[Setekh]

Guys, as some of you may know, the SCP coders do indeed have their own internal forum - they requested it, and we granted it. I'll leave it to them if they wish to tell you their exact reasoning, but I can tell you now that the internal exists only to help them code better - not to keep anything 'secret'. What I am here to tell you about is the CVS, and how you can keep up with every little change the coders make.

In case you didn't know, CVS stands for Concurrent Versions System, and is basically the mechanism through which all the coders can work on the same files concurrently and submit their updates, while keeping track of the changes made by all the other coders. We code-inept people can watch their progress, though, by downloading CVS and checking out the bits of code as they fiddle. In order to get CVS working, you'll first need to download WinCVS 1.2 (the latest stable version) - here's a list of mirrors. Once you've downloaded it and installed, what you need to do is head over to the SCP website, specifically, the page on using CVS. Follow the instructions there - and once you're logged in, download the latest build and have a poke around. You'll get the hang of it surprisingly quickly.

If you have any questions about the SCP at all, the public forum is still open for questions (after you've looked through the FAQ, of course!). The public forum will only be slightly quieter since the workshop has been moved behind closed doors, but remember, the best way to help the coders help you is to help them test out their new builds and give them lots of pretty little screenshots that show off their work, or Fred some missions that use the new features. Get to it!

[redmenace]

I knew there was an internal forum. I was told there wasn't. I knew it.  Lying sobs. Can we at least read it, or, I hate to be childish, but is there stuff that you don't want us to read?

[Drew]

no wonder this forum is mostly dead now....

[Setekh]

When were you told there was no internal?

They have decided so far (with great deliberation and debate, I might add) to keep it private, for their own reasons. If they want to tell you, I am certain they will.

[Nico]

well, that was obvious there is an internal forum, when you see new posts on the main forum page, but none in the forum itself, that means  someone posted in an internal forum.
d'uh.

[Flipside]

To be honest, I am glad they have somewhere quiet to work, it's hard enough coding without having comments flying back and forth between long stretches of code. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it will help get us all a more stable, reliable and better looking SCP, so it gets a massive thumbs up in my opinion.
Besides, do you really want to wade through pages and pages of code dump, which is probably what this forum consists of mainly?

Flipside

[Setekh]

Thanks for the support, Flipside - it's nice to know someone recognises the fact that these guys deserve this (in fact, the SCP forum was originally going to be solely internal), and that it really is for the best. In any case, it is only under a trial period right now. The coders are under orders to post conscientiously.

[redmenace]

well Why don't they tell us the reasons for keeping it private.

[Setekh]

Probably because they are asleep.

[mikhael]

Actually, they DID tell you the reasons in the other thread. Specifically its an internal forum where they can discuss the code etc, without getting threads slammed with feature requests.

If internal access is very important for you, the simple solution is to ask to join the SCP team formally.

Let them have their privacy. As Steak said, if you're really curious, just cvsup the nightly code.

[Fry_Day]

Technically, it isn't only about code, just technical discussions, such as how to implement lighting in the TnL version (as right now it's still buggy). That isn't code, mostly, but rather discussion in a higher level, but that doesn't make it something to which a non-coder could contribute, most of the times (I say most, because, rarely, maybe someone who doesn't understand the underlying system could suggest something helpful, but most (>99%) of the time it just ends up as posts which are totally useless).

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Flipside
Besides, do you really want to wade through pages and pages of code dump, which is probably what this forum consists of mainly?

But if they've got a private forum they might be saying bad things about me

[Kazan]

Originally posted by Flipside

Besides, do you really want to wade through pages and pages of code dump, which is probably what this forum consists of mainly?

Flipside

actually thus far it's been more "tehre is an issue in module X, it does function Y wrong"

and from there


and as a couple people said - a lot of high level theory in the Internal TnL thread

[redmenace]

but the logic doesn't make sense. How does having a private forum that non-SCP people can read but not post in allow people to request features? Feature requests will still be thrown around no matter what you do. If you announce stuff in the main SCP forum(IE progress) you are going to get swamped with requests. As it stands it is also those feature requests that keeps people interested and wondering about stuff. If those questions about it start becoming ignored and left unanswered people will just not care as much.

[Setekh]

What you've missed, though, redmenace, is that at present requests are not everything. Innumerable requests have already been made and right now what needs to be achieved is a lot of groundwork. Further requests will only hamper this stage of the SCP's development - and even if they were to respond to all your requests, to keep people interested, then that would merely slow down their work with the HT&L, for example.

Do you want a project whose goal is constantly interesting the people and keeping them wondering about stuff, or instead aiming for a solid, bug-free product at the end of the line? Give me the latter for my money - and that's the other point. These guys are contributing their time and effort for free. They've already decided what they want for now, and it is not as if they haven't thought about it (I know, I was the one pushing them to do so). Let them work in peace - at least for now.

[J3Vr6]

U guys are gonna do whatever you want anyway, and if an internal forum is what you guys need to get progress then by all means do it.  But you have to admit for those who aren't part of the SCP it makes them feel like they can't see this grow or watch things develop.  Everyone going to this SCP forum is now on a "Need To Know Basis" if they're not part of the SCP team and that makes people feel hurt (for lack of a better word).  Especially when it's something they love (Freespace).

Please consider having a forum where only SCP people can post but others can't.  That way we can see what you guys are doing and how things are developing without us getting in the way.  

And if by a freakish chance someone out there knows code or something and has a suggestion on how to implement something from reading your private forum, they can easily post in the normal SCP forum where everyone can post.  They could just easily say:  "Hey, I read in your private forum that you're having trouble geting Y function from module X.  I think you can do it better by using blah blah blah"

CVS is something I won't even bother with as I won't understand it anyway and gives you feeling of being unattached.  Seeing SCP people actually make threads or posts about those features or codes is what keeps people hooked.

Anyway, that's my two cents and hope there's some consideration.  SCP rules and we'll always look forward to releases and tests.  We just hope we can see behind the scenes.

[redmenace]

You guys find the balance, I am just doing what I do best: pointing out the obvious that and making a rucous. I understand that there needs to be of ground work done. before they can fully work on turrets(just for an example, like what nuke suggested) they need to fully disect the AI coded and other things. And H T&L needs of work. there are massive bugs. And another point. Those of us beta testers, many of us still have those old TNT2 Ultra cards, we have outlasted our usefullness to the project. For now on the burden is on those with Geforce 2 and beyond. also will Phreak and Bobboau keep there builds up todate in there signatures? That also reminds me how it phreaks new perseus coming along?

[Flipside]

Besides, once TH&L is implemented and stable, I am sure they will be happy to filter back through the requests and see what is a good idea and what is not. Freeing up the CPU by letting the Graphics card do what it is supposed to opens up a lot of possibilities if the coders are feeling ambitious and ambivalent enough, they post often enough on the SCP Main forum to get a good feel of what the majority of people want. Thanks to the source code guys, Freespace 2 is more flexible in the modding and mission design areas than ANY other Space Sim out there. Adding new ships is becoming easier and easier, thanks to Modelview, Kazan and Bobbeau.
I'm willing to wait until HT&L is finished before I see a single extra feature added to the SCP, it will give me some time to catch up with the current updates and see how they can be implemented ingame at the very least

Flipside

[KARMA]

Originally posted by Venom
well, that was obvious there is an internal forum, when you see new posts on the main forum page, but none in the forum itself, that means  someone posted in an internal forum.
d'uh.

venom- Poirot:drevil:
and it is obvious that they need an internal forum, I mean, this forum is a bit too messy to be possible to technically discuss of code here, and a forum is for many people (like me, for example, for many reasons)  faster and easyer than emails or chat

[Setekh]

Originally posted by redmenace
You guys find the balance, I am just doing what I do best: pointing out the obvious that and making a rucous.

And, believe it or not, I appreciate you for it. I'm glad we've reached something of a consensus though - and I'm sure the coders appreciate your willingness to help (even if your hardware is a bit outdated).