[Terorist]

Originally posted by Goober5000
Lagrange points?

They are points between celestial bodies, where their gravities cancel each other out, creating a more or less stable point where an object experiences the least amount of pull. There are many Lagrange points in our solar system - for example, between the Earth and the Moon, or the points between Earth and the Sun - and many others, like in Jupiter's system...

Naturally, someone beat me to it - was reading other threads and didn't reload this one to check before replying. Check the links though...

[J.F.K.]

Originally posted by Terorist
There are many Lagrange points in our solar system

There are four for each pair of bodies, right?

Edit: Checked your link, I think that's right.

[Stryke 9]

JFK: I think it depends on the number and location of other nearby bodies of mass.


Stunaep: Yeah, planets have gravity. So do my nuts, just not a whole lot. That's different from being made of gravitic energy.





And the subspace thing is good and handy, if you ignore a few things, but nobody's yet explained how subspace provides energy any more than, say, a dead haddock.

[Star Dragon]

That assumes the Shivans evolved from something else... I mean if you want to try to emplain it in a realistic way (for a game).. I mean the shivans couldn't have existed like that from the beginning...  Chicken and the egg...

   Shivans were a biological race at one point, then did a borg and merged with machines (probably on the nano level) found that their biological needs caould be replaced (like eating) with power couplings/batteries ect.. That would lead in to your feeding off of subspace or anti-matter or whatever you want... How does that sound?

[Sheepy]

The every day '3 legged bouncing of the wall, plasma cannon/blade weilding shivan' is a robot, not the actual life form which created them (if they exist anymore) ... or on the otherhand does it really matter, its a game get over it

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Sheepy
or on the otherhand does it really matter, its a game get over it

Today, random idea you thought up for this thread. Tomorrow, inkling of an idea for a mission. Next year, 10 mission campaign that everyone is applauding for its originality.

From small acorns massive oak trees grow

[Goober5000]

Hear hear. That's how Deus Ex Machina came about.

[Stryke 9]

Uh... yeah.

What I wanna know, why is everyone into the subspace idea when there are all sorts of other solutions that would actually make sense without you having to make up all sorts of other stuff that doesn't really fit in the universe. Things such as nuclear/inorganic power, some sort of modified photosynthesis (maybe they're hiding a big ol' wing of photosynthesizing membrane under all that armor- light's readily available even in deep space), or even that they just eat normally like we do and a LOT when they're not blowing stuff up.

[Mr. Vega]

Because we want the Shivans to stay enigmatic and far more advanced. As Bosch said, born from the flux of subspace. A more normal thing like fusion doesn't really do them justice (remember what happened to the Borg).

[Stryke 9]

It'd be hard for me to remember that, since I don't know what happened to the Borg.


Mysterious is well and good, nonsensical isn't. If you can't explain it without an improbable, self-contradictory theory that ends up turning a fairly straightforward interdimensional wormhole (of the sort that's been used in SF for fifty years) into a big net made of gravity, which is somehow inexplicably more useful in that form, it's not worth considering. Particularly since you're given a lot of leeway in physics by the game.

I mean, hell, I could make a more coherent argument for why Bosch is in fact a caramel apple than has been presented here so far.

[Goober5000]

Well then, make your argument.  I'm curious.

[Stryke 9]

Argument as to what exactly? That they could potentially consume regular biomatter as food? I hardly think that needs much explaining, although it'd be kinda a low-energy source for such a demanding alien. Nuclear could possibly work, if they didn't operate under a cellular structure like us- or had diamond-dense stomachs to absorb the gamma rays. That'd be an excellent food source for something that had evolved in space, or on a mineral-rich but barren and atmosphereless rock like the Shivans may well have- probably a planet much like Mercury.

But that's too easy. Go back to the subspace thing- I was having fun *****ing there for a while.

[Liberator]

The Shivans we're familar with could have been like that from the beginnings of their species.  Likely they were engineered to be at home in a Zero G enviroment.  

As far the 'no breathing' thing,  we breathe to take advantage of the relatively large amount of energy released in an oxidation reaction.  We would be relatively immobile if we relied on direct radiation, as our bodies are not set up for it.  

The Shivans on the other hand look like they were designed to live and work and war in space.  

The idea that they somehow feed on subspace energies is born out by their total focus on controlling the subspace nodes where the fabric of space is the weakest.  Their defending their food source.

Also likely, the race that geneered the Shivans were the first to be wiped out by their creations.  An act of divine retribution, certainly.  But also punishment for creating so fragile a species.  Any act that damages or destroys Subspace could, and probably would, be looked on as an act of war.

Using this reasoning, we can assume that the standard Subspace Drives and/or Subspace travel damages Subspace in some way.  The Shivans unique connection to subspace means that their drives are different from their Terran or Vasudan counterparts somehow, rendering them safe to use for travel.  It would also explair why the Shivans wipe out species that have discovered Subspace Travel.  They are being poisoned.  What they have failed to understand is that they aren't giving the various species time to discover the flaw and fix it.

If the Shivans are connected to subspace so closely they might not even be capable of understand Humans or Vasudans or that there is another way to solve their dilemma, by providing data proving the existence of a flaw in our design and allowing us to correct it.

[J.F.K.]

Maybe the Shivans are extra-dimensional... well, I mean, we already know that this universe supports some number of dimensions beyond those we can sense (something like nine? I can't remember), so it's no stretch that the Shivans can sense these other dimensions. Perhaps harnessing subspace energies is a simple process in these other dimensions, somewhat like absorbing energy from the Sun in our universe... just by radiation. Similarly, transferring these energies from Shivan ships would also be a simple process, as demonstrated by the Shivans and what they did to the Capella star.

Well, anyway, I don't know any proper scientific theory, so this probably doesn't make much sense at all.

[IceFire]

Originally posted by Liberator
The Shivans we're familar with could have been like that from the beginnings of their species.  Likely they were engineered to be at home in a Zero G enviroment.  

As far the 'no breathing' thing,  we breathe to take advantage of the relatively large amount of energy released in an oxidation reaction.  We would be relatively immobile if we relied on direct radiation, as our bodies are not set up for it.  

The Shivans on the other hand look like they were designed to live and work and war in space.  

The idea that they somehow feed on subspace energies is born out by their total focus on controlling the subspace nodes where the fabric of space is the weakest.  Their defending their food source.

Also likely, the race that geneered the Shivans were the first to be wiped out by their creations.  An act of divine retribution, certainly.  But also punishment for creating so fragile a species.  Any act that damages or destroys Subspace could, and probably would, be looked on as an act of war.

Using this reasoning, we can assume that the standard Subspace Drives and/or Subspace travel damages Subspace in some way.  The Shivans unique connection to subspace means that their drives are different from their Terran or Vasudan counterparts somehow, rendering them safe to use for travel.  It would also explair why the Shivans wipe out species that have discovered Subspace Travel.  They are being poisoned.  What they have failed to understand is that they aren't giving the various species time to discover the flaw and fix it.

If the Shivans are connected to subspace so closely they might not even be capable of understand Humans or Vasudans or that there is another way to solve their dilemma, by providing data proving the existence of a flaw in our design and allowing us to correct it.

Yes definately along my line of reasoning.  I doubt that Terrans and Vasudans are destroying subspace but more likely disrupting it in such a way that makes the Shivans unhappy.  Perhaps they are drawn to centers of conflict because subspace gets used during conflicts.

I have a pretty good feeling that Shivans don't even recognize Terrans, Vasudans, Ancients or anyone else that they have destroyed or attempted to destroy as a civilization or a species or anything...I largely consider the Shivans to be the giant that didn't know he stepped on the microscopic bacteria.

Blowing up suns seems like no problem to them and I have another feeling that perhaps they are re-arranging subspace in the galaxy by doing that.

[Goober5000]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
Argument as to what exactly?

Originally posted by Stryke 9
I could make a more coherent argument for why Bosch is in fact a caramel apple than has been presented here so far.

[Xelion]

I have to agree in some conceptual belief that if the Shivans draw energy from subspace that is literally saying they eat subspace in some formailty if thats even possible...

[Kaelic]

My personal opinion is that the Shivans live in or somehow need the Nebula as seen on the other side of the Knossos. I think they wiped out the Ancients and destroyed most of their Suns. Thats why there was a Nebula there and now the Shivans have created a new one in Capella.

[tEAbAG]

I know this got bumped pretty well, but I like this kinda crap.

The shivans have to reconize us on some level because their fighters, desytroyers, etc. are designed for combat with other spacefaring civilizations.(Except for the Sath; science ship?)  They also deliberately annihilated terresterial settlements.  They seem linked with subspace some how, but they could also just come around once races begin aggressive expansion through the galaxy(galatic peacekeepers?)

[JudgeMental]

One thing has occured to me...  Perhaps they don't extract energy from subspace, but use it as an energy conduit much like ships use it as a matter conduit.  It would fit, as it could serve as a means of communication, and COULD tie into those funny subspace relays (I forget what they're called, they're the funny looking things with the crystal in the middle and the rotating arms, and have big explosions).  The concept of a hive-mind might be able to be tied into it as well.  But anyway, perhaps the energy is actually created somewhere, injected into subspace, and extracted at places where a full-sized generator would be inconvenient.

Just some thoughts.