[Stealth]

What joysticks do you guys use?  Post a picture of them:
Mine:


Primary(Logitech Wingman Force)


Secondary (Logitech Wingman Warrior)

[kasperl]

that first one.

[mikhael]

Let's see. I have one of these:


And one of these:


And two of these:


Unfortunately both sticks are broken. My intent is to replace that whole setup with one of these:

Sure, its $269. But that's a small price to pay for ultimate control.

[Odyssey]

[color=cc9900]Saitek X45 (HOTAS system, with rudder paddles on the back of the throttle):

Cost me £50 ($80 or so), and worth every bit. It's got enough buttons to drown a cat. And, if you use the mode switch to triple-assign the buttons, three cats. Mikhael, I'd seriously urge you to consider one of these rather than the cougar, it's one hell of a lot cheaper and it's one hell of a lot better.[/color]

[Jonathan_S47]

Saitek X36

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Odyssey
[color=cc9900]Saitek X45 (HOTAS system, with rudder paddles on the back of the throttle):
Cost me £50 ($80 or so), and worth every bit. It's got enough buttons to drown a cat. And, if you use the mode switch to triple-assign the buttons, three cats. Mikhael, I'd seriously urge you to consider one of these rather than the cougar, it's one hell of a lot cheaper and it's one hell of a lot better.[/color]

Yeah, its cheaper, but it sucks ass by comparison.

From top to bottom, the construction of the Saitek is cheap and feels flimsy, while the Cougar is made of aircraft aluminum (17lb of it to be precise). On the Saitek, the springs and throws are all loose and mushy, while the Cougar has tight, strong springs and a smooth, solid throw. The Saitek has fewer hats (two less) and missing buttons (There should be one under the ANT knob) . The Saitek has that annoying missile button molly guard.
Then there's the whole programmability issue. The Thrustmaster HOTAS products are insanely programmable, up to and including running SCRIPTS and specifiying custom response zones for the axes. Speaking of axes, there's EIGHT of them.

Sorry, the X45 is a pathetic excuse for a HOTAS. It is firmly, squarely in the realm of 'game stick' trash.

[diamondgeezer]

Ph34r

[Odyssey]

[color=cc9900]mikhael, it's also $160 cheaper, by my reckoning. Mine is built solidly, the spring on the stick is very powerful, I count 4 hat switches and 6 axes (who needs more?), and the rudder paddles are extremely useful. Programmability is also there, you can create scripts and assign response zones for axes, and much more, just as you said. As for the little missile guard, I like it personally, but if you don't, just flip it back against the metal stand part and tape/glue it on. Or cut it off completely. There's a fair amount of metal in the damn things too, which gives rise to their weight.
So, um, are we talking about the same joystick here, or are you misinformed? Bearing in mind I own one?[/color]

[TopAce]

If the question were: 'Post a picture about the thing you play FS2 with', I would say: 'You can imagine a keyboard, can't you?'

I had(a long ago) a Quickshot 4-button 2-axis joystick. But it went our of stability and performance after years of X-wing playing.

I personally hate FS with joysticks, so the joystick is not the thing I deeply miss. I would rather have a pretty girlfriend.

[mikhael]

Having carefully examined the X45 in person, I have to say that if you think its got a solid throw or the springs are powerful, you've got weak arms or you haven't used a real, honest to goodness proper HOTAS stick.

A proper stick and throttle has, at the minimum
6x 8way hats
6x buttons
1x 2position trigger
2x analog knobs
2x 3 position switch
6x axes

Additionally, you must, at minimum be able to bind six different functions to each button, hat direction and hat rest position. You must be able to bind to button PRESS and button RELEASE. You must be able to send raw keyboard scan codes. Buttons must be aware of and respond to the state of other buttons. For axes, you must be able to define the throw down to the individual step--even if what you put there doesn't necessarily make sense in terms of an axis throw (for example, throwing far left all the way not only rolls you left but cuts your forward thrust and engages your right lateral thrusters , while firing your retros). You must be able to choose pure digital or analog for your axes. You must be able to assign an axis to BUTTONS instead of an analog throw.

No other stick and throttle meets all of those criteria.

Yeah, I've messed with the X45, and it just doesn't even come close.

Oh yeah: none of that force feedback crap. I hate that in a stick.

[Lynx]

I don't have a photograph handy, but I'm using a Logitech Wingman Extreme Digital 3d. It's very good and another plus is that it's so heavy that it can be used as weapon:D ...........

[Drew]

[Martinus]

[color=66ff00]Got a sidewinder force feedback pro (see other thread ), bloody brilliant stick, really good to play podracer and anything flight related (getting knocked around by beam cannons is... interesting ).

Also got a saitek p150 pad, good for fighting games and my snes emulator.
[/color]

[Odyssey]

Originally posted by mikhael
Having carefully examined the X45 in person, I have to say that if you think its got a solid throw or the springs are powerful, you've got weak arms or you haven't used a real, honest to goodness proper HOTAS stick.

[color=cc9900]If you insist. But, I'm perfectly happy with what mine is, so I won't argue on preference.[/color]

A proper stick and throttle has, at the minimum
6x 8way hats
6x buttons
1x 2position trigger
2x analog knobs
2x 3 position switch
6x axes

[color=cc9900]The Saitek X45 has almost all of that. Except the 2-position trigger and two of the hats. Remember the price difference, though.[/color]

Additionally, you must, at minimum be able to bind six different functions to each button, hat direction and hat rest position. You must be able to bind to button PRESS and button RELEASE. You must be able to send raw keyboard scan codes. Buttons must be aware of and respond to the state of other buttons. For axes, you must be able to define the throw down to the individual step--even if what you put there doesn't necessarily make sense in terms of an axis throw (for example, throwing far left all the way not only rolls you left but cuts your forward thrust and engages your right lateral thrusters , while firing your retros). You must be able to choose pure digital or analog for your axes. You must be able to assign an axis to BUTTONS instead of an analog throw.

[color=cc9900]All check. Using old versions of the programming software, though. For some reason the newest non-NT versions don't support all the functions. But then, I haven't checked recently. They've probably fixed it by now.[/color]

No other stick and throttle meets all of those criteria.

[color=cc9900]Not quite, no, but $160 extra for a 2-position trigger and two hats?[/color]

Yeah, I've messed with the X45, and it just doesn't even come close.

Oh yeah: none of that force feedback crap. I hate that in a stick.

[color=cc9900]What force feedback?[/color]

[Kamikaze]

I've got a Saitek X45 and Logitech Wingman. The Saitek's fine for me as I'm not willing to pay that much (more like I can't), but it is a bit too flimsy. I keep tipping it over.

[Flaser]

Saitek Cyborg Gold AKA 3D.

It is simple single stick with 4 axes.
One expression summarises it's beauty:adjustable ergonomy
Another it's faults:cramped button layout
A deciding factor:price

I'm satisfied with this stick I bought it to replace my old Quickshot Super Warrior (that's one hell of a stick in its own category), and move on to a purely digital device.

It's precise, and although not necesserily the best, the spring and suspension of the stick are smooth and handy, unlike the Logitech rubber ring - I had my troubles with the Wingman Warrior - NEVER AGAIN!

The downside of the Cyborg is the button layout - it's impossible to handle with a single hand, so I'm practicly down to 3 axis and 4 buttons + 1 hat, instead 2*8 buttons.
The problem is that it's not enough to map everything and I like  to have my hands near the apropiate contol all the time.
The problem is due it's extreme ergonomy - it can be tuned to anyones had - left hand's included.....so the buttons aren't set up for your pinky....

[Admiral LSD]

I used to use a Logitech Wingman Extreme Digital 3D but, as I said in Maeg's thread, it's rotation has never worked and the throttle has just started to go. I'm thinking about replacing it with either Logitech's Freedom 2.4 cordless stick or their 3D Pro stick (links in Maeg's thread). I'm leaning toward the latter though since it's AUD$50 cheaper and doesn't have any batteries to keep replacing. Another Extreme 3D is tempting (it's the same price as the 3D Pro) but with only 8 buttons it's next to useless for keyboard-independent FS playing

[mikhael]

Odyssey, I pay for quality.

Yes, another $160 dollars ($269 total) is worth it for a stick with that many more axes (its got two more), that much more programmability (no, the Saitek cannot come close to the Thrustmaster for programmability. See below. No other consumer stick does. I've done my research), and the right feel (The Cougar is an authentic F16 stick and throttle, molded straight from the official USAF specifications. Its made of 17lb--yes POUNDS--of aircraft aluminum).

Between the two previous Thrustmaster sticks and two previous Thrustmaster throttles I've owned over the past eight years, I've spent over $600. I run these sticks into the ground. Yeah, it might seem expensive to you, but I don't spend lots of money on top of the line graphics or sound cards, nor the fastest processor, nor the most memory. I save that money for my HOTAS gear.

When I fly, I don't even have a keyboard on my desk, nor a mouse. I put everything into the stick and throttle. My hads are always on the controls--all the controls. I don't have to reach for a keyboard for some obscure command, because its already right there under my fingertips.  The X45 isn't capable of that. By losing two hats, you lose 96 possible functions (108 if you map HatCenter, but that's just fruity). With the X45, you don't have the rich programmability. Can you make the trigger ask what particular combinations of other buttons have been pressed? Can you make the throttle react differently based on the position of a hat? Can you convert the X and Y axes to U and V axes with just a button press? No, you can't. Its not possible with any version of the Saitek programming software. It is possible with the Thrustmaster though.

Let me put it in another way, a way a modder might understand. I could spend the money on 3ds Max or Lightwave, or I could settle for Truespace3.  Sure, Truespace3 is cheaper, but Lightwave (or 3dsMax) is the Right Thing.

So yeah, the HOTAS/Cougar is worth $269, but the Saitek X45 is not worth $75, my opinion.

[Drew]

Originally posted by mikhael
Sure, its $269. But that's a small price to pay for ultimate control.

your gonna pay that much for a ****ing joystick? you dont have much of a night life do you mik....

[Martinus]

[color=66ff00]This thread is giving me the 'My stick is bigger than your stick' vibe.
[/color]