[heretic]

http://www.eve-online.com/


I need to get a new PC.



oh, and broadband users, watch this:

http://download6.filefront.com/7b57817654f7c34025d1d3e2ceaf02b7/ve3d/EVE_Online_behind_the_scenes_hq.wmv

[mikhael]

Didn't already have a thread about this Yet-Another-Massively-Multiplayer-Dungheap? sure, the graphics are pretty, but that does save it from the failings of Massively Multiplayer crap.

[Fineus]

What exactly are the failings of MM stuff? Having lived with a 56K so long I've kinda shut out the whole online side of stuff... but it's still good to know why something is crap.

[Thor]

1) you pay per month it's usually $9.99 US (so it would be about, oh $423526235727.03 Canadian)

2) You still have to pay $70 freakin bucks for it!!!!  If I'm paying by the month, I should get the dam game for free.

3) It only works only line.  Well, what about a singleplayer game?  Heck, even UT has somesort of single player.

4)  Its just an elaborate sceame to get your money.

[RandomTiger]

Sounds like a great game, I've been following its progress for a while but its not really going to replace freespace, not for me anyway.

[NeoHunter]

Originally posted by Thor
1) you pay per month it's usually $9.99 US (so it would be about, oh $423526235727.03 Canadian)

2) You still have to pay $70 freakin bucks for it!!!!  If I'm paying by the month, I should get the dam game for free.

3) It only works only line.  Well, what about a singleplayer game?  Heck, even UT has somesort of single player.

4)  Its just an elaborate sceame to get your money.

1.) What do you expect? That's the only way they can earn some decent cash.

2.) Same answer as number 1 above.

3.) It wouldn't be called MMPORPG if you could play single player, now wouldn't it?

4.) This one... hmm....I thought everybody was doing that?

[Stryke 9]

Meh. Pretty, but that sure as hell ain't the actual game, unless it's frame-based rather than 3D. For a MM with res like that, you'd need everyone to be playing on a T1 line with dual CPUs, and that'd just be a minimum requirement. Get serious.

[diamondgeezer]

Well, by the time our 512k line has been split between the four of us (with each of us downloading from Kazaa like's it's going out of fashion), there's bugger all bandwith left for surfing or gaming.

Sometimes I long for the speediness of  56k dial up...

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Thunder
What exactly are the failings of MM stuff? Having lived with a 56K so long I've kinda shut out the whole online side of stuff... but it's still good to know why something is crap.

Everything Thor said, Thunder (oh there's an ironic juxtaposition of nicks) and some other things:

1. When you have thousands of players in a game, how do you make stories that focus on the characters, without being shallow? In Freespace, the game focuses on you. Your contribution is signifigant. Thousands of players can't be Alpha1 at the same time.

2. (this applies to MMORPGs) Thousands of players, 50 townsfolk and billions and billions of enemies that always come back and quests that reset.

3. People suck. Way too many people out there with the intent of having fun by ruining your fun. You can have a dozen fun people to play with, but one asshole overshadows all of them.

4. Server lag trumps connection speed. No matter how low my latency to the server, several thousand players lagging the SERVER negates my fast connection speed.


The most important reasons for me are by far lack of real story/development and other people being assholes.

[Kamikaze]

Ah yes Eve online, there was a thread about it here or on the VBB about it years ago when it was waaaaaaaaaaaaay before alpha - now it's in beta.

[Stryke 9]

Actually, mik's got the major things. People are generally dicks anyway on multiplayer games, but it doesn't really hurt anything, at worst, it's a bit annoying- things like assholes who disconnect when they're clearly losing. In MM games, which generally rely heavily on alliances and a lot of cooperation, they can do much more damage. Aside from that, in many, the continuity of the thing, combined with the "experience" system which seems so popular, means that even if everyone else plays fair, some Cletus and half-dozen his redneck pals can bust in, prey on the newbies, rack up massive amounts of power, and basically kill everyone in sight. That's the sort of thing that ****ed up UT.

Never mind that they're usually buggy in the first place. Anyone remember Anarchy Online?

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
Meh. Pretty, but that sure as hell ain't the actual game, unless it's frame-based rather than 3D. For a MM with res like that, you'd need everyone to be playing on a T1 line with dual CPUs, and that'd just be a minimum requirement. Get serious.

Um... Stryke, they don't send the geometry down the pipe. You have the geometry locally, all they're sending down the pipe to you translation/transformation data. Even the translation/transformation data is predefined into convenient routines that can be easily chunked and shot down the pipe with minimal delay. You can crank the resolution, geometry detail, and texture resolution as high as you want and IT DOESN'T TOUCH YOUR CONNECTION SPEED. It lags your local processor/graphics card.

What good does dual CPUs get you unless the game is written for symmetric multiprocessing? NONE. It runs on one processor.

Criminy, at least know what you're talking about before you *****.

[Stryke 9]

[shrugs]

Maybe, maybe not. I know that in many games I play, at least, there most certainly IS a good deal of such information getting transmitted, and that it DOES **** up the connection if there's too much. I haven't regularly played any games that DON'T run this way, in fact.

I suppose, in this case, that it'd make sense to do that, but it's by no means the only way it's done, and I reccomend YOU figure out what you're talking about before you go crawl up peoples' asses for having a different experience with multiplayer games.

And NO. Just flat-out no. I've got a largish collection of games here, and EVERY ONE does better under my dual-CPU system, even though it has less memory than the other one.

[Stryke 9]

Hmmm... Come to think of it, I might do this just to get a crack at taking apart their model files... some good ****, there.

[diamondgeezer]

A dollar says Sandwich is the admin that locks this one

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
[shrugs]

Maybe, maybe not. I know that in many games I play, at least, there most certainly IS a good deal of such information getting transmitted, and that it DOES **** up the connection if there's too much. I haven't regularly played any games that DON'T run this way, in fact.
 

Have you considered its your machine, not your connection?

I don't know of a single game that sends you a new copy of an object mesh because the object changed its facing, or changed speed. In fact, I suspect that if you go into Freespace2's source and look it sends positional updates for in game objects, kinda like EQ, AC, AO, Quake, UT, Starlancer and I-War2 do. But hey, what do I know?

And you're going to call anyone out for crawling up someone's ass on a flimsy excuse? Isn't that your entire modus operandi?

[Stryke 9]

It is, but I make no secret about it, and I only ***** people out when they set out intentionally to piss me off, or act like hypocrites, in which case they don't get half of what they ****ing deserve.

Or if I want something, and that's the quickest way to get it. At any rate, I always have a good reason, which you never seem to.

No, it's the exact same ****ing connection. I've got a networked DSL, and if anything the dual-CPU'd be SLOWER without the second CPU 'cos half of the software's corrupted, making the graphics card... no longer work properly. Most games now, they support multiple processors, 'cos lots of people have them.

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
It is, but I make no secret about it, and I only ***** people out when they set out intentionally to piss me off, or act like hypocrites, in which case they don't get half of what they ****ing deserve.
 

And that excuses you? I think not.

As for the rest, your problem is your machine, not scene information coming from the game server.

Most games DO NOT support SMP. Very few do. I can think of probably four, and I'm only sure of one of those (Q3). For that matter, most people still don't run SMP enabled OPERATING SYSTEMS, regardless of what the games support.

[Galemp]

Please, the language, guys. Think before you post.

Meh, this thread is getting 0wnt anyway...

[mikhael]

Originally posted by GalacticEmperor
Please, the language, guys. Think before you post.

Meh, this thread is getting 0wnt anyway...

There's something wrong with "criminy"? I think that's the strongest word I've used so far.

[edit]
nope. I did say that a-word in there
[/edit]