Author Topic: A Perspective on *gasp* Politics  (Read 3540 times)

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Offline Sandwich

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A Perspective on *gasp* Politics
Yeowch!

[q]A young teenage girl was about to finish her first year of college.

She considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat and her father was a rather staunch Republican.

One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his opposition to programs like welfare. He stopped her and asked her how she was doing in school. She answered that she had a 4.0 GPA but it was really tough. She had to study all the time, never had time to go out and party and often went sleepless because of all the studying. She didn't have time for a boyfriend and didn't really have many college friends because of her studying.

He then asked how her friend Mary, who was attending the same college, was doing. She replied that she was barely getting by.  She had a 2.0 GPA, never studied, was very popular on campus and was at parties all the time. She often wouldn't show up for classes because she was hung over.

He then asked his daughter why she didn't go to the Dean's office and ask why she couldn't take 1.0 off her 4.0 and give it to her friend who only had a 2.0. That way they would both have a 3.0 GPA.

The daughter fired back and said "That wouldn't be fair, I worked really hard for mine and my friend has done nothing".

The father smiled and said: "Welcome to the Republican Party".[/q]
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"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline an0n

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A Perspective on *gasp* Politics
Pfff. If her father was a true Republican be would have had Mary killed and bribed the school into giving his daughter a 4.0 without her doing any work.
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Offline Kamikaze

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A Perspective on *gasp* Politics
Wouldn't it make more sense to say the girl was a socialist or communist? Not sure a democrat necessarily cares about complete equality.
Science alone of all the subjects contains within itself the lesson of the danger of belief in the infallibility of the greatest teachers in the preceding generation . . .Learn from science that you must doubt the experts. As a matter of fact, I can also define science another way: Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. - Richard Feynman

 

Offline Crazy_Ivan80

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A Perspective on *gasp* Politics
riiiight :rolleyes:
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Offline Ace

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A Perspective on *gasp* Politics
This only proves that her father is a conservative republican, because of his views of democrats and himself :ha:

NEXT! :o
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Offline Stryke 9

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A Perspective on *gasp* Politics
Pfff.

First, Democrats are the slimy bastards who are just as evil and powermongering as Republicans, but put on a populist face, while the Republicans nowadays have the balls to be openly neofascistic and dare anyone to point it up. You're thinking commies.

Second, no proper commie gives a **** about grades. They're an illusion, an arbitrary, useless mark made by a bureaucratic system in order to trick stupid people into following the illusion of some higher award, and any proper communist would recognize that they are actually necessary or, indeed, real. They're quite a lot like money in that sense, though the analogy doesn't extend to the context of this anecdote.

Third, you don't find it a little childish to draw a parallel from, say, a working-class guy who has a daybreak-to-midnight job killing himself at the factory drawing minimum wage to feed his half-dozen kids to some dumb chick who parties all day and then complains about grades? She doesn't obviously care, she's the good commie. She's learned the important lesson, that you only work for rewards that are real, and slaving away just because you're "supposed to" isn't reason good enough. But there are poor people who do need money. Quite a ****ing lot of them. You don't ****ing well party all night if you're starving to death, or dying of tuberculosis because your house is just a few walls and a plywood roof and you can't afford proper medical care. You'd damn well work if you could, because the alternative is a gruesome, painful death.

Oh, yes, they're all so ****ing lazy, rather have a lifespan of 40 years the last 20 of which are a living hell than get some goddamn cushy desk job pulling five or six ****ing figures a year.


Jesus, you damned rich kids don't get out much, do you?

 

Offline vyper

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A Perspective on *gasp* Politics
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Offline Rictor

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A Perspective on *gasp* Politics
dont make me laugh.

I'll be a bit stereotypical here, but just to get my point across..

Who are Republicans? Rich white people. How did they get rich? By the blood and sweat of others, dating back over 200 years. What do they claim to admire? Hard work and reponsibility. What do they lack? Hard work and responisbility.

If we all started our lives with equal opportunities, equal wealth, education, environment etc etc, then you'de have a point. But we dont.

I think The whole Reublican/Democrat/Communist/Socialist etc etc distincion is stupid. I do what I think is right. If in that case that is acting in a socialist manner, fine. If at some point I look upon a situation in a Republican manner, fine.

__________

A simple question: Speaking from a purely moral perspective, is it fair that some people in this world live in mansions and drive Ferraris, while some work 18 hours a day to barely be able to feed their family?

I happen to live in a rich part of town, and I am constantly disgusted by the people. Some people get a Lexus for their 18th birthday, and some get a 5$ pair of jeans, cause their old ones are 10 years old.

Is it fair that some members of thre human race live in splendour beyond any real need, while some starve to death?

Answer that question, and then ask yourself what political affiliation you belong to.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2003, 08:44:12 pm by 644 »

 

Offline IceFire

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A Perspective on *gasp* Politics
In other countries we do tend to have other political parties that cover a greater range of the political spectrum.  In Canada we've got plenty of politican parties ranging from the Canadian Alliance mega right wingers to the NDP left wing socialist party with Liberals somewhere in the center and the PC's just to the right.

I don't have a good count on all the parties in England but Labour, Liberal, and Torries seem to be in there somewhere (seeing as the Canadian system is somewhat based on the English system).

The whole Americna Republican / Democrat debate is meaningless....as I see it, you've got conservative Democrats and more conservative Republicans :)

So you Americans out there, go get some real political parties and come back later :D :D :D

The grades / welfare thing is an interesting comparison.  The problem is that if the comparison is to be made, then maybe we should compair high class and low class with high achievement and academic probation (i.e. needing assistance in studying).  The girl who is partying is making a tradeoff...she could easily attain high GPA's, not necessarily so for a person on welfare or the student that is struggling.
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Offline Grey Wolf

A Perspective on *gasp* Politics
*Puts "Hiring Revolutionaries" sign on the lawn of the White House*
:p
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Offline Blue Lion

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A Perspective on *gasp* Politics
Why do I see this thread getting very large very fast?

  

Offline Grey Wolf

A Perspective on *gasp* Politics
No, it won't. It'll be closed by tomorrow morning.
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

 

Offline Stryke 9

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A Perspective on *gasp* Politics
Skepticism about the transparently nonexistent divide between the Democratic and Republican party these days is one thing (the Democrats used to be better liars), but if you're imagining that communists and socialists are at all like Democrats or Republicans, you've been woefully undereducated, son. Sure, there are a few "socialists" who cynically manipulate the cause as sort of a neofascist trip- the sort of "revolutionaries" who, if they ever won through, would turn right around and line up every other left-winger against the wall. They're total bastards, but they're the minority by far. Go do some research, and I don't mean the kind that involves asking your government-subsidized ninth grade teacher or something.

 

Offline Sandwich

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A Perspective on *gasp* Politics
Quote
Originally posted by IceFire
The girl who is partying is making a tradeoff...she could easily attain high GPA's, not necessarily so for a person on welfare or the student that is struggling.


I knew I could count on you to sum things up. :p I think that's the point whoever wrote this is trying to get across - if those people on welfare actually tried, the could reap the benefits of their labor, too.

Now before everyone starts bashing me, lemme put in a disclaimer: I'm quite in the dark when it comes to American politics and social things most of the time; I just like throwing these things out here to see what the rabid wolves do to 'em. ;)
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"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Blue Lion

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A Perspective on *gasp* Politics
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich

I think that's the point whoever wrote this is trying to get across - if those people on welfare actually tried, the could reap the benefits of their labor, too.


Then you assume that it's easy to get the "4.0" in life, which it always isn't

 

Offline Rictor

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A Perspective on *gasp* Politics
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich


I knew I could count on you to sum things up. :p I think that's the point whoever wrote this is trying to get across - if those people on welfare actually tried, the could reap the benefits of their labor, too.






so all those people in Africa, Asia and even in the UK, US, Canada etc that are starving..well they're just lazy right? If they got of their asses, they will do just as well as anyone in the US, and will soon own 2 cars and 3 TVS? right?

no offence, but how naive are you?

 

Offline vyper

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A Perspective on *gasp* Politics
Scottish Elections (Devolved Parliament)

Politics isn't always black and white.
Or Green and Blue in scotland's case. :nervous:

EDIT:
For my area:
[q]LAMONT, Johann
Lab, Glasgow Pollock
***
Grim feminist whose office wall is decorated with the framed testicles of opponents. Takes everything seriously, including herself.[/q] :shaking:
« Last Edit: May 08, 2003, 05:27:38 am by 798 »
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Offline Kamikaze

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A Perspective on *gasp* Politics
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor

A simple question: Speaking from a purely moral perspective, is it fair that some people in this world live in mansions and drive Ferraris, while some work 18 hours a day to barely be able to feed their family?

I happen to live in a rich part of town, and I am constantly disgusted by the people. Some people get a Lexus for their 18th birthday, and some get a 5$ pair of jeans, cause their old ones are 10 years old.

Is it fair that some members of thre human race live in splendour beyond any real need, while some starve to death?

Answer that question, and then ask yourself what political affiliation you belong to.


This is where practicality and idealogy fight in me. Practical Kamikaze says that yes, it's fair. His world would be a police state, killing and eating all the useless people. Keeping poverty out by slaying those who are poor and useless, or if they can work, making them work.
Idealogical Kamikaze says "of course not" and likes equality in material means. He prefers a communistic, utopian society.

the more important question imo is... practicality or idealogy?
Science alone of all the subjects contains within itself the lesson of the danger of belief in the infallibility of the greatest teachers in the preceding generation . . .Learn from science that you must doubt the experts. As a matter of fact, I can also define science another way: Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. - Richard Feynman

 

Offline CP5670

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A Perspective on *gasp* Politics
The "conservative" and "liberal" terms don't mean anything when applies to politics; conservatives frequently want radical changes while liberals want to stifle liberties. :p

Quote
A simple question: Speaking from a purely moral perspective, is it fair that some people in this world live in mansions and drive Ferraris, while some work 18 hours a day to barely be able to feed their family?

I happen to live in a rich part of town, and I am constantly disgusted by the people. Some people get a Lexus for their 18th birthday, and some get a 5$ pair of jeans, cause their old ones are 10 years old.

Is it fair that some members of thre human race live in splendour beyond any real need, while some starve to death?


Of course it is! Compared to the plight of chairs, none of which have any chance of making a good living. :( Is that fair? huh? bad humans... :mad:

:D

Quote
Why do I see this thread getting very large very fast?


I don't really have time to write my usual essays at the moment; let us see if someone else fills in for me. :D

 

Offline IceFire

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A Perspective on *gasp* Politics
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor






so all those people in Africa, Asia and even in the UK, US, Canada etc that are starving..well they're just lazy right? If they got of their asses, they will do just as well as anyone in the US, and will soon own 2 cars and 3 TVS? right?

no offence, but how naive are you?


Do please read what he actually said.  Sandwich was pointing out what he believed the POINT of the original article was...not his own stated viewpoint.  So before you berate someone, understand their meaning critically.

My point was that this is where the fallacy of the entire original argument that Sandwich kindly posted for debate (and once again, not for the purpose of personal attacks).  Sandwhich was agreeing with me for summing things up and getting across the point that there was something inherently wrong with the argument.
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