[Sandwich]

Uhh.... yeah.

Just was speaking to Kazan about this issue - he suggested that perhaps the problem is not that the perspective in-game is wrong, but that the ships really are smaller than reported. We all know that 20 TS units are translated into 1 FS unit during conversion of a model, so perhaps the ships in FS2 are actually 20 times smaller than they should be.

[Carl]

well, in that case, do what i suggested earlier.

[Sandwich]

Ok, I think I figured out the problem, with Kazan's help.

I took my test scene, which had models accurate to the meter, and scaled them down 20x. Then I took a 45 degree (~43mm) camera, and walla - the Deimos and Fenris looked exactly the same as they do in-game - same perspective, same apparent size, everything. (I'll post a screenie in a few minutes.)

So basically, FS2 renders "meters" as 20 times smaller than they should be. While this does not affect ship interaction or anything, it does affect the simulated FOV/lens diameter.

So I scaled the test models back up 20 times, and  suddenly it was almost realistic. The problem was that the camera made things seem too close for the distance, like it was zoomed in. So I changed the camera to a 35mm (FOV 54), and finally, the 747 looked like I was standing there, in person, looking at it.

So now the question remains: is there any way in the code to deal with this 20x scaling issue? Because if we can do that all in the code, without having to reconvert any models, then that's 90% of the problem solved right there. The other 10% would be setting the default FS2 FOV to be 54 instead of 45.

[TrashMan]

Hmm...there should be a way to do it in the code...
It seems logical (just use every coordinate parameterx20)

[Odyssey]

[color=cc9900]Sandwich, I saw the difference, I was just trying to explain how in the real world what you had been showing was not physically possible, and that something had gone wrong somewhere.
But, anyway, now you've found the problem, it's a moot point eh?[/color]

[mikhael]

So, out of curiosity, how can we fix the problem? Fix the 20x scaling Sandwich mentioned, or what?

I ask, because, well, I've just started replaying Tachyon: The Fringe again, now that I have a decent stick. They got the whole scale thing exactly right: flying along the surface of a giant station feels like you're  a very small person in a very large world. Interestingly, fighters that are far away are very small and very hard to hit. Shocking.

[jdjtcagle]

YESSSS!!
See what people can accomplish when they put there minds to it!!
Hope it can be fixed.
We are not worthy :thepimp:

[terren]

Any clue when we could expect this?  It would be nice to see the ships actual size

also that comparasin with the galaxy class starship, it realy makes me want to go against them.  Ulisses vs defint, that would be a fun battle.

[KARMA]

Originally posted by Odyssey

[color=cc9900]Bummer, he's got further than me... Ah well, I'll stop then. Only half an hour lost ^_^ I really ought to check long threads more often, but it's so much nicer when cool stuff goes in individual threads.[/color]

don't give up odyssey:
I'm not 100% sure about how my model will work in game, due to the way I built it, so if it will have problems, there still will be yours.
Plus, this could be the chance to have 2 diffetent models for fenris and leviathan

[Flaser]

BTW some graphics guru/animeka could make a comparision chart showing an average human (180 cm) and some fighters next to each other.

That could come handy for designers whenever they want to scale things properly - not to mention if someone tried to do internal design for a ship.

[Nico]

Well, that's nopt exactly it, but you can try that already:
http://www.merzo.net/index.html
Anyway, what I do is just build the ship around the cockpit, then it's no biggie to scale the ship according to a human.

[TrashMan]

Well...if eversthing else fails one can allways re-scale all the ships....

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by Flaser
BTW some graphics guru/animeka could make a comparision chart showing an average human (180 cm) and some fighters next to each other.

That could come handy for designers whenever they want to scale things properly - not to mention if someone tried to do internal design for a ship.

Those decks are 2.5 meters high.

[Setekh]

Did we ever get further than this?

[Nico]

I guess not, since those pics are ollllllllld

[Sticks]

If someone wants to run through the code and multiply by twenty EVERY time a distance or coordinate is used, be my guest. You should only have to change about 2000 or so lines, provided you can find them all.

[Kamikaze]

I think that although implementing this now may be hellish and should be put aside, it should be put on the wishlist for Fe2.

[Flipside]

I'd do it if I knew what I was looking for and how

[mnftg64]

how about those screenies of you seeming to stand at the 747 renders sandwhich? I would like to see how you figured out the problem.

[Sandwich]

It's simply a 28mm lens with the objects all scaled to the proper sizes.

The line of tanks goes back to directly under the 747.