Author Topic: I abase myself before thee...  (Read 8786 times)

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Offline Flaser

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I abase myself before thee...
There are lot of types of mech or mecha
-You've got your run of a mile giant robot *most unlikely* with slow movement and high firepower
-Then there's the mech - the slow IS mechs that are truly at the mercy of airpower, or faster Clan mechs that have a lot more power
-Other mecha like from Full Metal Panic - they are faster and more agile, but lack built in weaponry
-Mobile Suits from gundam universe - those humanoid mechas simply spend more time in the air than on groun - on the other hand they were developed for space combat
-Veritech fighters from Battletech - the ultimate mecha. It can fly as a plan, fly and figth like a mech, and fight like a true mech

MS and Veritech on the other hand sported hand held weaponry and extreme manuveribility. The slow Battletech Mechs are more realistic with their crude weapons and simple controls - a neurohelmet is more likely a feasible way to drive a walking monster than a hundred levelers.

The main reason for using mechs would be their agility - your tank can be fast, but it can't dodge bullets.
The second reason is their arnament - if you can build something suited to take out anything at see, land or air....

About Evangelions I mentioned - they are not actually mechs - they are cloned and controlled versions of the alien entities refered to as Angels. They have an AT field that can widstand even a nuclear blast - like a kind of force field.
"I was going to become a speed dealer. If one stupid fairytale turns out to be total nonsense, what does the young man do? If you answered, “Wake up and face reality,” you don’t remember what it was like being a young man. You just go to the next entry in the catalogue of lies you can use to destroy your life." - John Dolan

 

Offline Arnav

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I abase myself before thee...
Okay... so how did all this even START?!
- Arnav
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Offline Shrike

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I abase myself before thee...
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
Actually, fiction aside, if they ever get a real mech-like combat prototype working like it should, it'd be quite an amazing piece of work. There's nothing like appendages with which to climb over obstacles, and the armor and weaponry level is purely dependant on the strength of the leg material. Honeycomb/bird bone it, and you'd have a sweet setup. ;)
Ah, the old 'mechs can carry as much as a tank' argument.  I've seen it before. ;)

Alright, so you have your sixty ton mech, same weight as a tank.  How big do you think it'd be?  Ten meters tall?  Fifteen?  Assume it's the same width as a tank.

That's a hell of a lot more frontal area.  Sure, you might has thirty tons of armor like a tank, but it'd be spread over a much wider area.  For a vehicle that weights the same as a tank and presumably is supposed to serve the same roles, you'll have something that is far more vulnerable to heavy weapons.  At the same time you have some sort of main gun, which is placed on the arm, I suppose.  So you'd have an extremely high off-centre recoil which is acting against a, relatively speaking, flimsy piece of vehicle.  It'd be like firing a .50cal sniper rifle one-handed.  BAD idea.

Furthermore, running is a less efficient motive form than rolling, and requires more moving parts, which means weak spots and maintenance problems.

So, what do you want to use this for again?  Crawling over rubble?  Seems rather overspecialised.

Sorry, but when you bring realism in, mechs are not effective.  Impressive feats of engineering yes, useful combat vehicle no.
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Offline Arnav

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I abase myself before thee...
:confused: :confused: :confused:
- Arnav
Creator of Technological Superiority: http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/techsup
"At least I have job" - Unidentified Soviet Flak Trooper before being prismed.

 

Offline Shrike

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I abase myself before thee...
Quote
Originally posted by Flaser
The main reason for using mechs would be their agility - your tank can be fast, but it can't dodge bullets.
The second reason is their arnament - if you can build something suited to take out anything at see, land or air....
Oh, come on.

You honestly expect to dodge a kinetic penetrator going at 1.6 km/s+?  You've been watching the matrix too much. ;)

Furthermore, making a mech 'agile' would impose far too many stresses on its frame, stresses which would have to be compensated for and thus taking away from its role - blowing stuff up and not getting blown up in return.

You don't dodge on the modern battlefield, you either don't get seen or you absorb what gets shot at you.
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline SKYNET-011

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I abase myself before thee...
Quote
Originally posted by Arnav
Okay... so how did all this even START?!


Something about communism.
Petrach and a few other escaped in a pod but were covered in watermelon juice....it was horrible :eek2: :shaking: -dan87uk

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Offline Turnsky

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I abase myself before thee...
Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
Oh, come on.

You honestly expect to dodge a kinetic penetrator going at 1.6 km/s+?  You've been watching the matrix too much. ;)

Furthermore, making a mech 'agile' would impose far too many stresses on its frame, stresses which would have to be compensated for and thus taking away from its role - blowing stuff up and not getting blown up in return.

You don't dodge on the modern battlefield, you either don't get seen or you absorb what gets shot at you.


that and tanks have a lower target profile...
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Offline Stryke 9

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I abase myself before thee...
Never mind that the big reason why mechs would never survive in combat is illustrated quite well in that most scientifically useless of movies, Star Wars. It's an old, old trick in the guerilla warfare book to use greased black cables strung at angles to drive cars off the road, it doesn't take rocket science to apply that to tipping over mechs. Never mind that one landmine or well-aimed explosive of any sort would be enough to finish it permanently, while for tanks that means generally just a replacement tread. Well, depending on the yield and where it gets it, but a 100% higher survivability rate. More, really, since 100% higher than zero is still zero.

Anyway. For my money, you can stick with a classic.

;7
« Last Edit: May 28, 2003, 06:22:27 pm by 262 »

 

Offline Turnsky

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I abase myself before thee...
it's more likely that mechs would be used for civilian purposes... (ala Aliens Powerloader - okay it's an exosuit but you get my point)
   //Warning\\
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do not torment the sleep deprived artist, he may be vicious when cornered,
in case of emergency, administer caffeine to the artist,
he will become docile after that,
and less likely to stab you in the eye with a mechanical pencil
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Offline Grey Wolf

I abase myself before thee...
Realistically, mechs are most likely not viable. Exosuits, on the other hand, make far more sense. A good deal cheaper, and even thought they'd be far smaller and far more vulnerable than the full mechs, they'd still perform better, and possibly move faster, than a normal human.

A good example of an exosuit like I am picturing would be like the Skins in the book "Fallen Dragon". Improved strength, built in weaponry, armor, and life-support systems. But most definitely not invincible.
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

 

Offline Flaser

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I abase myself before thee...
I never said that a convetional robot would have any chance to survive battle.
What I speak of is monster of technology that can jump meters into the air, do 180 degrees in a split second and can carry a 400mm gun just like a rifle.
IMHO what sets a mech apart from a tank is just the legs.
A mech can traverse over rough terrain - jungle war? - and can change its direction faster and can aim faster. Mechs are not for open space warfare.
AS for that rope thing - can you do that with a tank? - a mech weighs almost as much. One more thing - maybe it can...get up?
Mines - definitly nasty - but the same goes for tanks, what can knock out a mech is likely to do the same to a tank.

Realistically we're lighyears away from developing any viable mech - same goes for powerarmors/exo-suits.

[EDIT]
We should get back on the actual issue of the thread - if this mecha thing is serious, some one should simply make another thread.
[/EDIT]
« Last Edit: May 28, 2003, 07:14:47 pm by 997 »
"I was going to become a speed dealer. If one stupid fairytale turns out to be total nonsense, what does the young man do? If you answered, “Wake up and face reality,” you don’t remember what it was like being a young man. You just go to the next entry in the catalogue of lies you can use to destroy your life." - John Dolan

 

Offline Arnav

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I abase myself before thee...
*Collapses from exhaustion of actually trying to find offers of help within these posts on MECHS?*
- Arnav
Creator of Technological Superiority: http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/techsup
"At least I have job" - Unidentified Soviet Flak Trooper before being prismed.

 

Offline vyper

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I abase myself before thee...
Quote
Originally posted by Arnav
Fascinating discussion guys :), but I really *do* need help for TS2.


Need voice acting?:nervous:
"But you live, you learn.  Unless you die.  Then you're ****ed." - aldo14

 

Offline Turnsky

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I abase myself before thee...
you really have been away for too long....

this is just normality...
   //Warning\\
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do not torment the sleep deprived artist, he may be vicious when cornered,
in case of emergency, administer caffeine to the artist,
he will become docile after that,
and less likely to stab you in the eye with a mechanical pencil
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Offline Knight Templar

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I abase myself before thee...
-nevermind-



I hate literates....
« Last Edit: May 28, 2003, 08:31:39 pm by 675 »
Copyright ©1976, 2003, KT Enterprises. All rights reserved

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Too Long, Didn't Read

 

Offline Stryke 9

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I abase myself before thee...
The kind he specified, most likely.

 

Offline Turnsky

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I abase myself before thee...
mission designers...
   //Warning\\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
do not torment the sleep deprived artist, he may be vicious when cornered,
in case of emergency, administer caffeine to the artist,
he will become docile after that,
and less likely to stab you in the eye with a mechanical pencil
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Offline TrashMan

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I abase myself before thee...
If I had to choose rifles, I'd go for the OCIAWS (20mm sniper + 9mm machinegun + granade launcher in one).

As for mechs...either a Veritech or this:



What I find stupid in 99% of all robot cartoons/series is the control method. I mean, controling a humanoid robot (head, legs, arms (with fingers!) + all the lasers, cannon and other stuff) with 2 joysticks and several buttons!!!:wtf:

Talk about stupidity.

*A shield capable of withstanding a nuke? Stupidity....
Action = reaction. The shield itself should then produce more power than a nuke!
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

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Offline Turnsky

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I abase myself before thee...
it's OICW (Objective individual Combat Weapon - i think)



i'll bet sandwich would want one:p
« Last Edit: May 29, 2003, 05:51:35 am by 86 »
   //Warning\\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
do not torment the sleep deprived artist, he may be vicious when cornered,
in case of emergency, administer caffeine to the artist,
he will become docile after that,
and less likely to stab you in the eye with a mechanical pencil
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Offline TrashMan

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I abase myself before thee...
Yeah, that's it.... I misspeled it..was allso thinking of the CAWS shotgun....
But nothing beats the OICW....

Well, allmost nothing:
ESCAFLOWNE....;7
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!