests me.

As for a forum... I'll ask someone about hosting if it looks like we're going to get enough people.  The Squadwar forum could be used in the meantime, maybe... - I'll ask one of the Admin about it.  

The main problem is that i already have a pretty heavy workload, and I'm a wee bit concerned whether I'd be able to manage both this, Reciprocity and also working on the various other things I've said I'll do.... but I'm VERY enthusiastic about this idea, regardless - I'd just like to find someone who is willing to handle the project too.  Hoepfully we can get enough people to contribute, so that no-one finds themselves overburdened.

Originally posted by KARMA

last consideration: to increase game playability we should make as many lods as possible

oh and very nice models btw;)

Yup.  I'd say - IMO - have a poly limit of about 1000 for LODed models, and about 300 if people can't LOD (although I'd really rather everything be well LODed)... and have, for example, more LODs for higher poly ships;

i.e.
LOD1; 50-100polys
LOD2; 100-200
LOD3; 200-350
LOD4; 350-500 (equiv of normal FS2 ships)
LOD5; 500-700
LOD6; 700-850
LOD7; 850-1000

Or soforth.... I figure the average number of ships will be relatively low, hence the lesser number of polys... also having VERY tight detial distances will help.  (NB:  I'm thinking 2-4 in a straight deathmatch, as there is 4 teams, and maybe teams of 3 for T Vs T).  I suppose a bit of research into how to try and reduce the internet lag will be required... i.e. seeing if any graphical factors can be optimised.  Hopefully some optimisation can be done on the SC, but I wouldn't hold my breath (possibly the last priority for the SC team)

[Ryx]

Here's a pic of mine.


I've never done a fighter beyond the modeling bit. Then there's thrusters and stuff..... ahh well.

I should have, what 3 LODS?

[Nico]

indoor levels, i can do w/o much pb ( did some tests for my old descent project ).
An important thing, I think, is to make everything go much faster ( think the difference between, say, medal of honor and quake3 ). this way it will be more fun, coz face it, when you're behind someone else, your target is doomed, in FS2.

[Petrarch of the VBB]

That's it, take my idea for the Worldcraft project and twist and pervert it to your own ends.

[aldo_14]

Rightyho, then....I gave Shrike a Pm, and he has no objection to using the SW forum for a few discussions on this (seeing as it is the multiplayer forum).  So from here on, I'd like it if you only posted to say you'd be willing to assist (i.e. make a model or weapon), or give a general opinion.

[Nico]

well, i'll help then ( when I can ).

[Ryx]

Should I update here or in of the threads in SW forum?

My texture creation skillz are fairly bad, but I think, this i progress regardless.

I may have gone over the top a bit with the lines, though.

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by Ryx
I may have gone over the top a bit with the lines, though.

Then give it to Venom, he can deal with OTT stuff.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Ryx


Should I update here or in of the threads in SW forum?

My texture creation skillz are fairly bad, but I think, this i progress regardless.

I may have gone over the top a bit with the lines, though.

a/ methinks the SW 'ships' topic

b/  Might want to decrease to opacity of those lines a teeny bit, or add a bit of shading to darken the plates around them.  Looks neat sofar, though.

In case anyone cares or it's of use, I always start off by dividing the template into coloured sections, then apply shading to each section (trying to mimic shadowing as it would be on the model), then about 30-40% opacity black lines for plating, then go round them with a reduced opacity white line  (trying to make it look like recessed seams), then start applying light shading to the actual plater ares.

Takes a while to get to grips with the various shadoiwuing effects, though... I tend to use multiple opacitys and types of 'burn' for it, and try and use small brushheads for the fine 'streaks'.

[Ryx]

Originally posted by aldo_14


a/ methinks the SW 'ships' topic

b/  Might want to decrease to opacity of those lines a teeny bit, or add a bit of shading to darken the plates around them.  Looks neat sofar, though.

In case anyone cares or it's of use, I always start off by dividing the template into coloured sections, then apply shading to each section (trying to mimic shadowing as it would be on the model), then about 30-40% opacity black lines for plating, then go round them with a reduced opacity white line  (trying to make it look like recessed seams), then start applying light shading to the actual plater ares.

Takes a while to get to grips with the various shadoiwuing effects, though... I tend to use multiple opacitys and types of 'burn' for it, and try and use small brushheads for the fine 'streaks'.

Will look into this.

Originally posted by Sandwich


Then give it to Venom, he can deal with OTT stuff.

[Nico]

Originally posted by Sandwich


Then give it to Venom, he can deal with OTT stuff.

one can dream
I'll make my own ship, and that'll be about all for now ( I already know how it'll look like, this time I can go crazy mwhahahaha! )