[diamondgeezer]

Sorry to provoke another Iraq and/or America-bashing thread, but here goes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2571493.stm

[Unknown Target]

Well, what did you expect? I knew that from the start this was a no-win situation for Iraq. One of two things would happen:

1) Iraq admits nuclear weapons in that big document of theirs. Now, U.S. uses that as a reason to go after Iraq and kill it's leader.

2) Iraq says it doesn't have any weapons. The U.S. says it does, and who's the world going to believe? U.S. uses that reason as a reason to go after Iraq and kill it's leader.

[Tiara]

eh... I don't mean to bug you and all but its mainly about Iran not Iraq, denying that they will use the 2 powerplants for producing weapon grade plutonium.

[Bobboau]

I was realy hopeing we could have delt with Sadam before we had to take on Iran, crap,
now were going to have to go after both of them at the same time and we won't have a negbor hopeing to gain favor with us, and they'll unite against us,

now do you see why I was so quick to take out Iraq and didn't want to stand around and talk about it

[diamondgeezer]

I just thought you lieked making 'splosions... [glow=yellow]BOOM![/glow]

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Bobboau
I was realy hopeing we could have delt with Sadam before we had to take on Iran, crap,
now were going to have to go after both of them at the same time and we won't have a negbor hopeing to gain favor with us, and they'll unite against us,

now do you see why I was so quick to take out Iraq and didn't want to stand around and talk about it

Not to sound critical or anything, but how the hell would you be able to take out Iraq quickly, anyways?  IIRC the US plans call for a period of 5 years in which Iraq will be governed by a US military officer until a democratic system is established.

Besides which, there's **** all chance of Iraq and Iran uniting.  it's more likely they'd nuke each other.

[Fetty]

*cough*bush seems an equal if not great threat to me, after all who is sitting on most of the nukes and sayd hes willing to use em ? *cough*

[IceFire]

Originally posted by Fetty
*cough*bush seems an equal if not great threat to me, after all who is sitting on most of the nukes and sayd hes willing to use em ? *cough*

For all that I agree with that statement, I think we need to clarify something.  The nuclear option has always been one for the US...but they are pretty much resigned to using them in retaliation rather than as a pre-emptive thing.  Since WWII anyways...

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by Bobboau
I was realy hopeing we could have delt with Sadam before we had to take on Iran, crap,
now were going to have to go after both of them at the same time and we won't have a negbor hopeing to gain favor with us, and they'll unite against us,

now do you see why I was so quick to take out Iraq and didn't want to stand around and talk about it

Bah - just leave Iraq to us.

[vyper]

Originally posted by Sandwich


Bah - just leave Iraq to us.

No. Play nice and share.

Damnit lets just do it! I'm fed up talking!

#Rule Britannia....

[phreak]

i love saturday night live

U.N. Weapons Inspectors. Keeping the peace.. for at least a few more months.

[diamondgeezer]

OK... so I've never actually had myself or a friend shot/shot at/blown up/kidnapped/etc by the neighbouring country, but here's my two euros -

Originally posted by Sandwich
Bah - just leave Iraq to us.

Dude, look - one side is going to have to stop the killing. Instead of this revenge attitude, can't Israel just be the bigger man? Otherwise, when is it going to stop? No ammount of demolishing arabic homes to make way for Israeli settlers is going to stop the suicide bombings and the shootings of Israeli civilians. Is there a master plan behind these little raids into the Gaza strip, or is it actually just a case "he hurt me, but me an all my mates know where his house is..."

I realise I'm poking a sensitive situation here, but every time I see a post saying "here's an idea - let's bomb Iraq!", then sure enough there's Sandwich with the next post saying, "hurruh, bagsy I throw the first grenade!"

Of course I am not familiar with the full list of grievences held against the arab world and Iraq/Palestine/etc, as held by yourself and the Israeli population, and I probably deserve a ***** slap for my high-horse preaching here. It just saddens me - and by that I mean I physically let out sad sigh of frustration and sorrow when I read such posts - to see two neighbouring countries sniping at each other where the only motivation left is hatred and revenge.

By all means tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, and offer me a warm cup of shut the **** up, btw...

I will read the paper at some point within, say, seventy two hours, and see a Palestinian school boy shot dead by the IDF. The IDF will say sorry, but point out to the world media that last week the Palestinians blew up a cafe full of Israeli civilians, families even. The Palestinians will say that they did this because the IDF shot one of their local militia leaders. The IDF will say they did this because of a Palestinian suicide bomber. Palestine will say that this was done because an IDF tank demolished three Palestinian homes. Israel will... well, it goes on.

When you're fighting a war because you hate them (and they hate you because you hate them [and that's becuase they hate you ]) then there really is no point, as far as I can see.

Sandwich, we all know you're a intelligent, well-meaning person. You're an admin, which means that you posses judgement more sound than most of the HLP denizens. We all respect you for what we've learnt about you in the last year and a half. But when you're making jokes about going to war with Iraq as soon as Bush drops the hankie, I look at Israel and I wonder if you're joking at all... it scares me somewhat - you seem desperate to get out there and cap a few guys in tea-towels, pardon my blatant racism. It worries me that such a smart, normal-seeming guy can be carrying such a desire for violence around with him...

I wonder... if we had, say, an Iraqi or Palestinian member here at HLP - would you be dropping these "let's go bag us some feral Afganhis-type" commets?

I've been provoked in to saying all this rubbish becuase you, in yourself, represent the closest I have and (probably/hopefully) will come to the middle-east conflict. Your "bombing Iraq is A1-SUPAR!!!!1" comments bring the horrors I see on my TV to life, becuse now I know an actual genuine human bean™ that has experienced this stuff. I look at these young men and women on TV, so desperate to kill one another becuase of a thousand year-old feud or yesterday's bombing or *insert generic reason for attack here*, and I wonder at what drives them to such extraordinary measures. But then, there's Sandwich, who we all know and love (ahem ), and he's one of them to. And that scares me.

Right... well that's all over bar the IP banning

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Dude, look - one side is going to have to stop the killing. Instead of this revenge attitude, can't Israel just be the bigger man? Otherwise, when is it going to stop? No ammount of demolishing arabic homes to make way for Israeli settlers is going to stop the suicide bombings and the shootings of Israeli civilians. Is there a master plan behind these little raids into the Gaza strip, or is it actually just a case "he hurt me, but me an all my mates know where his house is..."

.....

Right... well that's all over bar the IP banning

First of all, what I meant by "Bah - just leave Iraq to us. " was just that - leave Iraq to us - nothing to do with the Palestinians, which you seem to have brought into the situation.

Second, it was s very roundabout way of poking "fun" at the big powerful US of A, who, after 10 years, are apparently going to war against the same dictatorial regieme because, simply enough, they didn't do the job right last time. And Israel has a record of doing the job right.

I doubt Israel will be left unscathed during this next apparent assault on Iraq, and barring incredible international pressure to sit on our hands and let them bombard us, we will respond if attacked and screw the latest god of "World Opinion".

Israel has just as much a greviance against terrorism as the US does. From that perspective, there's no real reason why the US should be allowed to attack Iraq and it be consideered war on terrorisim, while if we joined in it would be considered revenge? Never mind that our war on Palestinian terror is referred to as occuption, oppression, etc. You never hear that the homes we demolish are homes of suicide bombers' families, who live in wealth from the money they receve from the PA for the sacrifice of their son/brother/father (/mother/sister/daughter?) for the cause.

Oh, and IP banning? Bah - you're gonna have to do a lot worse than disagreeing with an admin for that.

[Grey Wolf]

Well, I feel it's time to bring in one of my friend's favorite quotes:

The CIA: Proudly overthrowing Fidel Castro since 1959

Anyway, here's my personal opinion:
The US has turned into a massive bureaucracy. And when it gets down to it, all bureaucracies eventually collapes. And I'm sure there are many people who will try to help it. I don't plan on being hit by a chemical weapon strike.
*flips coin to decide between Canada and Europe*

[Shrike]

Originally posted by Sandwich
Second, it was s very roundabout way of poking "fun" at the big powerful US of A, who, after 10 years, are apparently going to war against the same dictatorial regieme because, simply enough, they didn't do the job right last time. And Israel has a record of doing the job right.

You mean the same record that has seen hostility between Isreal and pretty much the rest of the middle east since Isreal was formed?  Even the Cold War didn't last that long.  The Isrealis have done well militarily, but the track record for the non-military actions is nowhere near as good.  Perhaps the US should have continued and steamrolled Baghdad.  But that wasn't due to lack of ability.  It was a political decision.

[Sesquipedalian]

Originally posted by Sandwich


I doubt Israel will be left unscathed during this next apparent assault on Iraq, and barring incredible international pressure to sit on our hands and let them bombard us, we will respond if attacked and screw the latest god of "World Opinion".

Israel has just as much a greviance against terrorism as the US does. From that perspective, there's no real reason why the US should be allowed to attack Iraq and it be consideered war on terrorisim, while if we joined in it would be considered revenge? Never mind that our war on Palestinian terror is referred to as occuption, oppression, etc. You never hear that the homes we demolish are homes of suicide bombers' families, who live in wealth from the money they receve from the PA for the sacrifice of their son/brother/father (/mother/sister/daughter?) for the cause.

That's a very powerful couple of points that Sandwich has there, DG.  Attacks on Israel are a much more immediate and looming threat than attacks on the USA, yet the perceptive framework says a war on terrorism conducted by the US is okay, and the same type of action by Israel, for more urgent reasons, is vengence.  And it is a very safe bet that any action in Iraq will be used an an excuse to attack Israel yet again.  Quite honestly, if Britian or the US or even my own peaceloving Canada were under the pressure that Israel is all the time, the war machine would have been cranked into full gear to crush the enemy years and years ago.  Israel has shown considerable restraint and prudence in its actions, IMHO.

As for the US attack on Iraq itself (nevermind Israel), I don't feel qualified to express an opinion.  If the idea is to bring down a dangerous and oppressive regime, covert actions might be more useful than a general war.  I can't help but wonder whether the USA's intentions are not predetermined, and just waiting for an excuse, but on the other hand, if there is much chance of someone like Saddam having weapons of mass destruction, taking them away seems like a very good idea to me.  In principle, general war is to be avoided, but there are also times when it is justified (WWII for example).

[Razor]

Originally posted by Sandwich



Oh, and IP banning? Bah - you're gonna have to do a lot worse than disagreeing with an admin for that.

I suppose that pointing out mistakes to admins is grounds for banning eh?

[Fetty]

Originally posted by Sandwich


Oh, and IP banning? Bah - you're gonna have to do a lot worse than disagreeing with an admin for that.

*pulls down sandwichs phants*
catch me if u can

but seriously
sandwich is right iraq has nothing to do with saddam
palestenians are a totaly diffrent matter
a matter where i wont comment on since i actualy dont want to write that much

[vyper]

#come cheer up my lads, hear's to glory we sail

[phreak]

haven't the syrians and jordanians killed far more palestinians than the israelis?