[diamondgeezer]

We've got a random christian cult near us. Christian cults are very weird and scary.

[Su-tehp]

I picked "other" as I like to call God "the One Above."

But I think Bri_Dog and Warlock have it right: what could the Creator need with a name? He/She/It just is.

---------------------------

Scene: Heaven near the Dawn of Time. Enter God the Almighty at stage left. God approaches audience.

God: Let's see, I've just spent six days, or 20 billion years, depending on who's counting, creating the Universe, but something seems to be missing... What could it be?

God wanders around the stage, pacing.

God (suddenly): I got it! I forgot to name myself! How wierd is that? I create the whole Universe from super-galactic star clusters all the way down to subatomic particles and beyond and everything in between, down to the smallest detail, but I forget to give myself a Name. (suddenly embarrassed)Boy, is my face red!

Enter Moses, dressed in Old Testament attire.

Moses: My Lord, you could always call yourself "YHWH." That sounds like a good name. Most people would even have trouble spelling it because it doesn't even have any vowels. You could even make it, like, your own personal secret-decoder type name!

God: That sounds like a really great idea, Moses! A secret-decoder type name would make me sound more mysterious and mystical-like and stuff.

Enter Jesus Christ, dressed in 1st Century Judean clothes.

Jesus Christ: Naw, my Lord, you should call yourself "Jehovah." It sounds really poetic and flows from the tongue real easy.

God (sounding less certain): I do like poetry... Jehovah does sound nice...

Enter Mohammed, dressed in 6th Century Arabian clothes.

Mohammed: I think "Allah" would be a good name for you, my Lord. It's short, it's simple and to the point and if anyone else doesn't like it, can always take them hostage in your name.

God (doubtfully): Isn't that a little excessive, Mohammed?

Mohammed (with sincere fervor): For you, my Lord, nothing is excessive.

God (shrugging): Well, since I'm looking for worship and devotion, I guess I can't look a gift horse in the mouth.

Enter the FS Community, a disparate, raggedy-looking band of nerdish gaming geeks. At the head of the crowd is Stealth, a pot-bellied, beer-swigging dude with beady eyes and a bemused, yet endearingly bewildered expression perpetually on his face.

Stealth (turning to rest of FS crowd): So, dudes, I've got, like, this question to ask y'all: do you think God has a name?

Quiet murmuring emanates from FS crowd for a minute or so. Then Bri_Dog and Warlock, two strapping young bucks in the prime of their gaming lives, step forward.

Bri_Dog: Nah, what use would God have for a name?

Warlock: I agree. He created the Universe, therefore he's unique and doesn't need a name.

Su-tehp, a young, handsome and virile law student in the prime of his life steps forward out of the FS Community crowd.

Su-tehp: Guys, if God really exists, something that has not been proved with any sort of certainty, mind you, then God could call himself He wants. Besides, it's not like we're ever gonna meet the guy, right?

Murmurings of "He's right" and "Damn, Su has a good point" begin emanating from the FS crowd.

God and the three Prophets (Moses, Jesus Christ and Mohammed) become aghast at this lack of faith. God turns to his Prophets.

God: What the hell are you all doing standing around? Those geeks are losing faith in me! Do something!

Mohammed steps forward and faces the FS crowd.

Mohammed: You must all bow down before the will of Allah! If you do not, I will fight a jihad against you infidels!

The FS crowd is oblivious to Mohammed’s rantings. CP5670, carrying a bunch of computer printout papers, steps forward.

CP5670: Guys, you should all take a look at this. I just managed to mathematically prove that God doesn’t exist.

God: He did what?

Su-tehp: Dude, CP, no ****, you mathematically proved that God doesn’t exist?

CP5670: Yeah, Su, have a look. (CP5670 hands the papers to Su-tehp.)

Su-tehp: Well, I’m no mathematician, but this does look good to me. Guys, here, have a look at this. (Su-tehp begins passing out the papers to the rest of the FS crowd.)

God (beginning to fade from sight): This is intolerable! (shoves the bewildered Mohammed out of the way and grabs Moses by the arm) Moses, I think I see a Jew in that crowd. Talk to him and help him to make the others see reason!

Moses steps forward and approaches Sandwich, an Israeli soldier wearing combat fatigues.

Moses: Shalom, little one. YHWH has sent me to tell you that you must try to restore your friends’ faith in the Almighty.

Sandwich (turning to face Moses): I know you. You’re Moses. I read about you in school.

Moses: Yes, my son, I am Moses. Will you help me?

Sandwich (with disdain): Oh, please. These people are my friends and most them aren’t Jewish. I’m not going to help you forcibly convert them. After everything I’ve seen in Judea and Samaria recently, I’m no longer certain that YHWH still cares for the Jewish Nation. The whole history of our people has been one ****-kicking after another lasting five thousand years. We finally got our homeland back after more than three thousand years and people still want to wipe us from the face of the Earth. If you really wanna help me, how’s about knocking off a bunch of Palestinian terrorists so more of our people don’t get killed in suicide bombings?

Moses, defeated, walks back to God.

Moses: I’m sorry, YHWH. The man has a point. There’s nothing I can do.

God (fading even further from view): Jesus Christ, you’re my last hope. Help Me before I fade away entirely!

Jesus Christ begins desperately scanning the crowd of FS gamers, most of whom have seen CP5670’s printout disproving God’s existence. With each person reading the printout, God fades away a bit more. Finally, Jesus Christ approaches one of the gamers in the crowd.

Jesus Christ (nearly in hysterics): Shivan Archon, you’re a Republican, aren’t you? You have to help me restore your friends’ faith in God! There’s no time to waste!

Shivan Archon: I’m sorry, JC, that would cost me political capital. The Republican Party just got all three branches of the American government, so you can go to them for whatever you need. Besides, I just hang out with these guys just to play with their free FS mods. (shrugs) Sorry, dude, I can’t help you.

The printout at this point has now been read by the entire FS crowd. God has almost entirely faded from view.

God (in a small voice): Oh, dear. This could be slightly unpleasant.

God disappears in a small poof of smoke.

Enter Setekh, stage right.

Setekh: Hey, guys, what’s going on?

FS crowd (in unison): STEAK!

Sandwich: Dude, Steak, long time, no see, dude!

Su-tehp: Steak, WB, buddy! (grinning) Have you heard about my new campaign?

CP5670: Steak, you need to take a look at my printout! I just proved there’s no God.

Setekh: No ****?

Su-tehp: Yeah, Steak, we all looked at it and we all agreed it was legit. CP’s actually came up with a practical use for his mathematical talents!

FS crowd erupts in laughter.

Su-tehp: Guys, I got an idea. Now that Steak is back, how’s about I treat you all to a dinner at Outback? I’m buying!

FS crowd (in unison): SWEET!

The FS crowd begins milling out, stage right. In center of stage, Moses, Jesus Christ and Mohammed stare dejectedly at the spot where God last stood before he disappeared. Then they look at each other with forlorn expressions.

Fade to black.

[Grey Wolf]

You know Steak would start trying to convert you all to Christianity, right?

The *Poof!* God'd be back.

Anyway, I stil believe. I'm just horribly skeptical of Church bureaucracy.

[Sesquipedalian]

Regarding the name of the Judeo-Christian God:

The Hebrew language was originally written only in consonants, with vowels being understood (i.e. the Hebrew reader should know what vowels to use when pronouncing the word in the same way that an English reader should know which way to pronounce "ough" in cough or in through).  Vowel indicators were not added until very, very late, as the language was dying out and Jewish rabbis needed to do something to the texts so that readers would know how to read and pronounce them.

Why does that matter?  Well, the name God gives for Himself is YHWH (or JHVH if you are German).  There were no vowels originally written in the text, as said above.  Now, over time, the tradition developed in the Jewish community not to pronouce the name of God, but to substitute the word 'adonay, "lord", in its place.  This was done partially out of a sense of respect for God, and partially as a way of insisting upon monotheism (i.e. if there is only one God inexistence, why should we need to identify Him by name?).  As a result, by the time the vowel points were added to the Hebrew text, no one knew how to pronouce YHWH anymore.  In some places, the vowel points for 'adonay were used, in others the vowel points for elohim, "God" or "gods", and in others none at all were used.

As a result of all this, no one knows just how the name God gave for Himself was originally pronounced in Hebrew.  YHWH is all that can be said for certain anymore.

On a more theological note, rather than purely linguistic one, Yahweh is given as God's name primarily for its similarity to the Hebrew for "I am," as in (literally) "I am that I am," or (in English rather than Hebrew grammar) "I am that who is," which is what God says to Moses when he asks God for a name to give to the Israelites.  But this post is long already, so I won't draw out the implications of that now.

[Su-tehp]

Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
You know Steak would start trying to convert you all to Christianity, right?

The *Poof!* God'd be back.

Steak would be too busy chowing down n the filet mignpon I'd be buying him at Outback to try and convert us.

Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
Anyway, I stil believe. I'm just horribly skeptical of Church bureaucracy.

Amen! My mom was like that too. She was the best Catholic I ever knew, especially since she didn't bother with all the dogma crap. She was also pro gay rights and pro-choice, so you know Mom could never go for the whole "letting the Church control your thoughts" thing.

As for me, I'm an agnostic. The whole catholic thing just fell apart for me at age 12, more's the pity.

And what's what with all the priests getting freaky with the altar boys?

[Sesquipedalian]

Originally posted by Su-tehp
I picked "other" as I like to call God "the One Above."

But I think Bri_Dog and Warlock have it right: what could the Creator need with a name? He/She/It just is.

---------------------------

Scene: Heaven near the Dawn of Time. Enter God the Almighty at stage left. God approaches audience.
...
Fade to black.

I'm not sure Sandwich would be too happy with the words you put in his mouth, Su.

[Grey Wolf]

Originally posted by Su-tehp


Steak would be too busy chowing down n the filet mignpon I'd be buying him at Outback to try and convert us.

Amen! My mom was like that too. She was the best Catholic I ever knew, especially since she didn't bother with all the dogma crap. She was also pro gay rights and pro-choice, so you know Mom could never go for the whole "letting the Church control your thoughts" thing.

As for me, I'm an agnostic. The whole catholic thing just fell apart for me at age 12, more's the pity.

And what's what with all the priests getting freaky with the altar boys?

My skepticism is based upon my knowledge of the Church in the middle ages.

And about your point about the priests, it is a very rare occurence. They've had, what, a few hundred priests accused? From events over the last 50 years? That's a very small percentage. Actually, it should be about even with the percentage among the general population.

Also, a bit of a shot at the people being stupid, the only priest accused in my area of phedophilia was a Methodist

And for proof of the Setekh thing, don't make me drag out the Religion thread.....

[Su-tehp]

Originally posted by Sesquipedalian
I'm not sure Sandwich would be too happy with the words you put in his mouth, Su.

You're probably right. It's just a fictional story, but if Sandwich gets angry because of this, I'll apologize to him.

[Sesquipedalian]

Originally posted by Su-tehp


You're probably right. It's just a story, but if Sandwich gets angry because of this, I'll apologize to him.

Well, I doubt he'd get angry; he's too mature a Christian (yes, he is both Jewish and Christian).  But he probably would rather have seen some very different words put into his mouth.

[Su-tehp]

Originally posted by Sesquipedalian
Well, I doubt he'd get angry; he's too mature a Christian (yes, he is both Jewish and Christian).  But he probably would rather have seen some very different words put into his mouth.

Yah, this is true also, I think. When I wrote this, I admit my own biases about the 50 years war (I HATE the suicide bombings and everyone who approves of them) colored how I wrote that part of the story.

And truth be told, Sandwich has seen the aftermath of this stuff up close and personal, whereas I'm nice and safe 4,000 miles away and I only see it on television. Was it presumptuous of me to write that stuff? Maybe it was.

[Stealth]

i said keep it on-topic

if this goes OT or to a religion discussion, then it'll get closed, and you know that!

[Su-tehp]

Right, anyhoo, as I was saying: I don't think God particularly needs a name because he's unique. And who would he talk to that would need to call by name?

What could we call him? "Hey you"?

[Warlock]

Originally posted by Stealth
i said keep it on-topic if this goes OT or to a religion discussion, then it'll get closed, and you know that!

Ok how can you have a poll and discussion about the name of god and it NOT be a religious discussion ? ?

[Knight Templar]

El dios

Bob

The Sky Spirit

Big Poppa

Lord Almighty

Jehova

Father

Mr. Bonkers

Allah

Ymh or whatever

Garfield De La Staloski

..........

take your pick

[diamondgeezer]

Gonna have to be Mr Bonkers, innit?

Anyways,

The argument runs something like this:

"I refuse to prove I exist", says God "because proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing".

"Ah", says man, "but the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It proves you exist, and so therefore you dont. QED".

"Oh", says God, "I hadn't thought of that", and promptly dissapears in a puff of logic.

"Oh", says man, "that was easy", and goes on to prove that black is white, and gets killed on the next zebra crossing...

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by Su-tehp


Yah, this is true also, I think. When I wrote this, I admit my own biases about the 50 years war (I HATE the suicide bombings and everyone who approves of them) colored how I wrote that part of the story.

And truth be told, Sandwich has seen the aftermath of this stuff up close and personal, whereas I'm nice and safe 4,000 miles away and I only see it on television. Was it presumptuous of me to write that stuff? Maybe it was.

Heh - I couldn't resist replying here. (Su, we really need to hook up next week. And I'm 4,000 miles away just like you at the moment. )

Basically, I don't really have the time to reply to this properly, like I would if I was back home. But in a nutshell, God's name is YHVH, according to the Bible.

As far as my beliefs go, Sesq seems to have a pretty good grasp of things.

And as far as my outlook on Israel and the Jews' troubles and stuff like that... As a Christian, I fully expect to undergo persecution in the future, according to God's Word. But also according to God's Word, the Jews have been resotred to the land God has given to them as an inheritance - it's a direct fulfilment of prophecy, one which, if you are willing to accept the Bible as the Word of God, is quite exciting! I mean, who would have thought that I, Michael, would be a fulfilment of Biblical prophecy? It's awesome!

So yeah, that's my abridged 2 pence.

[Razor]

How dare you say that there is no God. God is real! Real I tell ya!

[Stryke 9]

I thought Yahweh was a non-translation of what God said when he was sidestepping giving a name, "I am that is" or something like that...

Personally, I think that'd be a good a name as any, were I an all-powerful deity hanging around with a bunch of guys starving in the desert, anyway...

[Su-tehp]

Sandwich, thanks for letting me off the hook, dude.

*breathes a huge sigh of relief*

Oh, BTW, I might be able to get to DC on Tuesday, rather than Wednesday, of next week, but I have to check to see if I can exchange the bus tickets tomorrow.

PM me to remind you to tell you what's up with my travel plans and also to give me your itenerary, if it needs to be updated.

See you soon, pal!

[Stryke 9]

Dude- you going to DC? I live maybe 20 minutes away, and that's beltway time...