Author Topic: Ready to move to the US?  (Read 6091 times)

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Offline Nico

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Quote
Originally posted by Beowulf

Fatal gun accidents involving children (aged 0-14) also fell significantly, from 495 in 1975, to under 250 in 1995. More children die from accidental drownings or burns than from gun accidents


I'll just take a part to make it shorter, since you like numbers. W00t, only 250 in 1995. In a country where guns aren't allowed, it's about 0.
Accidental drowings or burns are way enough, imho :doubt:

Oh, and:
Quote
Originally posted by Beowulf
(2) Criminals commit the overwhelming majority of gun crimes.


No **** Sherlock.
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Offline Beowulf

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Quote
Originally posted by Nico


I'll just take a part to make it shorter, since you like numbers. W00t, only 250 in 1995. In a country where guns aren't allowed, it's about 0.
Accidental drowings or burns are way enough, imho :doubt:

Oh, and:

Originally posted by Beowulf
(2) Criminals commit the overwhelming majority of gun crimes.


No **** Sherlock.


This is EXACTLY the type of flawed logic that is just drives me crazy. You look at only one number and isolate that. Did you compare that to the lives saved by defensive gun use? No. Just form whatever opinion you want by taking bits and pieces here. If you ever took the time to absorb the whole arguement you would realize guns accomplish more good than ill. :rolleyes:


~Beowulf

EDIT: About the criminals... It means BEFORE the incident of gun use. Hence, already criminals when the crime was committed. You're obviously not that stupid.

BTW they're called facts, not numbers.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2004, 03:14:36 pm by 1189 »
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Offline magatsu1

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I'm not "for" guns but gun crime in the uk is up but the olympic/comonwealth/whatever shooting teams can't pratice in blighty 'cos of current legislation.

I like the protection against goverment bit though. What a brilliantly contradictive idea.
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Offline Nico

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Quote
Originally posted by Beowulf


This is EXACTLY the type of flawed logic that is just drives me crazy. You look at only one number and isolate that. Did you compare that to the lives saved by defensive gun use? No. Just form whatever opinion you want by taking bits and pieces here. If you ever took the time to absorb the whole arguement you would realize guns accomplish more good than ill. :rolleyes:

 


Ok, then, so I like the "regardless of any weapon the offender has" part, that makes it sound like the guy could and is most likely armed with a spoon ( altho it's turned out to mean that firearms wielders can frighten other firearm wielders, oh the irony. The dude who wrote that down is very good with words btw, I concede that ). Yeah right. I wanna have number comparisons with a country where firearms aren't allowed, and where offenders don't all have access to firearms and hence are less likely to do ( fatal ) injuries. Your stats are darn biaised, you realise it?
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Offline aldo_14

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Quote
Originally posted by Beowulf
on Immigrants = Good

on Citizens = Bad

Wall between US and Mexico = Uber Good


Isolationism = good for rest of world

Apparently.  Whatever happened to 'Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free".  Do you forget that the US is a nation of immagrants?  The only native population are the Native Americans / Red indians, and they're pretty much gone thanks to the genocide persued against them in the 1800s.  Not to mention that the Us probably depends on low paid economic migrants for the majoirty of low-levle, low paid 'service' jobs? (as does the UK.... if you took away the migrants - illegal or otherwise - the economy would probably collapse)

Secondarily, on the subject of gun control, I had a big argument against it (living in Scotalnd, the Dunblane massacre gives me a skew on this, and I'm proud our nation was intelligent enopugh to respond and ban them).... but sod it.

Answer this - is there a good reason for legalising gun ownership?  i.e. the ownership of a device with the express & sole purpose of causing injury or death when used as intended?

Secondly, could this reason not be extended to other lethal weapons or devices, such as biological weaponry (i.e. mustard gas instead of CS gas spray)?

 

Offline Solatar

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2nd amendment says something like:

A well armed/trained militia is essential to a stable country (something like that) the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

That's the basic idea of it anyway...but the entire thing gives reasons about milita.

 

Offline Knight Templar

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Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14


Isolationism = good for rest of world

Apparently.  Whatever happened to 'Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free".  Do you forget that the US is a nation of immagrants?  The only native population are the Native Americans / Red indians, and they're pretty much gone thanks to the genocide persued against them in the 1800s.  Not to mention that the Us probably depends on low paid economic migrants for the majoirty of low-levle, low paid 'service' jobs? (as does the UK.... if you took away the migrants - illegal or otherwise - the economy would probably collapse)

Secondarily, on the subject of gun control, I had a big argument against it (living in Scotalnd, the Dunblane massacre gives me a skew on this, and I'm proud our nation was intelligent enopugh to respond and ban them).... but sod it.

Answer this - is there a good reason for legalising gun ownership?  i.e. the ownership of a device with the express & sole purpose of causing injury or death when used as intended?

Secondly, could this reason not be extended to other lethal weapons or devices, such as biological weaponry (i.e. mustard gas instead of CS gas spray)?


Yes, closed borders are deffinitely a bad idea.

I know the Californian Enconomy in particular is dependent on immigrants, illegal or otherwise. Specifically, without Mexican immigrants, our agricutlural economy (not to mention other jobs such as retail, food, etc.) would collapse and we'd be even more fuxored.
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Offline phreak

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ant zhen ahnold vould blow aahp ze vall
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Offline Stryke 9

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Beo: You think I like the Democrats? You haven't been paying attention.

However, they're a manageable evil. One that plays by the rules and can be dealt with. And they're ****in' spineless to boot, which is always nice in a dominant party. If I had a real option, I'd go for "bloody insurrection", but I don't. Can't even get the lazy ****ers I see these days to picket, for chrissakes.

Since when did Bush ever bring us out of a recession? Excuse me, but the economy's if anything more ****ed up than it was after the crash. And if changing the name of a Christmas tree is really the best you can come up with, particularly given the excerable things Bush has done involving gay rights in the name of his personal religious beliefs, maybe you had best take another look, hm?

About the guns: One in four non-hunting uses of a gun is for criminal purposes. Your statistic. Since rifles and shotguns are perfectly adapted to hunting, far better than, say, the sorts of weapons people typically use for "personal defense" and crime (rifles are a bit too hard to move around to be effective in crime unless you're shooting the wife at home or something), we can say then that roughly 1/4 of pistols used are used as aids to murder, rape, robbery, and basically any other unequivocally wrong crime you can think of. More isn't okay if it's not more by much, as the evil of a gun in the hands of a psychopath far outweighs the good of one in the hands of a responsible person.

You think that's a good ratio?


Rest of gun law: Yeah, right. You know how much money is spent every year on banning, say, I dunno, drugs? Funny, you wouldn't know it, it's easier for me to get an eigth than a good-quality vodka. Criminalizing gun ownership would just make gun owners criminals, wouldn't make every pistol in the country up and dissapear, and once a criminal you've got far less to lose in committing other crimes. You think gun crime is bad now? Imagine when all the gun nuts in the country (not even dealing with the regular owners, the guys who have like a freakin' class 3 in their yard must at least number in the tens of thousands. Lucky bastards.)

Besides, you're missing the point of the Second Amendment. Guns are a deterrent, but not particularly so to crime. A tyrant in a well-armed country is a dead tyrant, and there are few governments so stable that the threat of tyrrany isn't a pressing one.

Don't like guns? That's okay, you'll probably never see a real one then, unless you live in the country or spend time in a sporting goods store. Some of us would prefer to have them, and you'll be damned glad of it if ever more serious trouble than a recession happens. Personally, I can't see how anyone could trust cops with 'em, the pigly thugs they are in my experience, without wanting one themselves. But then, at least half of the gun-related deaths in my home area came from the piggies.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2004, 11:41:38 pm by 262 »

 

Offline aldo_14

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"It's amazing I won. I was running against peace, prosperity, and incumbency."

(George W Bush speaking  to the Swedish PM on 14 June 2001, unaware the cameras were rolling)

On a similar note, the US election was billed - in the Uk - as being between a stable, successful economy (Gore) and a personality (Bush).  That'll be the good old redneck vote shining through, then.  Well, <50% of it, anyways.

 
This issue(gun control) comes up every few years, stagnates, and dissappears only to reappear in a few more years.  Americans will not give up their guns or their second amendment rights.  To think differently is foolish.


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Offline karajorma

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Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Don't like guns? That's okay, you'll probably never see a real one then, unless you live in the country or spend time in a sporting goods store. Some of us would prefer to have them, and you'll be damned glad of it if ever more serious trouble than a recession happens. Personally, I can't see how anyone could trust cops with 'em, the pigly thugs they are in my experience, without wanting one themselves. But then, at least half of the gun-related deaths in my home area came from the piggies.


That why the police in the UK are unarmed. Instead a specially trained subset of the police are allowed access to guns.

The reason why you can't do that in America is cause of the easy availability of guns. If the police were unarmed it would be a massacre.

Stryke you comment about a well armed general population being a deterant to a tyrant is obviously rubbish. Most of the countries in the world that are run by a tyrant have a far higher level of weapons ownership than Europe or Japan. There are plenty of guns on the streets of Iraq yet they had a tyrant rule them for two decades.
 Maybe that's why it was originally put into the constitution but it's obvious that it doesn't work. Besides America is currently descending into tyrany and yet the last president to be successfully killed was a liberal and the most popular president of the last century!
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Offline Nico

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We already know that, but we like arguing over pointless topics :D
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Offline Styxx

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What's really funny is that Brazilian airports are now taking photos and fingerprints of all incoming american citizens. But only americans. :p
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Offline aldo_14

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muwhaha.

(that was how i first heard of this, actually.  The Uk is exempt, because...er...all our terrorists are happy blowing up stuff or spraying ricin gas in London)
« Last Edit: January 07, 2004, 10:46:34 am by 181 »

 

Offline Nico

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Quote
Originally posted by Styxx
What's really funny is that Brazilian airports are now taking photos and fingerprints of all incoming american citizens. But only americans. :p


lol :D
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Offline Gloriano

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Quote
Originally posted by Styxx
What's really funny is that Brazilian airports are now taking photos and fingerprints of all incoming american citizens. But only americans. :p


:lol: :D
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When in despair I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won; there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall.- Mahatma Gandhi

 

Offline Pez

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Quote
Originally posted by Styxx
What's really funny is that Brazilian airports are now taking photos and fingerprints of all incoming american citizens. But only americans. :p


:lol: Funny. I also heard that some americans have been interrogated. Styxx, you better watch out for all those fearsome american terrorists.

 

Offline mikhael

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Well yeah. You gotta watch out for americans. They're the only people in the world who have ever detonated nukes, and on two civilian targets at that. Dangerous, those americans. ;)
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Offline vyper

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Now thats poetic justice.
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