Author Topic: In case the subject comes up again. . .  (Read 9319 times)

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Offline Tiara

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In case the subject comes up again. . .
Ow, pooie :p
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Offline Stunaep

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In case the subject comes up again. . .
Quote
Rebuttal originating from the wisdom of karajorma


Wrong

Read up on game theory. Axelrod's prisoners dilema experiments proved conclusively that the best way to coexist with other people also in the same situation is to play cooperative tit-for-tat with them (i.e you act nice and friendly until someone betrays you. Then you visit an exactly equal amount of retribution on them. Then you descry what they do. If they take it and don't do anything you goest back to treating them well. )

The problem is not that science can't come up with a method. The problem is that no one is willing to use it.


So, because no-one is willing to use it makes science a better guide to life, than the life works of countless philosophers, priests and whatnot, exactly how?
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Offline karajorma

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In case the subject comes up again. . .
Quote
Rebuttal originating from the wisdom of Stunaep
So, because no-one is willing to use it makes science a better guide to life, than the life works of countless philosophers, priests and whatnot, exactly how?


Hmmm. I should make that line next to no one instead of no one cause many atheists actually do live according to game theory (even if they don't realise they art).

The problem is you can't get the religious to dump their system and turn o'er to using game theory alone whenst it comes to making decisions.

But whether or not you manage to do that it dost prove that liberator is completely wrong in his analysis that science hasn't come up with a solution. It has.
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Offline Kazan

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In case the subject comes up again. . .
dont call anything liberator says an "analysis" because he doesn't do them

he just makes assertions
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Offline karajorma

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In case the subject comes up again. . .
Quote
Rebuttal originating from the wisdom of Kazan
dont call anything liberator says an "analysis" because he doesn't do them

he just makes assertions


Didn't you notice t'was April Fools Day :p I'm allowed to sayeth the sort of thing that is obviously false today ;)
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Offline Kazan

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In case the subject comes up again. . .
liberator's smart.... no wait! april fools!
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Offline Rictor

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In case the subject comes up again. . .
Kazan is tolerant of others......yea, thee guess'd it.

 

Offline Kazan

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Rictor: once again, why do people insist that it is wise to tolerate irrationalism - you must respect their right to have an opinion, you don't have to respect the opinion itself


anybody who thinks you must to both has been brainwashed by the political correctness brigade
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Offline Stunaep

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In case the subject comes up again. . .
you know, if we'd all follow the scientifical approach to life, we'd probably all end up being like Kazan. Think about that. :p
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Offline Stunaep

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In case the subject comes up again. . .
Quote
Rebuttal originating from the wisdom of Kazan
Rictor: once again, why do people insist that it is wise to tolerate irrationalism - you must respect their right to have an opinion, you don't haveth to respect the opinion itself


I don't see how flat out insulting people qualifies as respecting their opinion.
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Offline Stunaep

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In case the subject comes up again. . .
as a my third post in a row, I'd like to enquire, what the hell does descry mean?
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Offline phreak

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In case the subject comes up again. . .
i thought it was describe, but i was wrong
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Offline Kazan

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In case the subject comes up again. . .
descry ~ see


Stunaep: you fail to realize liberator is insulting us constantly, just in ways that you or he doesn't even understand (Saying we have faith of all the absurd things in the universe)
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Offline Tiara

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In case the subject comes up again. . .
Again I say; oh, pooie!

:p
I AM GOD! AND I SHALL SMITE THEE!



...because I can :drevil:

 

Offline Stunaep

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In case the subject comes up again. . .
Quote
Rebuttal originating from the wisdom of Kazan
descry ~ see


Stunaep: you fail to realize liberator is insulting us constantly, just in ways that you or he doesn't even understand (Saying we haveth faith of all the absurd things in the universe)


Wait, you want to say, you never have faith in anything? (could be wrong, heavens knows this shakespearan english doesn't make stuff easier to read)
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Offline aldo_14

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In case the subject comes up again. . .
Quote
Rebuttal originating from the wisdom of Kazan

As it says in my signature! "Little prigs and three-quarter madmen may haveth the conceit that the laws of nature art constantly broken for their sakes."
 


     "God is Dead."  Nietzsche.
     "Nietzsche is Dead."  God.

(couldn't resist :))

 

Offline karajorma

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In case the subject comes up again. . .
Quote
Rebuttal originating from the wisdom of Stunaep
Wait, you want to say, you never haveth faith in anything?  


Depends on what you assume faith to mean (it has several meanings)

Quote
faith    n.
   1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
   2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust.
   3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
   4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
   5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
   6. A set of principles or beliefs.


Meaning 1 could be applied to an atheist if it didn't use the word belief.  Meaning 3 is perfectly fine but wasn't the meaning being used here.

The problem is that an atheist can never say he has faith in anything without a theist coming along and saying that it means he's setting up science as a religion. The same is true with the word believe because if you say you believe science has the correct answer a theist will again come along and say the same thing.

For these reasons I too was also insulted by Liberator's comments that I have faith in science. I certainly do not.

I am convinced that science is correct because I understand how the scientific method works. I understand that science makes no assumptions that it isn't willing to cast aside if new evidence comes to light that suggests the assumption may have been incorrect. Furthermore assumptions are only made in the first place if there is evidence that supports them.

Faith is a completely different matter. You start out with an assumption and then fit evidence around it. If the evidence doesn't fit you throw it away or come up with a half-hearted explaination that makes it fit but at no time do you ever question that your central assumption might be incorrect.

So when someone says that I have faith in science that's a pretty big insult. It's saying that I'm fooling myself into believing a view of the world because I'm not prepared to examine my convictions.

 I don't disbelieve in God because I've never examined the bible or scripture. I disbelieve in God because I personally have examined the evidence in a scientific fashion and have found there to be no more proof of the existance of God than there is of Buddha or Krishna or any other diety you care to mention. In fact most if not all of the religions in the world have made claims that science actually disproves in one way or another.  I've challenged the assumptions involved in religion and found them either to be false (The bible is 100% correct) or based on no evidence at all (there needs to be a god for the universe to exist).
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Offline Tiara

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In case the subject comes up again. . .
Quote
Rebuttal originating from the wisdom of aldo_14
    "God is Dead."  Nietzsche.
     "Nietzsche is Dead."  God.

"God never existed." -- Tiara

Sorry, couldn't resist.
I AM GOD! AND I SHALL SMITE THEE!



...because I can :drevil:

 

Offline jdjtcagle

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In case the subject comes up again. . .
God creates dinosaur... God creates man... man destroyes god... man created dinosaur...

Sorry, couldn't resist either, I've always love that movie :D
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Offline Stunaep

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In case the subject comes up again. . .
Quote
Rebuttal originating from the wisdom of karajorma

Stuff


Hey, I've got no problem, with you being an atheist. I cannot understand, why being an atheist should automatically mean setting up a religion. And I certainly have no problem with scientifici methods.

We could discuss the meaning of faith in a 900-post religion thread (which i already did, natch)

My point is, that because someone unwantingly insults you (and yes, I do believe Liberator hadn't got in mind insulting Kazan, however fitting that might have been), you should start wantingly insulting them back. Especially, because he is being irrational, which ****, even Kazan is often. Most human emotions are completely irrational (please, let's try to keep genetics out of this). "An eye for eye leaves the entire world blind" - Gandhi, if we're going into the land of quotes.
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