Poll

do you think we should, you know...

I am an american and I think we should
25 (26%)
I am american and I don't think we should
14 (14.6%)
I am american and don't care what hapens
4 (4.2%)
I am not american and I think we (you) should
11 (11.5%)
I am not american and I don't think we (you) should
32 (33.3%)
I am not american and I don't care what you do
7 (7.3%)
I am american living elsewhere and will do it myself if they don't!
3 (3.1%)

Total Members Voted: 94

Voting closed: March 12, 2003, 05:52:55 pm

Author Topic: Iraq?  (Read 147194 times)

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Offline Tiara

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Iraq - The Great Thread - all war news goes here
Quote
Originally posted by Warlock


Big difference between "mass bombings" and massive amounts of pression bombings ;)

You gotta keep in mind we're using weapons that are accurate to within feet of the target.


:doubt:

400 meter kill zone on most bombs... Its not 3000 super precision bombs you know. And the most nasty and biggest bomb is still to come. Not even the B-52's can drop that :p Needs a freighter plane.

Its just sick to bomb a city with 3000 bombs. Haven't you seen the footage? They've aired it here... The big ass explosions don't seem very nice for the surrounding area.
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Offline Warlock

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Iraq - The Great Thread - all war news goes here
and ?

It's war :rolleyes:

They're going out of their way to not harm civis ,... which isn't exactly something most attackers do during a war.

And yes I've been watching the footage all day, even the footage of Iraqis shaking hands with US troops and tearing down Saddam's posters.
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Offline Tiara

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Quote
Originally posted by Warlock
and ?

It's war :rolleyes:

They're going out of their way to not harm civis ,... which isn't exactly something most attackers do during a war.


Still, 3000 friggin' bombs is enough to level an entire ccountry if used right. To use it on one city isn't an attack. Its murdering innocents as its more then has to be used.

I know most of it is propaganda, but nothing warrants a bombing on this scale. This will have dire consequences. To name a few:

- Bin Laden and Co. (other terrorist groupings) will now have enough recruits to go and bomb the **** out US targets.
- As said before, Anti US movement will now only grow.
- Iran, next to Iraq, is now scared as they are too seen as "Evildoers" by the US. they too will begin to rally their military and Iran is a nation that has been pointed out to posses nukes.

Those are just a few consequences.
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Offline Turnsky

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Iraq - The Great Thread - all war news goes here
well, look at what carpet bombing did to berlin at the end of WWII, these days there'll be less 'collateral damage'  due to some of the more precision munitions the modern military have at their disposal. Mind you, even the most accurate wepon misses at one point or another.. still carpet bombing is more effective than ever 'cause of the larger payload b52's carrier over thier b17 ancestors.

Edit: all conflicts have forseen and unforseen consequences, it's just the nature of war unfortunately..
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Offline Shrike

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Iraq - The Great Thread - all war news goes here
Quote
Originally posted by Tiara
Still, 3000 friggin' bombs is enough to level an entire ccountry if used right. To use it on one city isn't an attack. Its murdering innocents as its more then has to be used.
Ha, maybe if you're using nukes.  But 3000 conventional bombs?  Pfft, a typical allied air raid in WWII dropped way more ordnance than that.  Hell, they had thousand bomber raids!  The US could flatten Baghdad if it wanted without the use of nukes.... are they?

[q]Bin Laden and Co. (other terrorist groupings) will now have enough recruits to go and bomb the **** out US targets.[/q]What, do you think they're going to get madder over there?  It's too early to start claiming all kinds of dire predictions for the future.
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Offline Warlock

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1: I've seen nothing saying 3000 bombs on Bagdad itself. They announced during the last Pentagon briefing that they were making multiple attacks across Iraq,...not just the one city. If you've got a link to something stating 3000 known bombs on one city please share it, I'd be interested in reading that.

2: Rumsfield make a point to tell reporters that we were not carpet bombing.
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Offline Tiara

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Quote
What, do you think they're going to get madder over there? It's too early to start claiming all kinds of dire predictions for the future.


If ya haven't seen the riots in Egypt and other mid east countries... They are friggin' pissed. I know I "might" be a bit premature, but still, there is a very good chance this will happen.

Also, Bin Laden & Co., will use this as an excuse to bring down the Statue of Liberty or sumthin' similar. And it doesn't matter if he has new recruits and stuff :p
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Offline Sandwich

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Iraq - The Great Thread - all war news goes here
Quote
Originally posted by Tiara

Also, Bin Laden & Co., will use this as an excuse to bring down the Statue of Liberty or sumthin' similar.


Good idea. In a way, I hope they do. Or even better, America should raise the bar on the freedom/french food fight, and return the Statue of Liberty to the French. "We don't want your idols symbolizing our nation, thank you very much!"

:lol:
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Offline Warlock

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LMAO!

Well you know they've still got troops in Afganastan hunting down any leads on Al-Qeda (sp) still. That pressure alone might postpone too much of a "Terrorsite Revenge" anytime soon. All depends on where the main group's relocated. But one thing is sure, a terrorist attack anytime soon would also just add that much more fuel and make things even worse (from a point of view, better from another I guess)
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Offline Stryke 9

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Iraq - The Great Thread - all war news goes here
I think you might be giving the organization level of terrorist cells too much credit. Yeah, the 9/11 bombings were pretty cautiously coordinated, but that was a very complex and very big attack. At this point if one guy set a pound of C4 off on the Brooklyn Bridge, New York would be shut down for a month.


Anyway, so far Bush is actually doing extremely well in the war. I have no doubts that the news is twisting things (such as the endless string of "representative Iraqis" in suits and ties who've lived in DC for 20 years going "yes boss, we likes it when you bombs us! Yessuh! Cos while it hurt on the outside, on the inside we be knowin' youse liberatin' us!"- and here I thought that maybe the country had grown up a little since the slavery era), but it seems he's honestly trying to and for the most part succeeding in keeping the civilian casualties and "collateral damage" to a minimum. I have my doubts that the ENTIRETY of East Baghdad is Evil Empire Goons, but we'll see what's what when the dust settles.

At any rate, he performed well in the Afghan operation, too. He understands it's bad publicity to kill too many civilians, the generals in the Pentagon appear very competent, and some of the new hardware works pretty impressively. It's after the shooting that he starts ****ing up tragically- once again, as in Afghanistan.

He's a good wartime president, but all in all I think he causes much more human misery when there isn't a war on. I can't wait to see which friendly Middle Eastern nations get mass uprisings because the government is going against the passionate wishes of 90% of the populace in sucking off Bush.

 

Offline Bobboau

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Iraq - The Great Thread - all war news goes here
Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Anyway, so far Bush is actually doing extremely well in the war.
...
At any rate, he performed well in the Afghan operation, too
...
He's a good wartime president
...


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Offline Stryke 9

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Yes. Of course. Because anyone who disagrees with you in any way must, logically, have such a diametrically opposed opinion on everything, no matter the situation or how demonstrably true it is, as to be certifiably insane. The sky is pink! Cancer is good for you! Electricity works by magic!

 

Offline Dan1

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Quote
Originally posted by Tiara

I know most of it is propaganda, but nothing warrants a bombing on this scale. This will have dire consequences. To name a few:

- Bin Laden and Co. (other terrorist groupings) will now have enough recruits to go and bomb the **** out US targets.
- As said before, Anti US movement will now only grow.
- Iran, next to Iraq, is now scared as they are too seen as "Evildoers" by the US. they too will begin to rally their military and Iran is a nation that has been pointed out to posses nukes.

Those are just a few consequences.




:wtf:

Yeah...see...umm....no..... maybe for NOW (by now i mean these next two weeks at most)  but anyone can see that once Iraq has been liberated it will be better for all.  (I think U just can't stand the thought that Bush gambled right and U wanted him to sooo be wrong...):ha:
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Offline Bobboau

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I was kidding, it was a joke!
people just don't appreciate my humor
:doubt:
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Offline Warlock

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Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
I was kidding, it was a joke!
people just don't appreciate my humor
:doubt:


Don't worry I had the same reaction reading his post ;)
Warlock



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Offline CP5670

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Iraq - The Great Thread - all war news goes here
Quote
please tell me how you can predict the future of the world. I'm dying to know.


I say that if I release an object in the air, it will fall. I just predicted the future there. :D

Anyway, as for my trains of reasoning on this issue, the average Iraqi man basically does not care a whole lot about politics and will go with whoever gives him and his family more money/food/etc. (this is how terrorist groups gain recruits; "die for us and your family will get x amount of money" ), and the Iraqi population has been for the most part suffering for the last decade under Hussein's policies and UN sanctions, so it will be rather easy for the US to get popular support especially with all those reconstruction plans. The US has a pretty good propaganda system and they can easily use it in Iraq to good effect. The surrounding Arab nations will of course turn more anti-US, but Iraq itself will probably become more pro-US, just like Afghanistan.

Quote
iraq changed over to euro in means of trading oil. would be a major blow for the us if more countries followed. for europe however, that'd be a good thing. that is the frigging reason why europe is "making such a fuss".


One of multiple reasons. There are the corporate oil interests, but also more importantly, the long-term international objectives that I talked of earlier.

Quote
But an extended series of terrorist strikes can do just that. It doesn't matter if it takes a week or a year to turn a city to rubble; in the end, it's still ash, and all the better if the enemy is thrown into a constant state of paranoia and disorder by the fact that they can never tell where or when the next hit's coming.


Still going to be somewhat hard to blow up every building in a city individually; you would need either some ten thousand strikes or a WMD, and there would be no way to wrest control of the place from the enemy or prevent them from rebuilding. And that is only one city. As for the popular reaction, it is just a matter of getting used to it really; for example, in Israel, these suicide bombings happen quite often, so the common people have gradually gotten used to it a part of life. The American public was shaken up by 9/11 because they had never been attacked before, but if the same thing happens again, there will be a somewhat different reaction; each subsequent terror attack is less effective at inciting fear than the one before it, especially if they are carried out with little gap between them, but they need to be carried out in quick succession or they will have no real lasting effect.

Quote
Naturally, it's useless for occupations and you've got another problem when it comes time to replace the government, but the "after" period of the conflict is of secondary interest to the parties using such tactics right now. At the moment, they've got a strategy that is damn near impossible to foil reliably (say 70% of the time), and cheap enough that you can always get enough through even the tightest security- it's a tactic that could eliminate their immediate problems, and as for the future... well, it's enough that they've got a slight chance to win a war against infinitely superior forces, I think worrying about the flaws in it (when a rebuilding and replacement government is even a concern, which it isn't really when we're talking about groups like Hamas and al Qaeda- they just want the US and Israel out of their hair) would be highly counterproductive.


That's quite true - it is indeed cheap and reliable - but like I said earlier, there are not really great rewards for pulling it off either. Even the suicide squads are not going to provide them with much of a chance in kicking out the US and Israel completely; like I said earlier, they will be a nuisance and occupy some time/resources, but that's about it.

Quote
Meh, the mass bombings are so going to cause trouble and stir up anti-american movements.


um, you should be happy about that, right? That's exactly what the EU wants, you know. :D

Quote
Its just sick to bomb a city with 3000 bombs. Haven't you seen the footage? They've aired it here... The big ass explosions don't seem very nice for the surrounding area.


It is even more sick to sit on chairs.

 

Offline Stryke 9

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It's a joke I've heard about 500 times too many. Not your fault, but that misperception ticks me off quite a bit.

 

Offline J.F.K.

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Iraq - The Great Thread - all war news goes here
Yikes, big thread merge!

Honestly, what do you guys think is the reason the big European powers are opposing the war? Do you think it's because the US stands to take an economic strangle-hold on the world after the war and the cheap oil starts flowing? I'm pretty ignorant in this area, so I'd love anyone else to put forward their thoughts too.
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Offline Tiara

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:wtf:

I don't want Bush to lose, I don't want terrorist attacks. Hell, now the war is on I'm on Bush's side. But I can still say that I think something is wrong and might have dire consequences.

I think hes a dumb asshole, but I want him to win this war now its impossible to stop.

Ow, and CP, shove a chair up your @$$ :p

Just cause I'm not 100% pro war/pro Bush you assume the worst of me.
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Offline Tiara

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ok, does anyone know why there is a Dutch command officer at the General franks speech wich is currently on? :confused:

We aren't supporting the war in a military fashion yet there is a Dutch officer... Kinda counterproductive :doubt:
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