[Martinus]

[color=66ff00]Bob, look up material by a guy called Steven Pinker he's a language specialist that puts forward some pretty good arguments for genetically determined morals.

Pretty scary when you think that people can be simply 'born bad'.
[/color]

[an0n]

That's like saying "Some people are born good runners".

It's like 10% nature, 90% nurture.

[Nico]

I think An0n ( what the hell An0n means, anyway? ) put it up well, in fact. It's as new as water on Mars

[Kazan]

an0n: running ability is probably MUCH closer to 50/50


intelligence is 50/50

[an0n]

Just because a computer has a 10Ghz processor doesn't mean the ****ty programming can run without stalling.

Sure, genetics might make it easier for you to learn, but that doesn't mean everything you learn is going to increase your intellect.

[Kazan]

an0n: *rolleyes* yes and yes

intelligence is known ot be 50% genetics 50% whether you freaking use it or not

[an0n]

........Intelligence is entirely environmental.

And the genetics-to-intelligence thing is more of a modifier than a percentage, but that's just semantics I suppose.

[Grug]

an0n I think you might of contradicted yourself there at one point...

If humankind were mostly instinctual and genetics being the main charge of behaviour, then we'd also be predictable.

Free will is something that goes against predictablity. If you cloned a child from birth. Brought them both up in exactly the same way, IE put em in identical rooms, interactions with others is done by actors with exactly same names, same reactions... etc
Would these clones be the same person? Would they make the same choices in the end?
Most probably similar but still they are different people.

This gets into the argument that there is a body a mind, and then the soul which is there but not there yet is what makes us unique. If you believe in the soul concept then, technically, true Artificial Intelligence isn't possible. If your a mind/body person then true AI is an acceptable possibity...
If a true AI was made tommorow, can you imagine the aftershock this would have on many religeons around the world?
Personally I don't think its possible with 1's, and 0's... If they find a way to emulate the brain tho... who knows... bio computers is the next step in tech I reckon...

Though you do have to be curious about identical twins feeling each others pain, and also know what their choices would be. There is usually a dominant twin and another. The non-dominant one  recognises what choice the dominant one would make and then makes a different one out of a desire for individuality...

I watched this documentory on these monkeys that lived in a city somewhere in India. Anyway, it would be a group of females and 1 king male. These outcast males living outside the city, banded together and then chased him out into being an outcast all for the right to breed with the females. Then 1 of the outcasts became 'king' and chased all the other outcasts out. Then he killed all the children of the previous king and breed to make his own. The female monkeys resistant at first but week later they were all kissing his feet, and grooming him...
Survival of the fittest...? Is that how it goes?

Just remember that woman in human society used to be the same a while back, and still are in some society's. (Japan, Afganistan for example are male dominant societies...)
So is this human behaviour evolving? or is it woman becoming more male like to 'survive'? Its only in the past few centurys or so that the first woman were allowed in parlimant etc.
lol they're still not aloud in some golf clubs...

I myself, am half atheist, I believe in a 'possibility' of an all powerfull being exists... Religeon is a powerful tool. But at heart I do believe that everything in Bible was manmade...

Morals are what allow societies to exist. There is always some form of honour code, or rules emplaced... otherwise it just wont survive. Canibals for example, didnt all rush in and eat each other... They formed understandings not to eat healthy ppl in their tribe etc...

Many interesting things...

lol I always get drawn into these discussions...

-Grug

[mikhael]

For all its other flaws, I'll suggest everyone go read Dawkins' "The Selfish Gene" AND a text a good text on game theory.

Between those two things, you can pretty much explain morality in terms of evolution, without really having to put morality into the genes, per se.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by mikhael
For all its other flaws, I'll suggest everyone go read Dawkins' "The Selfish Gene" AND a text a good text on game theory.

Between those two things, you can pretty much explain morality in terms of evolution, without really having to put morality into the genes, per se.

I keep recommending the Selfish Gene.  (I can't find my copy but am I mistaken in thinking that one of the Wilsons mentioned is the same one Dawkin's lambastes for talking about creatures doing things for the good of the species?)

[Grug]

I'd recommend 'Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy', has some interesting views, and is a good comical book anywho.

-Grug

[Ghostavo]

Interesting articles, keep them coming please.

What about inter-species morality questions? Do they apply here?

[mikhael]

Originally posted by karajorma


I keep recommending the Selfish Gene.  (I can't find my copy but am I mistaken in thinking that one of the Wilsons mentioned is the same one Dawkin's lambastes for talking about creatures doing things for the good of the species?)

Possibly. I have to say, I agree with Dawkins on that score.

The funny thing about The Selfish Gene was that I picked it up and I started reading it in the bookstore and I was like, "OMG! I wrote a book and didn't know it!" Well, not really. But I did see a lot of resonances between Dawkins' theories and my own meandering thoughts about the nature of generosity, charity and love, etc.

[karajorma]

It's a great book and the best thing about it is that although lay people can understand it I know some people doing a PhD in biology who don't understand the subject as well as I do even though all I did after simply reading it and The Blind Watchmaker (admittedly they didn't cover evolution much but still!)