[aldo_14]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3598219.stm

Madrid 'ringleader' dies in blast
The alleged ringleader of the Madrid attacks is named as one of the suspects who blew themselves up in a police raid.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Liberator
No I don't.  I would be quite happy to allow them to live in peace so long as they leave us in peace, as would everyone else in the world.  They are the ones forcing our hand, not the other ####ing way around.  You're fooling yourself if you believe otherwise.

Want to hear something funny? They did leave us alone, until the USA stuck their nose in everyones business, now we got terrorism problems.

Why is this happening? because the US is acting like the big bullies on the block, only problem is they cant even protect their own soil, and now have CAUSED THIS ENTIRE PROBLEM SINGLE HANDEDLY!

US foreign policy the last 4 years alone has made terrorism the western hemisphere's worst threat.

Should of just left the arabs and their oil alone, but you just couldnt do it could ya.

[Liberator]

Wrong Lonestar.

It wasn't US policy in the last 4 years that led to terrorism.  It was the complete ineptitude of the Clinton Administration at Mogadishu and in responding to the first attack on the WTC and the attack on the USS Cole that led to the attacks on 9/11/2001.

We didn't do anything except threaten their little ego-maniacal "empire" with the concepts of liberty and by showing the populace of the region that they can have more than what the bastards at the top deign to let them scrape together.

You and your kind are exactly the kind of people the terrorists(all of them) want, the kind who will give them what ever they ask for just so they won't attack you.  This is the wrong way to deal with them.

[Ace]

Originally posted by Liberator
It wasn't US policy in the last 4 years that led to terrorism.  It was the complete ineptitude of the Clinton Administration at Mogadishu and in responding to the first attack on the WTC and the attack on the USS Cole that led to the attacks on 9/11/2001.

BLAME IT ON TEH CLINTONS!!!! YAYS! RHETORIC!!! YAYS!!!

Liberator's canned rebuttal: OMFG J00 EVIL LIBERALL!!!!

[vyper]

Ye that sums it up I'd say Ace.

The mistake the US made was trying to treat the world populace like idiots by one minute saying they were out to democratise countries like Indonesia, Iraq, et al and then another minute admitting things like the new american century project.

People can take attempts at global domination at face value and go - fair play we'd do it too given the chance, we'll just have to make sure you don't achieve it.

However, when you pretend to be doing something completely different and treat any nation that opposes you as irrelevant and "old europe protecting it's interests" like you have moral authority to do so - there begins the problem.

Altho I should say: To hell with the arab terrorists - do what you like to them IF THEY ARE GENUINELY TERRORISTS AGAINST DEMOCRACY.

[Liberator]

Info on New American Century please, I am unaware of it.

The only reason Euros and Leftist like Clinton is because he Brown-Nosed his way around.  The reason Euros and Leftists don't like the current American President is because he's not a brown-noser who kisses butts to make people happy.

[Zeronet]

Mad dog Liberals, Mad dog republicans, Mad dogs.

[vyper]

Originally posted by Liberator
Info on New American Century please, I am unaware of it.

The only reason Euros and Leftist like Clinton is because he Brown-Nosed his way around.  The reason Euros and Leftists don't like the current American President is because he's not a brown-noser who kisses butts to make people happy.

What made Clinton a brown nose? What makes **** not?!

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

And read the details Lib, preferably without screaming the words "leftist" at anyone who inteprets it badly while doing so.

[aldo_14]

Main reason Euros don;t like the current president is because he has all the intelligence of a toasted crumpet.

[Ace]

Originally posted by aldo_14
Main reason Euros don;t like the current president is because he has all the intelligence of a toasted crumpet.

Nah, the act of toasting gives the crumpet more intelligence through osmosis...

[Zeon]

Ok I'm about to open a huge can of worms but if it wasn't for Americans laying down their lives in two world wars then where would the world be? I dont agree with everything my goverment does but I sure as H*** dont like what the UN does when they beg us to help keep the peace in places like Bosnia and other places and then basicly say that were a sorry goverment when some back water third world dic*head wants to make trouble for us. As far as I am concerned the US should kick out the UN and shut our borders til another dictator threatens the world and tell them you got yourself in this mess so get yourself out, we are not about to send our sons and daughters to get them selves killed for a bunch of ingrates. We have taken so much sh** just because we decided to help people and others countries are too damn greedy or jealous for the attention.

[Rictor]

Clinton..hmm lets see:

Bombed and sent troops into Bosnia
Bombed and sent troops into Kosovo
Bombed Iraq
Sent troops into Mogadishu
Bombed Sudanese asprin factory
Presided over Iraqi and Cuban sanctions
Continued support for Israel, running counter to numerous UN resolution
Presided over unprecedented expantion in "globalization" style capitalism
Continued support for dictators from Uzbekistan to Saudi Arabia

oh yeah, a real dove. With friends like him, who needs enemies.

[vyper]

Forgetting the typical ww2 comments for now.... Zeon, the _UN_ doesn't actually ask for US help - we're "given" it whether we want it or not.

About the toasting.... does that mean we should shove tony and george in a Toastie maker?   Who likes cheese filling?

[Rictor]

Zeon, during the Clinton years, America WAS the UN. No one ever came begging to America to go into Bosnia, it was a US initiative. Same thing with a number of other military interventions. Only now that Dubya has taken over, do we see the UN disagreeing with America. This doesn't mean Clinton's policies were significantly different than Dubya's, its just that he knew how to manufacture consent among the "unruly masses" of the UN.

And, excuse my ignorance, but wasn't there also one or two other countries involved in WW2, other than America. I vaguely remeber the Russians sending a few troops, and Britain may or may not have dedicated a few planes to the cause. Probably just my memory playing tricks on me.

[vyper]

Actually Zeon to address your point about the sacrifice made in ww2 by US troops.

Yes the US was a key ally of the UK and occupied mainland european nations. However, by your logic let's look at an analogy.

I save a group of young school girls from a burning building. I am teh **** hot hero. Now, years later they're 18 and I take one out, date rape her and then claim she was just too drunk to remember consenting. Oh and btw I have so much power no one can question my story.

Replace me with the US and the girls with the rest of the world and well.... you see where I'm going.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Zeon
Ok I'm about to open a huge can of worms but if it wasn't for Americans laying down their lives in two world wars then where would the world be? I dont agree with everything my goverment does but I sure as H*** dont like what the UN does when they beg us to help keep the peace in places like Bosnia and other places and then basicly say that were a sorry goverment when some back water third world dic*head wants to make trouble for us. As far as I am concerned the US should kick out the UN and shut our borders til another dictator threatens the world and tell them you got yourself in this mess so get yourself out, we are not about to send our sons and daughters to get them selves killed for a bunch of ingrates. We have taken so much sh** just because we decided to help people and others countries are too damn greedy or jealous for the attention.

Yes, and there wouldn't be a US if the French hadn;t provided support to them colonists during the civil war.  What makes this less relevant than WW1 or 2, i wonder?

Also, have you ever considered the Us has taken '****' because it was just_plain_wrong? Especially over Iraq, a country now gone to hell in a handbasket?

[Grey Wolf]

I seem to remember our most significant contributions being in WW2, with us not even getting into Europe until a few months before the Armistice for WW1. And our main support in WW2 being in manufacturing capacity in the first few years.

Also, let's play "Find the **** Administration" on this page.

[IceFire]

The short list of countries involved in WWII:

- Czecheslovakia
- Austria
- Hungary
- Romania
- Italy
- Poland
- Germany
- France
- Great Britian
- Canada
- Australia
- New Zealand
- Russia (the Soviet Union)
- China
- Japan
- Brazil
- Mexico
- United States

The list goes on...

[aldo_14]

Hence the therm 'World War'

[karajorma]

I'd never heard of mexico's involvement in WWII. What did they do?