[kasperl]

Originally posted by Liberator
Understand, the word that is causing Mr. Newdow, which BTW judging from the fact that he isn't married to his daughters mother is a Red Diaper Doper Baby, "god" is in the lower case.  That tense of the word is a generic term refering to whatever higher power the reciter pays heed to.  In Mr. Newdow's case probably his dope tree in his backyard.

Also, it was the removal of Christianity from the public mind that has resulted in a country of such low moral and ethical standing as we have now.  

Before
children had respect for their parents and themselves
children weren't drugged to make them easier for lousy teachers to control and indoctrinate
the divorce rate was single digit or low teens

[/b]
Children respecting their parents was more due to corporal punishment being accceptable, IMO.
Whoa, what do you think i've missed?
Yeah, well, was that for fear of being ejected from society or from love? Also, rape inside the marriage was a lot more acceptable....

Now
teen pregnancy is at an all time high
one in two marriages fail
the abuse of chemical depressants on spirited children is ruining the next generation

yeah, 'cause who's telling them about what happens when you put tab A in slot B?
People are just more williong to give up, since they know they can get out of an unhappy situations without being denounced from society
once, again, Woah dude, what's going on there? you mean sugar and sweeteners? that **** does make people go hyper, you know...

[Rictor]

You say "generation of loose morals"
I say "open minded and tolerant of others"

Same difference. I do not see how respect for parents and teenage pregnancy are indicators of morality, and indeed how the first can be quantitatvely measured.

As for drugs, I would encourage you to please keep and open mind towards things which you do not know. To label them collectively as "evil" basically shows that you know next to nothing about them. "Drugs" such as marijuana are no more deadly than cigarettes, and the mind-altering effects are minimal. In addition, it does not build a chemical addiction, the same cannot be said for cigarettes. In every way that matter, marijuana is less evil than cigarettes.

The death toll from all illegal drugs is around 16,000 per year. For cigarettes, this is around 400,000 (not pinpoint numbers, but generally correct). Now you tell me, which is the greater social ill? Why are  cigarettes legal and heroin is not.

In the end, no one can make that choice but the person themself. You can not legislate private morality. Look at Holland. They allow marijuana use, and their society is perfectly  normal, and most likely a better place to live in than the US. People are too busy living life (did I mention the legal prostitution) to be hateful or intolerant.

[kasperl]

Originally posted by Rictor
The death toll from all illegal drugs is around 16,000 per year. For cigarettes, this is around 400,000 (not pinpoint numbers, but generally correct). Now you tell me, which is the greater social ill? Why are  cigarettes legal and heroin is not.

[/b]
Can someone look up the death toll for overweight, please?

In the end, no one can make that choice but the person themself. You can not legislate private morality. Look at Holland. They allow marijuana use, and their society is perfectly  normal, and most likely a better place to live in than the US. People are too busy living life (did I mention the legal prostitution) to be hateful or intolerant.

Marijuana is indeed legal here. Not completely, and if you carry more then a few grams, or have more then 3 or 5 plants (i forgot) you still get busted. But not nearly a majority uses the stuff, as far as i can see. Even thos that occasionally do, most of them are no more addicted to it then to cigarettes and the envirment around the stuff.

Prostitution is legal here too, but i want to note that basic welfare makes sure that no one is forced to go that path.

Morals here are indeed not much lower then anywhere else, as far as i can determine. We have had a government stressing "Value's and Morals" the last couple of years. Not much has improved. Off course, we have a bit of street crime, and off course, there are some racial issues. But generally, most people are tolerant of anything that does not directly harm anyone, and teen pregnancy's are relatively low. Every high school students get's basic sex ed in second year (13-14). Everyone get's  shown a condom, get's shown clear images in textbooks of reprodutive organs, and the exact way they work. There is also plenty of mentioning of alternative ways of birth controll, and of homo and bi sexual people.  In the end, there is just as much a test on it as on the working of photosentyses. The chapter after that is a clear text on the effects of alcohol and drugs. both social and physioloical, and explenations of how they look. The "good" effects are mentioned right a long with the bad, and while there is off course a notion of moderation, there is nowhere near a constant yell of "SEX IS EVIL, DRUGS ARE EVIL, ALCOHOL IS EVIL, DO NOT TOUCH IT".

[Rictor]

Damnit, if you guys had some more sun, I'de be there in a second. Oh and, there are government bikes that are free to use on the streets, as long as you return them, right?


Especially on the prostitution issue. Its legal if you want to, but the prostitutes are not forced into it by crap welfare. Where as in most other countries (including Canada to some degree), its the exact opposite. Low wages and welfare, and on top of that its illegal.

Legalizing prostitution benefits both parties. The prostitutes get organized unions, so that they have basic rights and are protected from abuse by pimps and assholes, while you get the advantage of them being tested for STDs so that you are better protected. And, you don't have to feel guilty that you are buying  a prostitute, since you know that they are there by choice.

wait, this started as a thread about the Pledge of Alliegance, and now we're talking about Dutch prostitutes.

ok, yeah, this is more fun. :D

[Liberator]

Marijuana has a greater concentration of cancer causing agents than raw tobacco.

I wasn't referring to reefer however, I was thinking of prescription meds like Ritalin.

[Petrarch of the VBB]

But when is raw tobacco smoked? It's always mixed with endless other ****e.

[Flipside]

And a lot of that ****e is far far more toxic than anything found in cannabis....

< Picks up his Golden Virginia packet >

Benzene
Nitrosamines
Formaldehyde
Hydrogen Cyanide

Yummy!

And that's rolling tobacco, which is usually 'cleaner' than the preservative treated, chemically dried tobacco they use in Malboro etc.

[Rictor]

As for the Ritalin, I do agree with you. Though I would say that it is more the fault of lazy parents who want their kids sedated or otherwise engaged, so that they don't bother them. The tiniest deviation from the social norm is treated with the all-ecnompassing "here's some pills, that should help". Lets kids be kids, and if they turn out crappy, its the parents' fault.

[Flipside]

Parents drug their kids in America?

Dear Lord, no wonder the amount of Heroin and Cannabis users in America is on the increase! Talk about 'Start em young!'

[Petrarch of the VBB]

Mind you, Golden Virginia does smell very nice.

[Flipside]

hehehehe And it's amazing how few people ponce cigarettes off you in the street

[Petrarch of the VBB]

I've never understood why people want to set fire to it. I was quite happy to sit at college sniffing at an empty Golden Virginia packet...

[Flipside]

And this never prompted visits to see some nice people?

[Zeronet]

I bet if equal amounts of people did heroin and tobbacco, the death toll would quickly stack up on the side of heroin.

Btw, doesn't US money say " In God We Trust" ?

[Flipside]

Actually, I'd say that depends on dosage, there are people that have been Heroin and Opiate addicts for decades, and just not been stupid enough to OD. Put them next to someone who's smoked for decades and see who gets up the stairs first

[Rictor]

And if I had wings I could fly, but you know... I dont'.

It is very unlikely that were heroin (and extreme example) were to be legalized, anywhere near as many people would use it as use tobbaco. The fact is, people realize that it is a much more dangerous and mind-altering substance, so the vast majority of them stays away from it.

[Kazan]

smoking should be banned - if you want to chew it fine, it's only affecting you

[Zarax]

Meh... Home-made alcoholics are better than any drug...
Come in Sardinia and you will see (or better, taste) what i mean...

[Flipside]

All I'll say to banning smoking is that you would do far far greater good by banning driving in cities. The pollution level in London, which, while being one of the more polluted cities, is not, I think, a terrible offender, is enough to equal 15 cigarettes a day for everybody. Secondary smoking adds up to about a quarter of a cigarette a day maximum unless smokers are putting themselves in close proximity. If that's the case, then I will agree that you do not deserve to be breathing their smoke.

[Ace]

Originally posted by Zeronet
Btw, doesn't US money say " In God We Trust" ?

Yeah, that was added during the cold war along with the "Under God"

Really, my issue with the "Under God" thing is how arbitrarily it was added in. It had nothing to do with spirituality, etc. it had everything to do with: "KILL THE COMMIES!!!1111oneoneone"


Anyways, Lib will you share some of that Jesus-dope you're smoking? It looks like it's potent mind-effecting stuff. (Quick! Someone photoshop a reefer with a halo!)