[Setekh]

Originally posted by Stealth
Sandwich,

You have got no authority to tell myself or Hunt Smacker to stop encouraging people to make new campaigns.

You're only half right there, Stealth - we have no authority to command such things, but we do have the right to suggest it to you with our combined wisdom behind it. First, let's get straight that we're all on the same side - we both want what is best for the community. We understand that there are other means of hosting campaigns. That is not the point of debate - it's that we believe that simply starting up new campaigns is counter-intuitive to the community's desire for completed campaigns. It's the dilution of workers (I hate talking about people this way, but it's necessary for the moment) that is the real problem.

[Setekh]

Originally posted by IceFire
Y'know...campaigns never really had webpages till I started doing that whole thing with Warzone keeping people aprised to what was going on.

Its a good move Setekh...I understand what demands are placed on you guys and I understand what you guys needed to do.

Campaigns do not need forums, or webpages, or anything really to be launched.  There are hundreds of campaigns on the old VW Archives that came and went without webpages and plenty of people downloaded them, we know that.  WildWolf and I did Aftermath through e-mail largely without a webpage dedicated to it at all.  You don't need it...its a luxury item.  The BWO page has been a bit of a bane of my existance...they want updates

Thanks, Ice. That reminds me of another point I wanted to mention. The existence of a website is almost always unhelpful to the progress of the campaign itself - because you actually have to keep it 'updated', or people complain. If you think of it that way, it's simply an extra burden.

[Knight Templar]

Question: What about hosting forums for outside campaigns? Although space and stuff is nice and all, the forums I think are the real thing people are after because they draw in the community audience and allow discussion to happen regularly about the campaign, dead, alive, or crawling.

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by Stealth


Sandwich,

You have got no authority to tell myself or Hunt Smacker to stop encouraging people to make new campaigns.  

I'm sure you'll agree that simply because HLP has stopped accepting applications for campaign hosting does not mean that Freespace campaigns should stop completely.  No one has the authority to tell people to stop making campaigns completely... not you, not Styxx, not Shrike, not anyone.  Since campaign hosting has stopped at HLP does not mean it should stop elsewhere, which is why i'm (as well as Hunt Smacker) letting members of the community know that if they want to (now or in the future) create a campaign, they should not terminate the idea just because HLP doesn't host it anymore... we're letting the community know that there's other methods of getting campaigns/websites/files hosted, other than just on HLP.

I'm quite aware of all that, Stealth, but (it seems) you're missing the point. HLP has put on hold the hosting of new campaigns for two main reasons. One reason is because every new campaign that crops up asking for help is yet another "drain" (I hate using that word, since it sounds so negative) on the community's talent. Far too many campaigns are currently dead or dying for ONE reason - not enough help. This move by HLP is to discourage people from starting new campaigns until current campaigns start reaching completion.

So of course we cannot stop anyone from offering hosting to new campaigns. On the contrary, we're quite pleased at people's willingness to help - that's one of the things I love about this community!

But on the other hand, this super-helpful attitude is, ironically, what has brought the condition of most projects nowadays to what they are - stagnation.

So in closing, that's why I said "I feel like posting..." Had I not felt reservations about saying that outright, I would have said it. But I do realize that I cannot dictate to you or Hunter or anyone else what to do with your own resources - that's ridiculous.

But what I can do, and I thnk I will do right now, is this.

Stealth, Hunter, an0n (we know you're out there somewhere ), and anyone else who hosts projects: I can't tell you what to do. But what I can do is ask you to consider encouraging those who come to you for hosting to first offer their talents to the already-existing projects, so that they can have the extra help they need to pass the finish line. If you do this, don't be pushy about it. Just make sure that whomever it may be is aware that it would be a greater contribution to the community to join a current campaign than to start a new one.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Setekh


Thanks, Ice. That reminds me of another point I wanted to mention. The existence of a website is almost always unhelpful to the progress of the campaign itself - because you actually have to keep it 'updated', or people complain. If you think of it that way, it's simply an extra burden.

up...dated?

[Hunter]

Stealth, Hunter, an0n (we know you're out there somewhere ), and anyone else who hosts projects: I can't tell you what to do. But what I can do is ask you to consider encouraging those who come to you for hosting to first offer their talents to the already-existing projects, so that they can have the extra help they need to pass the finish line. If you do this, don't be pushy about it. Just make sure that whomever it may be is aware that it would be a greater contribution to the community to join a current campaign than to start a new one.

This we already do.

[TopAce]

Originally posted by IceFire
..

Campaigns do not need forums, or webpages, or anything really to be launched.  ...
You don't need it...its a luxury item....

And what about large projects with many, many people working on?(Star Wars conversion, and I see several men having the TVWP avatar, too, for instance). Those people can hardly do any progress only by E-mailing. Nobody would know what the other nine hundred and twenty-two are doing. Those need a fourm.

My project, OK. Maybe a forum is not required until it is done. Only at most for people to tell their opinion about it after its completion.

[Noise]

Originally posted by Sandwich



You what??!? You have a nearly completed campaign, and you did it all without HLP hosting?!?! How'd you do that???



See my point? Lack of HLP hosting didn't stop you at all. Great job!

Okay people, listen up, and listen good.  It's a very simple process, think, act, react, adapt and overcome.  From day one, only three people have volunteered to help me with my campaign, Trashman (models), Free Terran (Forum!), and Sandwich (HLP insider who offered welcomed encouragement), all of which I am extremely grateful to.  Of course I have to give thanks to the creators of the publicly release mods, who are many.  My campaign, which is composed of several smaller individually downloadable campaigns, has NEVER been a drain on HLP resources.  If fact, I've offered to help many times (experienced FREDer seeking employment), and only Trashman has accepted (BTW I'm still waiting for mission requirements).  

The point is, with a small amount of help, my campaign has a forum, a website, THREE completed chapters (13 missions each!), and another chapter nearing completion.  Think: Plan you campaign, what do I want to do and what do I need to accomplish it.  Act:  Find out what is available and who can and capable of producing results.  React: Use public released mods, you don't have to have "special mods" just for your campagin Adapt: Can do something?  Find a way around it, you might even have to change your story line.  Overcome:  Get the job done, even if it means you have to do most of the work.

I won't lie, it's hard work.  You may feel let down when you hard work goes unrecognized, but don't be discouraged, you can't please everyone.  I personally have produced far more than a lot of HLP hosted campaign have produced, and yet I can not get hosted.  Do I hear "Into the Depths of Hell" mentioned anywhere at all, no.  Oh well, that's life.  But did I give up?  No.  I'll tell you why, because all it took for me was for one person to practically beg for me to release the next chapter.  I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not going to give up on my campaign, I will continue to produce results, and if hardly anyone notices, so what.  That one person makes it worth it.

There I've said my bit.  Tear me to shreds if you want.

[karajorma]

How come you couldn't get hosted Noise? You sound like a fair candidate for hosting cause you have actually completed and released several chapters of your campaign.

[Black Wolf]

Originally posted by Noise

See Above

You, sir, need to pimp more. I remember chapter 1, but 2 and 3 I most certainly did not see.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by TopAce


And what about large projects with many, many people working on?(Star Wars conversion, and I see several men having the TVWP avatar, too, for instance). Those people can hardly do any progress only by E-mailing. Nobody would know what the other nine hundred and twenty-two are doing. Those need a fourm.

My project, OK. Maybe a forum is not required until it is done. Only at most for people to tell their opinion about it after its completion.

All yo'd need is someone who is in control, managing and assigning what work is done by the appropriate people.  That can be done with e-mail, and ICQ or something similar cna be used when real-time (ish) chat is required.

Also, it;s easy enough to find a free forum.

[Noise]

Chapter 3 is being released today.  By this I swear!

[Knight Templar]

Originally posted by Sandwich

*chop*

And what if you've been helping people.. sorta.. for a year now and feel like creating something on your own? Is it still bad to make your own campaign then?

[kasperl]

no, then you just know where the other easy ways of getting hosted are.

and still, you're supposed to show SOME forum activity.....
i still don't have a job.

[Styxx]

Originally posted by Noise
Chapter 3 is being released today.  By this I swear!

As we posted before, if you have a completed project, you'll still be considered. I suppose you applied for hosting (sorry, with the whole work on the new site I didn't have time to review the old hosting applications) - if so, we'll review it again, with the new content, and contact you.

And KT - I know how you feel, and it's a valid point. We're not, of course, forbidding anyone from starting new projects, we're just trying to encourage them to try to help out the current ones so they're finished (as was stated many many times on this thread already). If you have your own project idea, and you really want to work on it, go ahead - when another project is released, or when you're completing your own, if you want HLP hosting it may be perfectly possible. We just can't - and won't - host any more embryonic projects right now.

[TopAce]

A question: If RR gets ready, can I keep a FORUM here to allow people to write their opinions about it?

[Stealth]

Setekh and Sandwich:  I understand what you're doing, and to tell you the truth i agree 100%!  Because in the last 2 or 3 months there's been half a dozen projects closed or slacking... and i undestand that it's a lag to HLP and the rest of the community, so i agree with what you're doing, BUT if someone wants to make a campaign, why not let them?  If they're not hosting it as part of HLP, it's not going to be dragging down anyone

overall i agree with your move though

[karajorma]

No one is stopping anyone from starting a new campaign. They're just suggesting that people don't and saying that if they do insist on starting a new campaign don't expect to be hosted here. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

[Stealth]

Originally posted by karajorma
No one is stopping anyone from starting a new campaign. They're just suggesting that people don't and saying that if they do insist on starting a new campaign don't expect to be hosted here. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

right.  it's a very good idea i think, because hopefully it'll stop a lot of the projects from slacking/stopping work completely.

but people should still start new campaigns occasionally i think  if not with HLP

[Killfrenzy]

Originally posted by Styxx
We just can't - and won't - host any more embryonic projects right now.

Define 'embryonic.'

If you mean a project that someone's just thought up and wants to make, then I agree with you.

But what if something has been worked on for a year and a half and is only now coming to fruition in a physical sense?

Some ideas take a lot of planning and when you're on your own, it takes a LOT of time to make everything.....

Then you have inspiration dropouts and workload increases from exterior sources and then people get annoyed at you for lack of anything for a while......

And whatever happened to that 'HLP Skills' thread that surfaced a while back?