Author Topic: Ai  (Read 5159 times)

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Offline TrashMan

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There is one thing I would REALLY like to see in FS2.

The AI for capital ships is too simple.

Example - I made a ship that can concetrate 80% of it's firepower to either of it's sides. However, the AI doesn't use this advantage! It charges head-on on the enemy, even tough he allready is in weapons range.

Now, for the AI to calc the field of fire for all weapons and use it is to ask too much.
But there could be two types of capital AI. One for the ships that have their firepower mainly forward, and one for those that have it on the sides. One could use the AI he wants for his ship depending in which group it fits.
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Offline Fury

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Use waypoints. Capital ships are not meant to engage enemies like fighters or bombers does.

Really, capital ships are usually bulky mammoths and are tearing enemy vessels down from range. They don't need direct attack orders, excpet on special cases.

TBP does have a few ships that are considered capital ships, but are really maneuverable and are like very large fighters, this is where gunship AI comes to play.

Is anyone working on gunship AI at the moment by the way?

 

Offline Fineus

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It would be nice to have some kind of "where is the greatest field of fire" command in the AI that looks at what weapons a ship has available to it, where these are concentrated to their greatest affect and therefore where the AI should position the ship to best engage a target. That said, it's an awful lot of work as far as I can see... and waypoints are useful....

 

Offline TrashMan

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It would really be a lot of work to make such an AI. It allso depends on the type of ship you are apllaying it to - a fighter would ignore all capital weapons, while a capship would only watch out for them.

And yes, waypoints are usefull, but both ships must follow them in order for it to work. I can assign my ship any waypoints I want, but if I don't do the same for the other one, I don't know how the other one will act, position itself. It requires far more testing that by just implementing the AI.
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Offline diamondgeezer

Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
It requires far more testing that by just implementing the AI.


I think perhaps you're looking at this upsidedown - AI is hard to tinker with, whilst extensive mission testing is a mandatory part of good FREDding :nod:

 

Offline CP5670

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I personally would really like to see some improved fighter AI more than any other major source mod idea, since I think that this is really the only glaring problem in FS2; the game is just about perfect in every other way. The capital ship AI isn't too bad as it at least does its job, but the close-combat dogfight AI is mediocre at best and causes your enemies to be very undereffective. The only way to solve this problem at the moment is to add in huge numbers of them and have them vastly outnumber the friendly forces, which is obviously unrealistic and implausible, but it is the only way to get the game difficulty right. :p

 

Offline LtNarol

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What I'd like to see is better collision detection more than anything else.  Checking weapon types isn't going to be too very diffifult in my opinion, such that if a capital is given attack orders, call a new function to the effect of check_weapon_type_flags to check if more weapons in each of the 6 directions are beams, flak, or lasers, and then have the ship move accordingly to present the opposition with the appropriate weapons.

 
Hmm - what we could do is modify the way capital ships behave on different skill levels. So like, a general class AI on a destroyer told to attack a corvette would see it initially split its beam firepower between shooting the vette's engines and weapons subsystems.

 

Offline diamondgeezer

Well, you said you liked fiddling with the AI, Uknown :nod:

 
Indeed I do. Every now and again I've been adding little modifications to the FS2 AI in between killing graphics bugs. Added one today that gives qa 25% chance of a ship going after a beam turret that attacked it, even if its on another ship.

 

Offline TrashMan

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A better AI would surely be one of the greatest improvements of FS2.

The fighter AI is poor, even at general level.
(Does the AI use power allocation?)

I agree with LtNarol on this one -it could be done and it should be done! But the ship could check it's own weapons to turn towards the enemy accordingly.

Personally, I think that colisions should do MASSIVE damage    
 (I know this has allmost nothing to do with the AI... - On second thought, it has - if you assign several capships to go to the same waypoint, they will consantly colide! This should be fixed)
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Offline diamondgeezer

Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
Does the AI use power allocation?


It certainly appears so - you may have noticed, in missions such as the first nebula patrol, that the AIs on you team will fly a little faster than you unless you allocate more engine energy :)

 

Offline Sesquipedalian

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Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
if you assign several capships to go to the same waypoint, they will consantly colide! This should be fixed
Fix:  don't do that.
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Offline CP5670

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Quote
It certainly appears so - you may have noticed, in missions such as the first nebula patrol, that the AIs on you team will fly a little faster than you unless you allocate more engine energy


I think they do use it at least when applying afterburners a lot (e.g. when traversing large distances), since their burners recharge much faster than normal in this case; the only way you can keep up is to allocate all energy to engines.

Quote
Fix: don't do that.


nice and simple. :D

Anyway, I think that the biggest problem with the fighter AI is its close-range dogfight capabiltiies, or lack thereof. They are actually pretty good at long range, firing a lot of shots with extreme accuracy, but when they get near you they just run circles around you (without even afterburners, simply cruising) without making any attempt to face and attack you or run away as long as you keep them in your ship's front view. If this is changed around, maybe by having them apply a quick afterburner boost to get away and then turn around again to fire, they would become far, far more effective. Also, they don't seem to use coutermeasures a whole lot, and when they do the CMs aren't accompanied by any evasive maneuvers from the fighters at all, so they usually do not work.

On an earlier note, there does seem to be one exception to the long range combat; the computers tend to fire missiles from long distances well before the missiles are in range (don't ask me how they acquire lock), which results in them exploding before they reach their targets.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2003, 03:11:03 pm by 296 »

 

Offline TrashMan

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You are right.

But when I wrote about waypoints and collisions, I ment that capships should try to avoid hitting eachother when passing close.
And collisions SHOULD do fargreater damage.
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Offline diamondgeezer

Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
On an earlier note, there does seem to be one exception to the long range combat; the computers tend to fire missiles from long distances well before the missiles are in range (don't ask me how they acquire lock), which results in them exploding before they reach their targets.


I shall remember this fact, and be grateful for it the next time a wing of Maras warps in and lets rip with double Hornet volleys :)

 

Offline LtNarol

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Perhaps a calculate collision damage by multiplying the total mass involved by the speed of the collision and then, say, dividing by 20 (or some other magic number, i have a feeling the masses are greater than what I'm taking into account).  This way, a slow 1m/s collision with a satelite doesn't kill you while 2 capital ships crashing head-on coming out subspace leave a nice field of debris.

Takers?

 

Offline diamondgeezer

Ideally, capital ship collision should be fairly fatal for the crashees unless they're designed for ramming. But the way the engine handles such things, it seems doubtful that we'll ever see any more than two ships bouncing off each other and taking damage to their hull integrities...

 

Offline LtNarol

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what if you kill the bounce?  You run into a capital ship with a collision speed greater than 5ms and you're a pancake, shouldn't be too hard... not the calculating collision damage part atleast

 

Offline TrashMan

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There MUST be a line in the code somewhere that handels collisions! If it's there, it can be changed and it SHOULD be changed.

I mean - c'mon, two 2km long masses of metal colide - we're talking SERIOUS damage (even if they are slow - the mass, the inertia - they are the real killers)
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