Poll

do you think we should, you know...

I am an american and I think we should
25 (26%)
I am american and I don't think we should
14 (14.6%)
I am american and don't care what hapens
4 (4.2%)
I am not american and I think we (you) should
11 (11.5%)
I am not american and I don't think we (you) should
32 (33.3%)
I am not american and I don't care what you do
7 (7.3%)
I am american living elsewhere and will do it myself if they don't!
3 (3.1%)

Total Members Voted: 94

Voting closed: March 12, 2003, 05:52:55 pm

Author Topic: Iraq?  (Read 140522 times)

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Offline Bobboau

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sky news is the sister station of Fox news
so probly not the most nutral voteing pool, I would like to think we had popular suport but most of what I've seen tell me that Blair is going to lose his next election, becase of us.
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Offline Top Gun

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Quote
Originally posted by Dan1
How many people have actually been to the Middle East?  It's easy to say..."oh bush is just after oil ..etc" sitting from your computer and just reading polls off of websites etc.


It's nice to see your re-gurjatation of someone else's charges against you phrased so incoherently and without any evidence that nobody in their right mind could possibly be influenced by them. With you making the more radical claim (The Notion of the US as a Philanthropic defender of humanity and 'democracy' throughout the world and Saddam Hussain is Pure Evil (whatever one's definition of evil may be) who has very nasty weapons which he almost certainly will use to attack American civilians with if left alone (despite it being a certain act of political and probably personal suicide) and can be ousted via a foreign invasion which will cause next to no 'collateral damage' and will be gratefully received by a thankful public) the burden of proof is on you. However, your belief in such an extraordinary claim with no such extraordinary evidence, whilst employing quite advanced sociological phrases nestled amongst a very inarticulate bulk of the rest of your posts, coupled with a kind of naive, childish like narrow-mindedness would suggest that you're an ideal candidate for the title of armchair sociologist.


 
Quote
Originally posted by Dan1
Try visiting the region sometime, visit a Kurdish (:confused:  hope i spelled it right) town sometime.  Or try going to one of their prisons and tell the people inside that you want to wait longer becasue you don't know if it's right.

Selective thinking comes into play here in this highly emotive piece of drivel. I am in no doubt that the Organs of the Iraqi state have been brought to bare against the Kurds, as have been the Turkish and British, and prison and police brutality is certainly not Unique to Iraq. By all means support the war as a war of plunder, a giant piece of propaganda, an example to other states of the destructive power of the US, a sadistic supression of the will of another people, at least the logical case for them would be sound whatever people's/your philosophical issues with them may be.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2003, 04:46:19 pm by 266 »

 

Offline Warlock

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:rolleyes:
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Offline Tiara

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:ick
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...because I can :drevil:

 

Offline CP5670

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;7

(just to keep the trend going)

Anyway, it looks like we have some more fun stuff here:

Quote
1) to distract is citizens from the failing US economy
2) to get some oil in the proces
3) to make it look like he's actually doing something
4) because is nice advisors told him to do so.


1) The economy is failing because people are paying attention to it, since it is primarily psychological; if they stop doing that, markets will rise again. But people are actually paying more attention to the economy than ever before because of the prospects of uncertainty that go along with any war.
2) Which is a good thing eh? oil is better than no oil, simple common sense. (although the oil idea is just a silly excuse invented by the common rabbles for lack of anything better; it simply does not stand up to economic scrutiny)
3) Everyone is doing something all the time; you cannot do absolutely nothing, so he doesn't really need to show anything there. Besides, he is obviously serving the interests of the nation by conquering others.
4) See, he listens to others! he is a man of the people!

:D

Quote
I would just love to see the UN make an example of the US if Bush would pull this off.


Actually what would happen in that case is that it would go the other way; the UN would be the one to lose credibility (which is already happening anyway), since the plan they were opposing turned out to work fine. :D

The thing about the UN is that they can only talk; they don't have the power to actually take any actions.

Quote
...an example to other states of the destructive power of the US...


This is one of the big objectives actually. :yes: This reputation means a lot in the international world, since it increases the credibility of threats the nation makes in the future.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2003, 01:14:43 pm by 296 »

 

Offline Unknown Target

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*Thinks of a Wierd Al song, sung to the tune of "Bom-bom-bom-bomaram, or whatever):*

Kurd, Kurd, Kurd, Kurd is the word.
Bomb Bomb Bomb, let's bomb Iraq
Saddamed if I do, Saddamed if I don't,
bomb bomb bomb, let's bomb Iraq.
When I am Through
What will I do
Why I'll bomb a country nastier than you!
Bomb Bomb Bomb, let's bomb Iraq...!

 

Offline Mr. Vega

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Quote
This is one of the big objectives actually.  This reputation means a lot in the international world, since it increases the credibility of threats the nation makes in the future.
Well, yeah, but you seem to miss the fact that demonstrating this will only incur the wrath of the rest of the world. 300 million vs. 6 billion. And opposition to the US is only getting stronger.
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Offline Warlock

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Somehow ...I doubt the 'rest of the world' would 'unleash it's wrath' upon the US.  :doubt:

Last reports I saw still only had France, Germany, and Russia actually stating the didn't agree with the US attacking Iraq, the rest just want to wait and give Sadam a little more time.
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Offline Mr. Vega

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My point is showing off power right now is probably going to fuel rebellions instead of causing nations to cower. Not that Bush has the ability to try such a thing intentionally.
Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assaults of thoughts on the unthinking.
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Offline Petrarch of the VBB

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Indeed. And if not rebellions that mass protests, like Hyde Park a few weeks ago.

 

Offline Razor

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Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
Actually what would happen in that case is that it would go the other way; the UN would be the one to lose credibility (which is already happening anyway), since the plan they were opposing turned out to work fine. :D


:lol: :lol: :lol:
OMG please stop this! You are killing me! Hey why don't you kill us to death with math orientated comments instead of this?  At least they are boring and make us mad but this...this is just histerically hillarious. :lol:

No serriously dude, do you really belive that it would be that way? US wins over UN? One nation against all the other nations of the world. Hey you are a math genious you do the math and tell me the odds.

 

Offline Stryke 9

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Oh joy, let's play "burden of proof" volleyball!


At any rate, while "only" France, Germany, and Russia's governments oppose the war (Never mind all those piddling nations in the rest of the world. Bush can't pronounce 'em, we don't care about what they have to say), that's just the governments. You'd be exceedingly hard-pressed to find a single country outside of the US and maybe Israel (of course) where the people supported the war. And keep in mind that when the government starts overtly acting regardless of what its populace wants, the masses get shooty, mobby, and stabby. Which means that such an unpopular war greatly increases the odds of a coup in several major countries installing a reactionary government that hates the US unequivocally and makes no bones about it. It's called international politics, and it's why no other US president short of Roosevelt has gone cowboy.

 

Offline Warlock

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Like in Vietnam for example ?

and honestly I don't think any war could called popular,.. thus they're all unpopular wars.

On a completely different note:

Kinna funny when you think about Desert Storm,...ppl all over with yellow freaking ribbons tied to every-damned-thing in support,......yet 12 years later when Saddam has still failed to comply with the treaty set forth from DS,... ppl ***** and whine.

God I love this country! :D
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Offline Stryke 9

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Hindsight is 20/20. Unfortunately, you can look at it all you like for lessons for the future, all you can see is your behind.

I think I need a new pack of toilet paper.

 
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Hmm it seems like a lot of non-american people who frequent here are from France/Britain. Actually right now Sushi is in Romania and says support for the US is very strong. Besides think about all the French ties to Saddam. It is no wonder why they don't want him to go with all the deals they have with him. :rolleyes:
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Offline Deepblue

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Quote
Originally posted by Silver_Scythe
Hmm it seems like a lot of non-american people who frequent here are from France/Britain. Actually right now Sushi is in Romania and says support for the US is very strong. Besides think about all the French ties to Saddam. It is no wonder why they don't want him to go with all the deals they have with him. :rolleyes:


:nod:

 

Offline Stryke 9

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'Course, it's hardly fair to assume the French have ulterior motives and that Bush doesn't, seeing as both are just as strong, and in fact center around effectively the same things (shoring up popular approval and oil, to name the two most significant)

 

Offline Deepblue

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Why would we go to war for the oil when it would use more oil then we would gain by going to war.?

 

Offline l_MiG_l

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Well the first thing i need to say is "US stop the presure to my country in the Security Council in the UN" and i think my country says NO to the war in the votation.:nervous: well i think that.
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Offline Stryke 9

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Because it's not about getting the oil itself, dude, it's about getting the oil money.

Think of it this way- he starts a war. Oil prices shoot through the roof. Everyone's paying through the rectal cavity for fuel, but what are they gonna do- stop driving? This is the US- outside of some major cities, not only are things often well beyond walking distance (particularly for physically inactive, lazy people like we apparently are) but you take your life into your own hands by becoming a pedestrian. I've been nearly hit more times than I care to remember, and it wasn't always by accident that the car clipped me. Okay, so then the war's over. Oil prices go back down, but the companies made a fat profit. Now, guess what? Free oil! And they can still charge the same they always did for it! Yay! Everyone wins! Except for the Iraqis. And the consumers. But then, they didn't get Bush into office, and if you toss 'em a bone and a couple fine-sounding sentiments, they'll be grateful all over again, so they hardly matter.