Author Topic: For the Dems and non-citizen liberals  (Read 24647 times)

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Offline Grey Wolf

For the Dems and non-citizen liberals
Because it's propaganda designed to brainwash you means you aren't supposed to think while reading it.
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

 

Offline mikhael

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For the Dems and non-citizen liberals
Liberator, until you're one of us, I don't want you speaking for us military folk. Its offensive.

US soldiers and sailors are honorable and noble--if you look at us in the aggregate. Once you start looking at individuals, we're a pretty screwed up bunch. The cream of society doesn't join the military, you see. They're the ones in nice houses, in nice neighborhoods, with nice cars and nice jobs, sneering at us, the soldiers when we ask to get treated better, or get better pay, or get funding for anything other than guns and ammo. The vast majority of the military, at least in the enlisted ranks, is made up of people from poor black and hispanic neighborhoods.

Liberator, let me tell you a little story about US Soldiers and how 'honorable' we are. See, I was stationed, among other places, in Japan. Whilst I was there, three marines kidnapped, raped, and murdered a twelve year old girl. Whilst I was there, two sailors stabbed their wives to death. One airman drowned his child, intentionally, at the base pool. American servicemen stole cars from japanese parking lots and sold them to japanese chopshops. US sailors on one base beat two guys from the JMSDF (Japanese maritime self defense forcE) so badly that one ended up in a coma (he eventually recovered) and both were returned to civilian life on medical discharges. At the same air base, more than 120 sailors were put out of the navy and remanded to civilian authorities for making and selling crystal meth.

EVERYONE illegally sold food and clothing on the black market. See, food at the base commisary and clothing at the base exchange were sold at US prices. The japanese have to import the same stuff from the US and it gets taxed by the japanese government. We could sell a $50 pair of Levi's for $300 easy. Rice? Man we got 25lb bags of rice for $4.50. The japanese paid $55 for the same bag. Cigarettes and alcohol were likewise excellent items.

All of that happened in peace time, away from anything remotely like a danger zone. If we soldiers and sailors do that kind of **** in a friendly country, I don't think we'd hesitate to do far worse in a hostile land to anyone who got in the way.

I'm not saying all soldiers and sailors are animals, but enough of us have impulse control problems, that I have absolutley no doubt that, training or no, religion or no, laws or no, they'll do absolutely EVERYTHING described by Mr. Kerry. Combat, especially the kind of combat seen in Vietnam, does terrible things to a man's sense of self and sense of civilization.

Incidentally, I asked my father, a vietnam veteran who doesn't like to discuss his time there, if any of what Mr. Kerry said was true. Like  Mr. Kerry, my father has a purple heart, only his has several stars on it. He just looked at me when I asked, and said alot of it was. He won't tell me which parts though. He's never been keen about talking about the stuff he saw in the jungle.
[I am not really here. This post is entirely a figment of your imagination.]

 

Offline Gank

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For the Dems and non-citizen liberals
Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it.  
-George Bernard Shaw.

 

Offline Gank

  • 27
For the Dems and non-citizen liberals
Even better one:
Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country
- Hermann Goering

 

Offline an0n

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For the Dems and non-citizen liberals
All soldiers, by definition, are retards.

I'm sorry, but it's just a simple fact. They're the people who can't get a real career so join the armed forces because they'll get tons of cash, travels the world and get to kill things.

These are the people who, if unchecked, either snap and go on a killing spree or are basically just football hooligans in a uniform and rape every Vietnamese villager in sight.

There are, however, some who join because they genuinely do have a sense of honour and want to make the world a better place.

These people die within the first 5 seconds of any combat. If life were a movie, these people would be the token black guy.

The only real hope of any army are the sycophants who're in it for the sense of order, power and focus that command of a unit/division/brigade/etc gives them.

These are the people who will burn an occupied orphanage to the ground if they're ordered to. The people who will do anything and everything within their power, ability and current operational scope to win the fight.

Because, while in an ideal world it would be nice to think every solider had the honour of a nun and the compassion of.....err....a nun and no matter how worthy the goal it would be unthinkable that it could possibly be worth ending a human life to achieve, in the real world the ends ALWAYS justify the means.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
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Offline an0n

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For the Dems and non-citizen liberals
And 'patriotism' is the just a politically correct term for 'nationalism'.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline Bobboau

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For the Dems and non-citizen liberals
you do know that mikhael up there was a soldier.
you have been paying atention right?
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Offline an0n

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Yeah, what's your point?
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline Bobboau

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For the Dems and non-citizen liberals
no, point, just wanted to make sure you knew.
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DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline an0n

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For the Dems and non-citizen liberals
Unlike God, Bush and Martha Stewart; I know all, I see all.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline Liberator

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For the Dems and non-citizen liberals
Your cynicism appalls me an0n.
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 

Offline an0n

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For the Dems and non-citizen liberals
Your presence appalls me.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline Janos

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For the Dems and non-citizen liberals
I was in the army also!!!1

Yeah, Finnish mandatory service. Served as a mech infantry AT-NCO :rolleyes:. Even being totally different place than US army, all armies are still essentially the same - they listen what politicians tell them, get there, blow some **** up and shoot the bad guys and want to leave as soon as possible. Great rhetorics over goals, accomplishments and ethics are all bull****.

As to what an0n said - I have to disagree. For what little knowledge I have of US army [which I try to gather as much as I can, because I have a huge raging hard-on for war techs], I am under impression that US Army gathers quite a lot of people who go there to do something completely different and to get cash for college or something else. Escapism ahoy!, since doing something like this still appeals all of us. Were it not that, we wouldn't play Freespace. Granted: some people want to shoot and play with guns with almost fetisist approach, but not all of them. Labeling is always somewhat repulsive to me; a heterogenic institution like an army should definately not be labelled due to units it is consisted of, but of principles it works on and actions it takes. That is almost anti-Liberator. Hurr.

The cold facts, however remain: military is a place which is about to kill people, but not one of cruelty and sadism. And to make this initally repulsive idea work, there must be someone who gives orders and someone who follows them. Honour and code of conduct may remain, but they must not interfere with the mission.

And Liberator; circumventing debate by such lame ways will not increase your credibility. :D
lol wtf

 

Offline Rictor

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For the Dems and non-citizen liberals
Quote
Originally posted by Liberator
Your cynicism appalls me an0n.


Shouldn't that be Vasdudan? Or is my memory playing tricks on me again.

And anon, don't flame. I don't give a **** if you think you are entitled to, you're not.

________

Following orders is not a valid excuse. If someone tells you to carry out an order which you know to be wrong, legally and morally, it is your duty to disobey. Soldiers choose to be there, on the battlefield. Civilians do not. So in my book, that makes the lives of the civies more valuable than the soldiers. How anyone can still throw around words like honour, duty and justice after mowing down village is beyond me.

What bothers me is how well, obvious, the truth is, and yet how steadfastly people ignore it. They want to ignore it, and go through great efforts to conivince themselves that soldiers are something other than killers.

And does anyone see something wrong with a world where Goering's stamement can be applied to our current time and current events and is found to be true, and no one gives a ****?

 

Offline Bobboau

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For the Dems and non-citizen liberals
killers, defenders, it's all a matter of perspective.
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DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline Janos

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For the Dems and non-citizen liberals
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor


Following orders is not a valid excuse. If someone tells you to carry out an order which you know to be wrong, legally and morally, it is your duty to disobey. Soldiers choose to be there, on the battlefield. Civilians do not. So in my book, that makes the lives of the civies more valuable than the soldiers. How anyone can still throw around words like honour, duty and justice after mowing down village is beyond me.
[/b]

Granted. Actually in every respectable army (I will now contradict myself and exclude some African ragbands from this definition... Oh ****, another contradiction.. :nervous: ) if soldier's given illegal, cruel or sadistic orders, he/she MUST refuse.

But under wartime situation weird things happen. People tend to forget ethics and morality, because the situation they're in is so goddamn ****ty. Anthony Glover tell is "Humanity" what happened in My Lai village, where ordinary guys and soldiers from USA turned into somekind of beasts, compulsory read.Or better; go to www.ogrish.com and do a net search of ofex.avi or something like that (warning: will ruin your life). If you strip your opponent of humanity and grace, which is very basics of warfare, you're just provoking cruelties to happen.

Quote
What bothers me is how well, obvious, the truth is, and yet how steadfastly people ignore it. They want to ignore it, and go through great efforts to conivince themselves that soldiers are something other than killers.

And does anyone see something wrong with a world where Goering's stamement can be applied to our current time and current events and is found to be true, and no one gives a ****?


Well, no. :D Because it's always been true. It's just that Hermann Göring, a notorious fat NSDAP [nazi] boss saying it gives it a much creepier tone than some random leftist/rightwing populist/angsty emo blurting it out in your local newspaper's sunday part.

Edit: vB code, once again.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2004, 04:44:12 pm by 1621 »
lol wtf

 

Offline Rictor

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For the Dems and non-citizen liberals
Well actually, even defenders are killers. But I would be much, much more tolerant and respectful of US soldiers if the majority, or even a portion, of the conflicts in which the fought over the past 50 years had anything to do with defending America. But, as you know....

When was the last time America had foreign troops on it land? The War of 1812 or something like that? And you think its perfectly acceptable to have bases in 130 foreign nations despite the fact that you would never, ever allow one of your soil. Hmm....

 

Offline Janos

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For the Dems and non-citizen liberals
Realpolitik ahoy.
lol wtf

 

Offline Bobboau

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For the Dems and non-citizen liberals
as I said a matter of perspective

"When was the last time America had foreign troops on it land"
oh, 9-11 man :D
c'mon, you didn't see that comdeing?
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DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline aldo_14

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For the Dems and non-citizen liberals
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
as I said a matter of perspective

"When was the last time America had foreign troops on it land"
oh, 9-11 man :D
c'mon, you didn't see that comdeing?


I thought terrorists were independednt of state..... because 15 of the 19 terrorists inbvolved in 9/11 were Saudi Arabian, after all.

And besides which, terrorists are not troops - otherwise they wouldn't be declared non-combatants and chucked in Guantanamo Bay with no regards to the Geneva convention, would they?