[Galemp]

Su-Tehp's a lawyer...

*goes to PM him*

[Kazan]

nice

[redsniper]

wow... I just read the whole thread and there's some pretty exciting stuff going down. to Kazan for finding that (c) abandonment loophole thing.

[Su-tehp]

Originally posted by Galemp
Su-tehp's a lawyer...

*goes to PM him*

Um... gleep!

Ok, I just read the entire thread (well, most of it, anyway, but I did read just about everything on the legal issues on this thread), but I want to remind all of you (especially Galemp) of some reasons of why I am hesitant to provide legal advice here: 1) I JUST graduated from law school; 2) I didn't study Intellectual Property law, except in only the most rudimentary of methods (i.e. just the VERY basics as part of my first-year Property law class, and that was almost three years ago) and I have absolutely NO experience whatsover in practicing Intellectual property law; and 3) I barely understand the the goals of the SCP project but have absolutely NO idea how it works.

*imitates Dr. McCoy's voice: "Dammit, Jim, I'm a lawyer, not a computer programmer!"*

All that being said, it DOES seem on the face of it that Kazan has a point: you might be able to make a good case that Interplay has abandoned the trademark. HOWEVER, keep in mind, that is not coming from ANY sort of legal analysis on my part; it's just what my legal instincts are telling me. (And in the law, the skill of slinging bullsh!t counts more than either analysis or instincts.)

The next step that I would recommend would be for someone who is involved and/or understands how the SCP project works to consult an IP (Intellectual Property) lawyer and explain the situation as detailed as possible. Since Steak seems to know the situation better than anyone, I would normally recommed him to do this. However, IIRC, Steak lives in Australia, not the USA, which makes any lawyer he consults at his home outside the jurisdiction of the USA, so said lawyer will also have to be well-versed in International IP law that is probably well outside his normal field of jurisdiction. This wouldn't make Steak's consultation useless by any means, just that it might be a bigger headache for him to consult a lawyer than it would for someone else involved in SCP who lives here in the USA.

Thus, I think Kazan would be a better choice to consult a lawyer. He lives here in the States, he came up with the idea that Interplay may have (deliberately or inadvertently) abandoned the trademark so he seems to have a good grasp of the legal issues involved, and he knows about the SCP and how it works.

As a result, I think Kazan would be our best candidate to consult an Intellectual property lawyer about the issues we're coming up against. However, I don't know if asking a lawyer about our situation is going to cost any money; I don't know if a prospective client is supposed to pay anything for the first consultation session he has with a lawyer. (That's how clueless I am about this biz. It's not like I'm going to become a solo practitioner anytime soon, for crissakes'. And only the most bizarre and unforseen whims of capricious fate could get me into IP law...)

Kazan, here is a website for looking up lawyers in the United States (look here). Just select which state you live in (Iowa, right?) from the USA pull-down menu and look up the Intellectual Property lawyers. You're going to find a list of several IP lawyers, I expect.

I don't know if any of them will charge for a first consultation session, but at least this will give us a place to start.

EDIT: Okay, Kazan lives in Cedar rapids, Iowa. There's no IP lawyer selection for Cedar Rapids, so my next suggestion would be to look up the Products Liability lawyers; they might know about Intellectual Property disputes. Kazan, at the very least, you can e-mail one of them, explain the situation and ask if we might encounter any legal problems down the road. If they can't answer your question, ask them for a referral to another lawyer who can. Your talking/e-mailing themshouldn't cost anything, but ask if it does before you say anything, just in case.

The last thing I want to do is inadvertently stick you with a $200 consulting fee bill...

[Kazan]

actually i live in ames, i could theorectically ask the law department here ... /me hmms

good to know a lawyer thinks i have a case (even if it's not his speciality)

i've been watching legal issues for a long time now, and my older brother wanted to be a lawyer for a while so he got well versed, and him and I talk about intellectual stuff quite when we're around e/o so what one knows the other ends up knowing a lot about.

[Setekh]

Originally posted by Su-tehp
*snip* This wouldn't make Steak's consultation useless by any means, just that it might be a bigger headache...

Woo... hoo!

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter, Su. You found a lawyer yet, Kazan?

[J3Vr6]

Last time I consulted a lawyer the initial consultation was free.  Basically just heard the case and saw if I had a shot or not.  Then he told me his fee if he was to take the case and we took it from there.  And always try to negotiate, just cuz he's a lawyer doesn't mean he'll give u his lowest fee up front.   My two cousins are lawyers, but criminal and immigration, not intellectual

Kazan:  If you're in college, i'd say try going to the business department and ask one of the professor's that teaches business law, he might know something.  If your school has a law school, even better  professor's won't charge to give a student advice and he'll prob be able to give u a beter grasp of the law and even recommend one to you.

In any event, good luck and keep us posted on what you find out!

[kasperl]

i could try to get a friend to ask his parents (one judge and one lawyer, IIRC) about this, but IIRC both of them are specialised in small cases like people sueing over garden fences placed wrong. if someone else has a better idea, i won;t bother him, since i don;t know him that well. but if you guys can;t find anything else, tell me, and i'll ask him.

[wizz33]

mayby  the fsf will help
They have at least good knowlage about IP low thanks the SCO v IBM case

www.gnu.org

[phreak]

Originally posted by kasperl
...but IIRC both of them are specialised in small cases like people sueing over garden fences placed wrong...

and i thought we sued like crazy..  unless this is a matter of feet/meters.

[kasperl]

yeah, it's meters.

and i think damaga cases like people crashing into parked cars and stuff. basic civil ****, but all AFAIK and IIRC. i'll ask him monday if his parents know anything about that.

[Su-tehp]

Originally posted by kasperl
yeah, it's meters.

and i think damaga cases like people crashing into parked cars and stuff. basic civil ****, but all AFAIK and IIRC. i'll ask him monday if his parents know anything about that.

This sounds like small claims law, the law's version of nickel and dime stuff, really. I'm just saying, is all.

[kasperl]

that's what i mean, i'm just not so good in english law  terms, or law terms in general.

[Setekh]

Okay, an important update. Dakota replied me.

[q]To: "'Eddie Woo'"
Subject: RE: A feature: full download of FreeSpace 2 Open

Hi Eddie,

Thanks for taking the time to do all of that research.  The information that you found answers almost all of my questions.

Based on the highlighted text, I honestly do not think there is an issue with offering the beta to a group of subscribers.  The EULA prohibits users from selling the software or making the software a value-add for a larger retail product or service.  It really doesn't address the situation where a group of subscribers is given the opportunity to beta test software before its free, public release.  The beta test is not bundled with the subscription itself.

That being said, I don't want to try to talk you into something that you are not comfortable with.  I'm happy to help you with the public release of FreeSpace 2 Open.  We can post it to FilePlanet whenever you are ready.  I would just ask that you give it to the FilePlanet team directly so we can add it to the main system.  I try to keep a Zero Wait-Time on the hosted site system, and an 800 MB release would be too much for it to handle without creating wait-times.

BTW, one of our customer service team members sent me a link to the thread in your forums about possibly moving off the network.  It would be a shame to see your team leave, but you are naturally free to leave at any time.  We strive to make the network a good home for everyone.  It is impossible to satisfy everyone's individual needs, however, so it is not uncommon for sites to move on and off the network.  I would just take exception to the idea that GameSpy is a faceless corporate entity that is entirely consumed with profit.  We do a ton of things that are purely for the benefit of gamers, from free website hosting to free mirroring of every gaming file submitted.  J

Darren L. Tabor
Executive Director, Subscription Services
-------------------------------------------------------
Tel: 1 949 798 4206     Play Games - GameSpy.com
Fax: 1 949 798 4299     Technology - GameSpy.net
E: [email protected]   Corporate - GameSpy.org
-------------------------------------------------------
GameSpy Industries - your gaming service provider.
18,000,000 installs, 18,000,000 monthly readers.
[/q]

[Lt.Cannonfodder]

Wohoo!  If this is true, things are looking very good for FS2 and SCP.

My only problem is the fact that only subscribers get their hands on it. I hope this will chance sometime in the future?

[Sandwich]

Seems to me he doesn't comprehend that FSO will, essentially, always be a beta release. Yeah, we have EXE's being released every few months, but they aren't part of some package that Joe Nobody can download, run the install, and enjoy the FSO goodness. :-/

[Setekh]

Originally posted by Lt.Cannonfodder
My only problem is the fact that only subscribers get their hands on it. I hope this will chance sometime in the future?

Dude? Subscribers aren't the only ones who get their hands on it - it's a delayed full-public release. Go read a few pages back if you haven't already.

Originally posted by Sandwich
Seems to me he doesn't comprehend that FSO will, essentially, always be a beta release. Yeah, we have EXE's being released every few months, but they aren't part of some package that Joe Nobody can download, run the install, and enjoy the FSO goodness. :-/

The whole reason I started this was because of Fractux's work a few weeks ago to make that exact thing possible... Remember?

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by Setekh
The whole reason I started this was because of Fractux's work a few weeks ago to make that exact thing possible... Remember?

Remember? How many times do you see me having posted in that thread, hmm?

[Setekh]

Hah, I looked at the wrong thread. Keep up, Mike.

[karajorma]

Basically the subscribers get the beta of Fractux's work not the SCP's. Sounds reasonable to me.

They still get access to Fractux's FS2 Install before everyone else does and the SCP still gets to carry on their work unimpeded. They also get the latest stable build as part of the overall package. The rest of us still get to download it seperately.

Personally I think that Fractux's install alone is enough to keep the subscribers happy. Although it won't contain anything new the way he's working to bring everything together into one easy to use package is something worth having.