[Sandwich]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15067-2003Aug19.html

[elorran]

What do people see in causing others harm like this?

It's just beyond me somethings as to why

[Woolie Wool]

As long as Jews are in Israel, Muslims will keep trying to drive them out and Jews will retaliate against Muslims. Religious hatred fuels this cycle of violence and death, and it will not stop in the forseeable future. Religion is a cruel thing that divides people and causes bloodshed. I believe that the world will be a better place if organized religion (but not spirituality) is exterminated. Not that such a thing would ever actually happen (it won't).

[Thorn]

What gets me the most is that most of theses people couldnt care less about what these people are fighting for. All they want to do is live their lives out in peace. But I suppose thats too much to ask from some of these assholes.

[Flipside]

Seems to me that most of these groups work on the Theory of 'Hate the Leaders, but kill the unprotected followers, regardless of whether they agree with their leaders or not'.

Flipside.

[Rictor]

Originally posted by Thorn
What gets me the most is that most of theses people couldnt care less about what these people are fighting for. All they want to do is live their lives out in peace. But I suppose thats too much to ask from some of these assholes.

Wait, who? You can't use non-specific terms for both parties, or it gets confusing.

I think that this is a terrible thing which has happened. But no more terrible than when the IDF goes into the camps and starts shooting. A bomb or a bullet, its the same. The Israel/Palentine situation is really one of the few conflicts in which right and wrong are not clear cut. One one hand, Israel is screwing the Palestinians bigtime. On the other hand, Israelis have to live in constant fear, and everyone is a potential target. I have an great-aunt in Israel, aswell as a family friend + kids, so yeah...it sucks..

[Thorn]

Originally posted by Rictor
The Israel/Palentine situation is really one of the few conflicts in which right and wrong are not clear cut.  

This is why I wasnt specific......

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Rictor
The Israel/Palentine situation is really one of the few conflicts in which right and wrong are not clear cut.

I think if you look at the facts, very few conflicts are so clear cut--especially when the US is involved.

[an0n]

Simple solution: "Stop fighting or we nuke the **** out of Jerusalem".

Nukes are supposed to be a deterant, right? So go use them to deter.

I mean, who the **** is gonna stop you?

Once you've proved your willing to use nukes, no-one will dare touch you because they know it'd just start a nuclear holocaust.

[Woolie Wool]

Originally posted by an0n
Simple solution: "Stop fighting or we nuke the **** out of Jerusalem".

Nukes are supposed to be a deterant, right? So go use them to deter.

I mean, who the **** is gonna stop you?

Once you've proved your willing to use nukes, no-one will dare touch you because they know it'd just start a nuclear holocaust.

The rest of the world will shun you and treat you as an outcast.  Nuclear warfare is pretty much considered a crime against humanity.

[Turnsky]

Originally posted by Woolie Wool


The rest of the world will shun you and treat you as an outcast.  Nuclear warfare is pretty much considered a crime against humanity.

nuclear 'Deterrants' never stopped conflict at all...

alfred nobel had the same hope when he invented TNT..

[Grey Wolf]

Damn. These people are morons.

Well, let's be optimistic. At least it's not as bad as the situation in Israel in the book Heart of the Comet. The current religious fanatics can't afford massive mercenary companies....

[an0n]

Originally posted by Woolie Wool
The rest of the world will shun you and treat you as an outcast.  Nuclear warfare is pretty much considered a crime against humanity.

Last I checked, so is genocide.

This is a case of two wrongs not making a right, but also not making much more of a wrong than just one.

[Sandwich]

To see what other non-Israeli populations were reading about the situation, I looked up "egypt news" in Google and the first result led me to the Middle East Times, a "...weekly source for news and independent analysis of politics, business, religion and culture
in the Middle East."

Ok so far.... I open up the front page.... hmm, can't see any mentions of the bombing. Let's explore.

*click*

[q]First paragraph reads:

Israeli and Palestinian security officials sought Friday to calm tensions after a round of violence that dented a seven-week-old truce and virtually halted efforts to implement a US-backed peace plan.[/q]

That's it. Not a single mention of the bombing yesterday.

[q]I think that this is a terrible thing which has happened. But no more terrible than when the IDF goes into the camps and starts shooting.[/q]

That's what you guys see reported in the news? No wonder Israel gets so much flak.

EDIT: Hmm, I just noticed the date on that article - August 15th. So I guess it can't be taken as a true picture of the current situation. The main question in my mind is, when they do update, what will they report on the bombing?

[diamondgeezer]

Well, what we see or hear more often is the IDF bulldozing the family homes of suspected militants. We get that fairly often. And the helicopter gunships firing missiles into Palestinian villages, that's popular too.

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Well, what we see or hear more often is the IDF bulldozing the family homes of suspected militants. We get that fairly often.

"Suspected militants", eh? No, we bulldoze the homes of suicide bombers. Their families get tons of monetary reperations for their "sacrifice", much of which is poured into the house itself. I was part of an operation to arrest a terrorist in Jenin earlier this year, brother to a suicide bomber. Anyway, this house - in the middle of nothing less than a slum - was unbelieveably luxurious.

So yeah, it's those houses we bulldoze, taking away that incentive to blow our pizza parlors and buses up.

Originally posted by diamondgeezer
And the helicopter gunships firing missiles into Palestinian villages, that's popular too.

....at known terrorists, yes. Call them assasinations, if you will - I do. Israel assasinates terrorist leaders. Unfortunately, sometimes there are innocent men, women and children injured and killed in the process. Where such casualties are likey, Israel has called off these targetted assasinations, to avoid those casualties. When it happens anyway, Israel sends condolences (which never really condoled me from any side, but I guess it's expected - that's politics for you). These terrorists, on the other hand, intentionally target men, women and children.

Is none of this mentioned in the media?

[WMCoolmon]

Bad news makes good news.

[diamondgeezer]

Originally posted by Sandwich
So yeah, it's those houses we bulldoze, taking away that incentive to blow our pizza parlors and buses up.
 

Surely you mean 'make them angrier and want to blow more Israelis up'?

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by diamondgeezer

Surely you mean 'make them angrier and want to blow more Israelis up'?

Well, yeah - the explanation is one of those theoretical "this should cause that" things. Listen, I'm not saying that everything Israel does is right - far from it. But when it comes to dealing with and discouraging suicide bombers, I'm all for wrapping them in pigskin (which annulls their going to heave with the 70 - or is it 80? - eternal virgins waiting one them).

But if we did that, of course, the world would not have it. Whatever.

[Rictor]

Originally posted by Sandwich
That's what you guys see reported in the news? No wonder Israel gets so much flak.

No, thats exactly what we don't see in the news. CNN, Fox, MSNBC etc etc are all very pro-Israeli. That's why most people think thats its a Devils vs Angels fight over there. Most of the anti-Israeli ( if reporting on Israeli military operations can be called anti-Israeli ) news that I read comes from Haaretz (sp?) so I don't think you can claim some kind of foreign bias.

Over here (I'm in Canada, its a bit better than in the US I imagine, bit still ) anyone who wants to see both sides of the story is labeled "anti-Israeli". There are 2 facts which I think are the cause of my sympathy for the Palestinian people.

1. The average Palestinian can be said to live in much poorer conditions than the average Israeli. This includes checkpoint, barriers, as well as food, housing etc etc.

2. During the past 3 years, around 350 Isrealis have been killed in suicide bombings. During that time, over 2000+ Palestinians have been killed by the IDF. There is probably quite a lot more to it than that, but numbers don't lie.

As I have mentioned, I am not altogether on anyone's side. I feel great sypmathy for what the Israeli people go thorough every day. As I've said, I have family there, and I by no means support suicide bombings. I simply think that there is more to it than : Isreal=good, Palestine=bad, which is how most of the media over here presents it.

And that "security fence", thats a whole other story...