[AlphaOne]

ok now I wanted to run this by you guis so that i know if im not overdooingit.
here it goes:
-I imagined a super carrier some 21km in leghth, 4 km wide and 2.7 km in depth, that can carrie some 3200 ships bommber and fighters and interceptors..!
It has 3 RBFB(really big f...... blue a new tipe of beam weapon that replaces the old BFG not to mention that is a lot bigger and powerfull and with a shoeter delay time.)
4 TerVasShi slash (it "borewed from the shivan beam weponry)
12 AAAf beams TerShi design 2000 m range.
18 flacks new tipe of course and some 35 AAAf turrets not beams,that shoot solid shels and shield disruptor energi shels and also ahave a missle launcher inbedded..these are used for short range protection against enemy ships andbombs torpedoes and other stuff like that.
also it has a top speed of some 30m/s

the other ships has the same specs in design oly that its more heavely armoured and armed.
-5 RBFB
-9 TerVasShi slash
-8 LRBFB
-15 AAAf beams
-40 AAAf turrets
-25 Flacks from the short range to the heavy long range

another thing I want to metion is the number of bommbers and fighters present in home sistems:

-100.000 fighters/interceptors:
Hercules Mk IV 35.000
Pegasus Mk IV   9.000
Perseus Mk III 30.000
New-Raptor       3.000
       -Cyclon     20.000(space superiosryti fighter)
New-Scorpion    3.000

-68.000 bommbers:
-Rombat             20.000
New-Archangel     8.000
New-Arcalight       5.000
       -Crucader    30.000
New-Lancer          5.000

please let me know what you think and excuse mi spelling but im from a non enghils speaking country!

[karajorma]

And the player's just there to watch things blow up right?

Seriously before you go any further with this have a good look at Inferno for a example of how Uber ships can be done correctly.

That campaign works cause there are only a few missions with uber ships in and in those missions the player has an effect on the mission. But there is a limit to the number of times you can do a "blow up X's beam cannons" before the entire thing gets very boring.

If you're going to have huge numbers of big ships present you fall into one of two traps very easily.

Either every mission suffers from Battle of Endor syndrome (I.e the player has next to no effect on the outcome of the mission) or the GTVA send out ridiculously small numbers of fighters out to achieve important goals while keeping massive fleets of ships doing nothing.

As for the big carrier you're talking about are you planning to build it yourself or is this just a thought experiment?

[AlphaOne]

actualy the whole purpouse of these huge ships is to somehow balance the power in the whiole war with the shivans having the masive Sathanas fleets not to mention the number of destroyers corvettes an so on.
also I have to mention the arival in my campaign story of a new race wich are just as powerfull as the shivans and there is no crap here these guis talk on equal terms and gues what these guis dont like the GTVF either (Grand Terran Vassudan Federation)
soo the Gtvf is cought between 2  "giants" that could crush it like a bug if they work togheter.
These ships (the 2 suppers carriers) are designed to pin down and anihalate entire fleets I mean just one supper carrier with its fighter bommber compliment could take on up to 5 maibe more juggernaughts and destroy them.
These super carriers would never apear in a mission where it has to take on several destroyers or something like that...because it would be boring i mean sure it would be fun to watch a whole detroyer fleet beeing swared by a masive number of fighters and bommbers but it would be boring none the les..!

These things are designed to work togheter one providing the huge number of fighters/bommbers and the other providing the beam cannon firepower that the other lacks.
I mean can you imagine these thing engaging an entire armada of shivan cap shis in 2 maibe more sistems and after capturing those sistems holding them I mean comeon that is one tough job even for these giants beacause then they would have to spread theyr huge fighter compliments in several sistems on patrols and why not atacking the enemys..!
I thought of my campaign story in such a way that these giants never well almost never have to be in the same area as the rest of the GTVF fleets wich i must add in more then 50 years has grown quite a lot..! These things have to hold on a battle line that streches for 5 sistems these are sistems that the shivans can enter and engage the GTVF forces and if they pass them wham bam thank you mam' gain acces to the GTVF space and i mean gaining acces to some 14 jump nodes to diferent areas in the GTVF space. the other fleets are ment to engage the enemyes in 7 other sistems fosr start and then to some 17 sistems by gaining acces to 10 more jump nodes.
Nothing has been left to chance i think and as soon as i finish mi campaign and do the final touches i will email it to someone for spelling errors and other stuf like that as fosr making the mods for thesse things its out of mi hands im to inexperienced in moddesigning to be able to finish them or even complete them in 3dmax,so sorry!
Yet again excuse the english.!

[TopAce]

The Colossus was built in over 20 years, how much time would this one take? The Col is 6 km, this one is 21 km, which is more than its three times in length, in addition, the beams, and misc weapons, fighter complement, paying the crew, maintaining the ship, repairs, etc. Not an economical dream. . . .

At least a centauri.

And why does it need to repel a SJ fleet? They are at Capella, without a way out of there

[Unknown Target]

Are you the Alpha One from the VBB?


*growls menacingly*

[Knight Templar]

Err, do they have Paragraphs in Romania? Paragraphs are your friend.

And yeaaahh....

[TrashMan]

The biggest Alliance ship in DOTA will be 12.5 km (or 15, we still waging a small war over that). Making super ship and just having them blow stuff up is something you should reserve for only 1-2 missions MAX (and even then don't make them too big).

As far as the build time argument:
The Alliance has lost allmost all systems in the First Great War, so building a big ship AND re-bulding their empires is really a massive endaveour.
In the Second Great War the Alliance lost many ships, but only 1 system, and is more technologicaly advanced, so making bigger ships should not be too much of a problem.

That's my two cents

[LAW ENFORCER]

I find your ideas about the new aliens quite typical...

if you wanna mega big ship - go ahead but people will flame you when you release it unless you hire a techncle adviser for you entire camp - which is a good idea! err.... him over there for example....



[:thepimp: ]
In my camp, I have tried to eithr think diffrent or just bombard the tyipical cliche (you know that word, yeah that one) with so much more than normal and make it work its just too cool! (But I am making it so what I say dont count much:doubt: )
[/:thepimp: ]

[Descenterace]

Size doesn't matter...

The GTVA always struck me as being more technologically diverse than the Shivans, who just focus on firepower.  Which is why my ship, GTVD Revenant, uses an ENTIRELY NEW type of weapon.  After all, the GTVA are more likely to invent a new way of building Beam Cannons than just copy Shivan designs.  It's an arms race, and just copying the enemy won't help in the least.

The Hyperbeam looks like a Beam Cannon, but actually the warship focuses energy within a 'pocket' of subspace.  This technology is a result of research into Apollo Gate technology (Knossos), and the weapon takes up the entire front surface of the warship.
Revenant is only 8km long, and acts primarily as a Carrier when not blasting juggernauts.  The ship looks basically like a massive flashlight.  The dish at the front is the Hyperbeam Cannon, and the fighterbay runs right around the ship about 1km in front of the engine block at the rear.  Apart from its main armament, it has the following:

* 4 GTVA equivalents of the Sathanas Beam, mounted equidistant around it just behind the dish so they cannot fire forwards,
* 8 Medium Slasher Beams spread out around it, but unable to fire forwards,
* 80+ targeting lasers for main weapon, which fire forwards and have 30km range but do not cause damage,
* 10 Pulse AAA Beams (technically the same as a standard AAA, but fires 10 shots in the time normally taken to fire 3 and recharges slightly faster),
* 18 Flak guns.

The GTVA Sathanas cannons are slightly weaker and have a slower charge rate.  The Pulse Beams aren't much more powerful than the normal AAA; just more accurate against fast ships.

The maximum range of the Hyperbeam is approximately 40km, and the shaft of energy is about 2km in diameter.  Hence the reason for building up the power in subspace, because no solid object or forcefield can possibly contain it.  The Hyperbeam has a similar effect to a supernova, but confined to a smaller area...

Excerpt from my book, 'Apocalypse Nigh', written from the perspective of a young pilot serving on the GTSD Aquitaine:

By now I was at least five klicks from the Revenant, well behind the menacing dish.  My threat indicator was silent, so I stopped and turned to watch our warship in action.
An aura of white light was growing in the ship’s maw.  Not a fireball, but a faint glow like torchlight.
Almost below the threshold of hearing, a low groan invaded my ship.  It rose to match the natural frequency of my cockpit, making my instrument panel shiver.  If this was a subspace disturbance, it was a pretty big one.
Revenant:   “All friendly fighters stay out of the direct line between us and the Sathanas.  We are firing our main gun in five seconds.”
The juggernaut had sensed the growing subspace warp field.  It was turning away from New Alamo, towards Revenant.  The Shivan fighters were withdrawing.
Revenant:   “Initialising subspace cascade.”
I was almost ready for it when it came, and my eyes were tight shut, but when the aura fell inwards and became a subspace tunnel, the light was so bright it was visible through my eyelids.
Space tore asunder as a two thousand metre wide shaft of energy blasted forth from the muzzle of GTVD Revenant and painted a fiery white line to the target.  The Sathanas was highlighted in supernova colours as the storm raged around it.  Atom-thick layers of armour peeled off and vanished in the stream, and the ablation continued until the juggernaught’s core was visible, incandescent in the hellfire.
Then even that broke down and disappeared.
The beam thinned out and cut off.  The background roar subsided.  I opened my eyes, expecting to see the wreckage of the Sathanas.
There wasn’t any.
In under five seconds, the juggernaught had been atomised.  There was not a Shivan on scope.

There is NO WAY a ship of this magnitude could possibly fit into a playable campaign.  You'll have to wait for the completion of the book to find out what happens to it, but it DOES end up facing a 20km Shivan superbattleship...

Yeah, I do ramble on a bit, don't I?

[Taristin]

A bit...

And this is just what we need. Another super destroyer!

[TopAce]

Originally posted by Descenterace
Size doesn't matter...
.....it DOES end up facing a 20km Shivan superbattleship...

Yeah, I do ramble on a bit, don't I?

Yes, honestly said I don't know what does 'to ramble' mean, but YES

Well, I personally thought the Sathanas fleet consists of 80 SJs QUITE and exegeneration, or has vyper told me: overkill. And the 20km long Sathanas ... well, I have no idea where can the Shivans get those amount of material/money/crew etc. to maintain at least 80 juggernaughts and that superhyperuberultra Sathanas ...

[TrashMan]

*Money? Do Shivans get payed?

Just how big is the Shivan empire? Do all shivans work/fight or do they have something like women/children that saty (mostly) home?
Untill you can answer this question you can't say that any Shivan fleet is too big or too small?
What if they own the whole galaxy? Is 80 Juggys too much then?

Anyway, I have nothing against superships, as long as they are realistic, plausable and they fit well in the game.

And if you want realism - there are some battles in which a single pilot has no or little effect on the outcome!
You call it the Battle of Endor syndrom, I call it real life.
Everyone has SOME effecton the battle, no matter how small - If you take out 4 fighters and a beam cannon you make the job easyer for your capships and pilots!:ha:

[AlphaOne]

Actualy that is the point....such a large ship such as the one i described !
These ships dont have realy large and powerfull weaponry because that would realy make them almost imposuble to destroy!
Instead they have a realy large amount of ships protecting them and that makes them more likeli to be destoyed if they are engaged by a large force!
And lets not forget that if the GTVF has these ships you can imagine that the Shivans have something of equal  power and number!
These ships arent ment to be used against minor battles !
The whole pourpose of these ships is to establish a strong presensce of the GTVF in former contoled shivan space!
I mean is it cheapaer to keep a whole fleet on boarger patrols with the constant fear of destruction if the shivans attack in force or keeping such a superlargeship with its huge compliment of fighters and bommbers on boarder patrols !
Such a shp could secure more then 5 sistems at once with no aditional help and could hold off the shivans and even defeat them if they attack..!
And with the apearence of the 3rd race wich is just as powerfull as the shivans and hate the GTVF just as much such a large ship makes its presence more then likely!












:thepimp: :thepimp:

[Nico]

I remember the time of wing comander 1 and 2, the large ships had a few huge weapons, it was not very hard to dodge their shot, but they'd kill you right away if you took one

[TopAce]

Originally posted by TrashMan
*Money? Do Shivans get payed?

Just how big is the Shivan empire? Do all shivans work/fight or do they have something like women/children that saty (mostly) home?
Untill you can answer this question you can't say that any Shivan fleet is too big or too small?
What if they own the whole galaxy? Is 80 Juggys too much then?

Anyway, I have nothing against superships, as long as they are realistic, plausable and they fit well in the game.

And if you want realism - there are some battles in which a single pilot has no or little effect on the outcome!
You call it the Battle of Endor syndrom, I call it real life.
Everyone has SOME effecton the battle, no matter how small - If you take out 4 fighters and a beam cannon you make the job easyer for your capships and pilots!:ha:

It is mind that how large the Shivan empire is. They surely won't do any larger business than the Sathanas fleet, they probably learned from the Capella incident, that fleet size is neglible in the case that fleet cannot move anywhere ...

[AlphaOne]

I though that the Lucifer was the largest ship ever constructed and I believe many of U guys thought the same but the came the Collosus...and the game was never the same.. !
Now who sais the Sathanas or the Colossus has to be the largest ship who knows what the shivans wanted to do when they blew up Capella...!
So the apearence of these large ships is more then "real"..!
I mean if the shivan empire is at least 3 times the size of the GTVA controled space and i believe it more then just 3 times the size they would build more then one SC.
Lets not forget that they controle the nebula wich provides them with a huge amount of precious resources!
By the way here is something from my campaign story:
Flashback moment at the beginning of the campaingn story!
"......."
Crewman of the Independence:"Sir you are needed at once on the Independence!"
Adm.Petrov:"Im sorry honey but it looks like I have to go.I promise to make it up tu you and Andrew..bye!"

On board the Independence:
Com.Officer:"Sir incoming message from Adm.L...!
Adm.P:"On screen.!"
Adm.L:"Peter this is an emergenci...!A large NTVA force is headed your way I dont know how but they managed to get past our blocades...you have to hold them of till reinforcements arive..!
Peter ...the scientifical station there must survive..!"
Adm.P:"What about the civilian station here..there are over 100.000 people here..?"
Adm.L:"Peter the research station must survive all other objectives are secondary...do you understand..?
Peter you better get your famili of that civilian station ASAP...!"
Adm.P:"when are the reinforcements gooing to get here?"
Adm.L:"The closest ship we have is the GTVFD Hades....but theyr eta time is 30 minutes...I'm sorry Peter..!
Adm.P:"I understend!"
Adm.P:"Battle station evryone thsi is not a drill"
Adm.P:"Take us closer to the jump node i want to be able to open fire on those son of bithches the moment they exit subspace.Lunch all fisghter/bommber compliments but keep 5      
wings of Pegasus fighters as back up!"
Adm.P:"Prepare the fire on mi command"
2 minutes pass!
Sensors oficer:"Sir incoming jump signature hostile configuration..Its a Orion MKIII destroyer sir with its fighter/bommber escort!"
Adm.P:Alright...on mi mark prepare to fire on that destroyer..3 2 1..fire"
Just then all the beam cannons on the Independence opened fire on the Orion with devastating efect..!
Sens.Oficer:"sir the orion is at 30% hull integrity and dropping fast"
Adm.P:"Alright...all available fighters and bommbers engage the enemy target its wepons sistems first!"
Sens.Officer:"Sir incoming jump signature hostile configuration...its a destroyer Nebula class...with its full fighter/bommber compliment..and a corvette sir!"
Adm.P:"My god I hope the reinforcements get here faster then anticipated!
Asign 4 bommber wings to take on that corvette and 3 fighter wings for protection the remaining bommbers take on the destroyer and asign 4 fighter wings to protect them to the target,the remaining fighters are to protect us from incoming bommbers will take care of the incoming fighters."
Sens.Officer:"Sir 6 wings of fighters and 4 wings of bommbers are scrambling to attack the stations...!"
Adm.P:"Lunch the remaining pegasus fighters to protect the staions."
Sens.Officer:"Sir incoming jump signature hostile configuration ita a frigatte and an cruiser sir withs theyr fighters and bommbers!
Sir the Orion is down and the Nebula is at 60% the corvette is gooing down sir 5% 3% 0%.
Sir the Friggate is charging its subspace engines it will jump past us sir."
Adm.P:"My god all available fighters and bommbers engage that frigatte.Its gooing after the stations"
Sens.Officer:"Sir the civilian station is taking heavy fire and request our help...sir the civilian station is at 40% and dropping fast.The sciensce station is at 86% and dropping!"
Adm.P:"Get me the stations commander"
.......
Adm.P:"this is Adm.P you are odered to evacuate the station ASAP."
StationCom.:"Already on it but we need at least 3 minutes sir can you buy us that time?"
Adm.P:"On it. Get 4 wings of fisghters to back up the pegasus fighters there we need to buy them 3 minutes people"
Sens.Off:"sir we are taking heavy dammage our forward cannon is down so are our flacks and 3 of our AAAf beams and our hull is at 46%..we cant take much more of this sir..Sir the friggate has jumped behind us and is opening fire on the civilian station sir"
Adm.P:"All rear cannons open fire on that friggate it must be destroyed.."
Sens.OFF:"Sir tye civillian station is down EVAC status was at 65%..!Sir the science station is taking damage sir its at 44% and dropping..and so are we..sir we have only 57% of our Fighter/bommber compliment."
Adm.P:"Take out that friggate and asign all pegasus fighters to protect that station."
Sens.Off:"Sir the friggate is down and so is the cruiser..sir incoming jump signature hostile configuration ita a HecateMKII sir with a small fighter bommber compliment."
Adm.P:"all right evac all non esential personel and prepare to ram that sucker."..
More to come !

well i gues i did a pretty good job.

[Descenterace]

Pretty good, AlphaOne.  I had an idea like the Hecate MkII in my story.

Of course, mine was a superdestroyer, and was renamed GTSD Morgul instead.  The first ship of that class was the Aquitaine.  It kinda got hit hard by a Moloch (bigger Beam than usual), and when it was repaired they upgraded it too.  Result: a nasty warship able to take on any other Destroyer.  Lucifer included.  Somewhat vulnerable to bombers, though.

[AlphaOne]

Thanks! And here is the rest of it..:
Adm.P:"OK lest show these sons of *****es what we are made of...!"
Sens.OFF:"Sir the nebula is at 42% and dropping the Hecate is at 80% but they are comming strong..we wont be able to hold them..of for musch longer!"
Adm.P:"Alright helm 20 degres right rudder i want to be able to fire at them everithing we got.."
Com.Off:"Sir we have reports from all decks of fires and heavy damage..we have several hul breaches...and our AAAf beams are off line so are aour flacks and missle launchers..the only thing protecting us now from the incoming bommbers and fighters are the AAAf turrets but they cant hold them off for much longer sir..these are close range wepons.."
Adm.P:"allright open fire with everithing we got on the Nebula and order all fighters and bommbers to concentrate theyr fire on the Hecate"
Sens.Off:"Sir our hull is ta 23% and dropping..sir we are gooing down we have only..argh god damnit ..sir that was  a beam cannon from the Hecate...we have only 2 beam cannons remaining.."
Adm.P:"Alright helm set a colision course for the Hecate fullspeed and fire at it with everithing we got..remaining.."
Just as the battle was thought to be over....:
Sens.Off:"Sir incoming jump signature....."
Adm.P:"God damnit ....well at leats they will say that we fought to the last breath.."
Sens.Off:"Sir its a Nebula destroyer with a full compliment of fighters/bommbers they are coming in fast....sir its the GTVFD Hades.
Sir incoming message from the Hades..."
"Independence this is the GTVFD Hades get the heall out of here we can take it from here.."
Adm.P:"Allright helm get us out of here...."

[Killfrenzy]

AlphaOne, the biggest FS2 ship to date is probably the Gigas. Download Inferno and have a look at her. She's ~20k, give or take and is bristling with weapons.

The biggest ship in my campaign will be about three times bigger (at least, that's what you're told) but to avoid FS2 whining at me, I'm going to use the SJD Sathanas trick!

You'll never engage her normally - this is a fly down the vent to ream her out from the inside type thing!

[Woolie Wool]

Originally posted by Killfrenzy
AlphaOne, the biggest FS2 ship to date is probably the Gigas. Download Inferno and have a look at her. She's ~20k, give or take and is bristling with weapons.

No, the Gargant is bigger at 37.5km and the Hara installation is bigger still.