[Inquisitor]

I am still going round and round with the DivX people.

Short answer, they don;t want anyone having anything to do with video games using DivX.

Since RT's movie code (soon, I promise) is Media Player based, we're safe as a project, because we have done no DivX integration. However, individual mod authors would have ot seek a license. Still looking at that, I really think there is a fundamental disconnect the DivX people have with what we are doing, but, that's gonna take some finagling.

Anywho, I am working it. Use DivX in your projects at your own risk.

[Goober5000]

pbhh

Thanks, Inquisitor.

[Nico]

only easy legal choice would be intel indeo or radius cinepak then. I have no real pb with that, but it's bigger. I'm not wanna pay for OTT, nor take any risk.

[vyper]

This is a disaster I think. We're suddenly looking at much larger movie files sizes than before unless something as good as DivX pops up.

[ZylonBane]

Originally posted by Inquisitor
However, individual mod authors would have ot seek a license.

First, that would only be the case for commercial efforts.

Second, I doubt the creators of the codec-of-choice for pirating movies are overly concerned about some modders using it for their cutscenes.

Get real, people.

[Setekh]

That's quite true, and yet... what's the size difference like between DivX and our alternatives? Maybe I'll go do some hunting around for that.

[Inquisitor]

They were VERY specific Zylon, I pointed that out to the lady I was talking to.

ANY video game content requires a license.

Next stop is the VP of Sales, it's a silly enforcement of their IP, but, that's the case. She made it sound as though they were beginning to pursue people for it.

again, the SCP itself has no responsibility, we just (and haven't even released it) implemented a media player capable of playing nay format the end user has an installed codec for...

I think there is a huge failure to understand what was being requested.

Again, use at your own risk

[WMCoolmon]

Originally posted by ZylonBane
Second, I doubt the creators of the codec-of-choice for pirating movies are overly concerned about some modders using it for their cutscenes.

That's like saying Adobe won't mind if someone distributed free copies of an all-purpose CD cracking software to use with a freeware game, but also worked for Photoshop.

What's DivX supposed to do about pirates using their codec? They might not mind us using it much, but they can still make noises...

[ZylonBane]

Originally posted by WMCoolmon
That's like saying Adobe won't mind if someone distributed free copies of an all-purpose CD cracking software to use with a freeware game, but also worked for Photoshop.

Urm... that doesn't even come close to making sense.

What it IS like, is like saying that Adobe won't mind if you use PSDs to store your freeware game's graphics.

The Divx support page seems fairly clear on this point--

DivX video is free for personal use. So if you're an individual who wants to use DivX technology for your own personal use, rest assured that you may do so at no cost.

However, if you are a business, or you are an individual or group who wants to use DivX technology for commercial purposes, then you require a commercial use license.

Based on this, only the most quavering paranoiac would think it necessary to license Divx for our purposes.

[IncendiaryLemon]

I would argue no, it falls between.

 The scp is not a commercial effort but it can not be classified as one individual using Divx for its personal use.

 What they may consider is the rare number of mods which evolve into profitable commercial enterprises.

[WMCoolmon]

Originally posted by ZylonBane
Based on this, only the most quavering paranoiac would think it necessary to license Divx for our purposes.

The support page isn't going to take action against us for integrating code when DivX employees have stated not to. It could be said that only the end-users and the individual developers have the codec, and the codec itself is not a part of the project. If DivX has stated they don't want their codec used in games at all, though, it's entirely up to (their) interpretation whether the current code 'includes' DivX.

They don't have to raise much ruckus at all; if Gamespy hears that relations are strained between DivX and the FSSCP, they could demand that HLP cease providing hosting - or give HLP itself the boot. After all, if DivX is going to take legal action against somebody, it'll be either against Gamespy or THQ. I doubt the community is worth millions.

[Zarax]

Well people, we have two choices about using a video codec.
One can be X-vid (the new open source codec since divx isn't free anymore), but it's still in alpha stages and reliability is not good enough...
The other one is asking Microsoft to give us a free permission to use its Windows Media codecs, wich are as good as divx about video quality, and with much better audio than MP3.
Before arguing it's impossible, please remember they are launching their new format, and they need some publicity.
If we will say that we will put something in the program that states their help and we tell them that they will gain some popularity i think they can give us licensing, maybe with the condition of not spreading the source...

[Fury]

Originally posted by vyper
This is a disaster I think. We're suddenly looking at much larger movie files sizes than before unless something as good as DivX pops up.

...xvid...
http://www.xvid.org/
http://xvid.hopto.org/
http://www.roeder.goe.net/%7Ekoepi/

But because I have mentioned xvid so many fringgin' times it's not even funny, you have probably counted it out once and for all.

[Ryx]

If DivX is out, then, I think, XviD is the way to go.

[Darkage]

I agree with Ryx here, Xvid seems the way to go it looks as a promising codec.

[Darkage]

i made a small test anim. with the dvix 5.0.2 codec and the Xvid codec. The divix file size is 983kb and the xvid is 786kb in size. Both are the same animation. I think i like this codec.


Divx Version 5.0.02

Res: 648*480
Size: 983Kb


Xvid

Res: 640*480
Size:768Kb

[Black Wolf]

Originally posted by ZylonBane

The Divx support page seems fairly clear on this point--
Based on this, only the most quavering paranoiac would think it necessary to license Divx for our purposes.

Then the DivX people must be quavering paranoiacs.

When I was talking with them, they maintained their position that using DivX of any form in  a commercial game, even if the parts that included DivX were distributed freely on a commercial game requires a liscence.

An until we hear otherwise, it looks like XVid may be the way to go.

[Inquisitor]

They have classified ALL video games as commercial.

There is an indi filmmaker license that seems more appropriate, but, they have stated, repeatedly, and the licensing page doesn't contradict this, that ALL video game related production is covered under the commercial licensing, and that is a cash thing.

The SCP has little or nothing to worry about, we've not directly integrated DivX technology (technically, the only movie playing code we have is in DX8, and that spawns a media player instance for all intents and purposes), so, they can pursue Microsoft on that one. We'll just say "use another compression."

It's the mod authors that need to be concerned. I really think the right license for this is the Indie Film License, but that requires some more talking to DivX, and I may suggest that people pursue that themselves if I can get no where with it.

[ZylonBane]

Good grief.

Bear in mind that the commercial-licensing issues that apply to Divx, also apply to ALL commercial codecs... WMV, Indeo, CinePak, QuickTime... all of 'em.

The FS2 source was released with the specific restriction that no commercial products can be based on it. Therefore no FS2_open mods, no matter how wildly successful, can be considered commercial.

Worst-case, this is clearly an "it's better to beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission" situation. As already stated, the SCP is immune from prosecution since they're merely implementing a Media Player frontend. The mod authors are (in paranoid-land) the vulnerable ones, and since the mods are all non-commerical ventures, they have no assets at risk. The worst that can happen is a cease-and-desist letter, and time wasted recompressing the cutscenes into new codecs. But of course this won't happen since it's not commercial use of their codec.

Or, we could just all sit and wait for Ogg Theora to get finished.

[Setekh]

Originally posted by Mr. Fury


...xvid...
http://www.xvid.org/
http://xvid.hopto.org/
http://www.roeder.goe.net/%7Ekoepi/

But because I have mentioned xvid so many fringgin' times it's not even funny, you have probably counted it out once and for all.

·  Why should I use XviD?

Well, you don't need to at all. We the developers of XviD are just ordinary people, who happen to enjoy writing code for video compression, so we have no disadvantages (financial or any other) if you choose something else than XviD...

However there are good reasons why you could like to use XviD: We believe that XviD is the best currently available MPEG-4 video codec solution and additionally XviD is free software!

These guys are legends! And with Darkage's test... Say, Darkage, just to be sure, could you encode something else? Something that's vastly different in content?