[Thorn]

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20030724.html

I would love to see something like this get up and running, even if I never used it. Just to see the RIAA get shot down would be enough for me....

[Kamikaze]

Interesting idea.

So who wants to chip in for the starting two million? I have a few bucks around here somewhere...

[LtNarol]

Artists would take a hit, but not that big of one.

[Flipside]

I find myself wondering, if someone hadn't downloaded, for example, a game off of one of these sites, would the game company be the extortionate £35 better off, or would they simply be in the same position?
I've always thought it ridiculous that Record and Games companies can more or less write their own blank cheque as far as prices are concerned, especially since most mainstream Record companies churn out variations on a 20 year old theme over and over again
Maybe if the companies tried dropping their prices to the point where people didn't have to ration themselves to one album every month, and where a game didn't cost more than an average Birthday present, if they actually competed instead of standing around complaing and waiting for the world to change to suit them, if they tried paying their artists more than one percent of their profit..........

-ahem-

Sorry

Flipside

[Solatar]

Originally posted by Flipside
I find myself wondering, if someone hadn't downloaded, for example, a game off of one of these sites, would the game company be the extortionate £35 better off, or would they simply be in the same position?
I've always thought it ridiculous that Record and Games companies can more or less write their own blank cheque as far as prices are concerned, especially since most mainstream Record companies churn out variations on a 20 year old theme over and over again
Maybe if the companies tried dropping their prices to the point where people didn't have to ration themselves to one album every month, and where a game didn't cost more than an average Birthday present, if they actually competed instead of standing around complaing and waiting for the world to change to suit them, if they tried paying their artists more than one percent of their profit..........

-ahem-

Sorry

Flipside

Agreed.

The recording industury pisses me off more than Microsoft, and that's saying something.

I have file sharing turned off on Kazaa anyway, I figure that the rest of the world doesn't have to worry about these assholes, so they can share the files.

[Stryke 9]

Wah wah wah- extortionate. Nobody's forcing you to buy them, y'know. And, more practically, nobody's forcing you to buy new ones. Games that are two to ten years old are every bit as good as new ones, run faster, run better provided you aren't running 2000 or NT, and next to all of 'em cost nothing or less. Quit moaning and start dredging the bargain bins and abandonware sites.

Warez, like all theft, is only okay (to any interpretation except the ridiculous) if you can't afford to get the product another way. You're not paying $400 or so for your average game, you're paying $50, practically nothing- and for something you don't actually need in the first place. I can understand game makers being pissed off about file sharing far more than, say, the RIAA, and they do have a point. They're overzealous about the whole deal, and tend to shoot themselves in the foot (or, more properly, their customers in the foot), but still- that's how they make money, and if you really want their services just ****in' pay for 'em or wait until they don't wanna gouge ya for the price anymore.

Sheesh.

[Kamikaze]

I should note that downloading warez is not theft. It'd be theft if you grabbed an Unreal Tournament 2003 box off the shelves and ran off with it.

[diamondgeezer]

Well, yes, but pretty pointless theft since only the empty boxes are displayed...

[Solatar]

Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Well, yes, but pretty pointless theft since only the empty boxes are displayed...

Not here.

[Stryke 9]

Theft- taking something from another individual or organization against their will.

Now, how does that not apply to warez? A physical-state object is irrelevant- I can steal an idea, and if someone steals my models or my book from me (both of which are solely in electronic format at the moment) I will ****ing hunt them down and skin them alive with a rusty spoon. Of course, parasites who don't actually produce anything for their income or ever plan to wouldn't understand the concept of proprietary rights in the vaguest, so it's probably a waste of time to try to explain this to you, but warez is by definition theft.

Whether it's invariably unjustified is another story. I don't price-gouge, I actually sell my stuff- when I do sell stuff- at well below the market average, probably a good less than the $10 an hour I could be making at manual work, because I genuinely enjoy making the stuff, and would prefer most of the time to be doing something I love (/hate, depending) and get byin than work at a job I hate for a few extra frills. Setups like Photoshop take what they can get, not what they need, and at that point the social contract with the people is violated, and a degree of theft is, while not a good, acceptable in the balance, and a way of counteracting overpriced software's tendency to be closed off to the non-rich (incidentially, my copy of Photoshop is legit- I like their product, don't wanna deal with the flaws that always come with cracks, and didn't have to pay for it in the first place- gawd I love small corporations).

However, you don't have that problem with games- anyone who can afford the sort of computer that's needed to run modern games can afford a game if they really want it. If they don't, then, well... you get the warez kiddies, who feel obligated to have 20 gigs of stolen files on their computer at all times or else their manhood is somehow null. Which is idiotic, and frankly I'm on the side of the assholes who plant viruses in ISOs. If you can't pay $2000 for a piece of software, you are poor- and if you're clever can do what clever poor people have done for centuries on end, which is **** the system. If you can't pay $50, you don't want the product, don't need the product, and don't have any claim to getting it another way. Both are theft, but one is the "liberation" sort of theft and the other is the "I'm a scriving piece of **** who should have my computer taken away from my punk ass before I start kidscripting viruses" sort of theft.

[diamondgeezer]

Knew Stryke wouldn't be able to resist giving us some definitions. The lovable scamp.

[Kamikaze]

In a court, there is a difference between theft and warez, and between theft and illegal music downloading despite what the RIAA wants people to believe. (there are some exceptions I hear, but I'm not sure on the details) I am not saying warez or illegal music downloads are ethical. (or that they aren't)

[Stryke 9]

DG: Perhaps I should start a betting pool on what your next post will be. I guarantee I can clean up- the whole lot of you (us) are pretty damn predictable. You're just barely edged out by KT, who for some reason I can guess every time.

Kami: And my interest in what a court has to say outside the strict context of the law, getting caught, and what happens afterward is... what? Not much- the court makes its own definitions out of expediency, they don't mean anything to anyone not in danger of being prosecuted.

[Knight Templar]

I think my pride is hurt... but of course, you knew I was going to say that.

[Singh]

In India, $50 = a bit more than Rs 2000
So a game would cost around 1 or 2 weeks supply of food. Whereas, a pirated CD game (or in this case, Warez) can be brought from the local CD market for Rs 100 ($2) or even Rs 75 if you know the person. Buying corporate priced CDs here is not an option- which is why the pirated CD market is so damn succesfull here.
And affording a system to go with the games isnt that hard either, but to pay so much extra for the games is still unthinkable.

[Flipside]

Remember, these are the same companies that do not wish for you to make copies of games you HAVE paid money for, not even for security reasons! The music industry is talking about the next generation of single being 'rentable' and massively encoded with a serial that only lasts for a maximum of three days. That is what I am saying, this whole attitude of 'cough up and don't whinge' is being ground into the public by the very people who are shouting loudest against point to point networking. As for legal... great, someone writes something down and all of a sudden it becomes immutable fact.
Taking from someone against their will. A CD costs about 3-5p to produce en masse. And yet the standard cost for an album is £14.99. Now, if you also consider the fact that the 80% of recording artists barely break even from record sales, that makes an absolutely enormous wodge of money for the record companies. I wonder who is taking money against who's will, and I would like to know why THIS was absolutely fine by the 'law' and has been for years.
I am not against supporting artists and programmers, but the simple fact of the matter is that buying games in supports only the shareholders and management of these companies.

I am not saying I use P2P, nor am I saying it is ethical to do so, I am saying that if the Record and Computer industry continue to abuse it's customers, and keep telling them to 'cough up and stop whinging' at obviously over-rated prices, then why are they surprised when their customers turn against them?

[elorran]

I hate to burst everyones bubble but this is illegal by international law primarily through patent copyright issues legal issues.  Some of you might have also heard the term 'the poor mans copyright' before which is also part of international legal treaties which many products actually carry including lots of music CD's.

If something like this was legal it would have already been done already as a feasable business.  Unfortunately for the guy who wrote it, he has apparently over looked the particular section I'm thinking of (the C in a circle, there is also a similar scheme that operates on the C in brackets which I believe also covers this too), which forbids usage of such materials (ie the music) for commercial use through any form of shared investment without direct concent of the copyright holders/owners.

So who want the job of going round asking for permission from several thousand companies and artists?  (many of whom are bound to step on your feet).

[diamondgeezer]

Stryke: saw-dust and treacle! Put that in your kipper and smoke it!

[Stryke 9]

I tried it before. That so does not get you high.

Flipside: Did I say anything nice about the software or recording industries in there? If I did, it musta been a typo; disregard it. But whether they're lovely people or not is irrelevant. Assholes should be allowed their rights too- that doesn't mean ya can't treat them like assholes, but if we went around abusing everyone we didn't like, well... I'd need hydrogen bombs.

[diamondgeezer]

Six breasts!