[aldo_14]

I don't think we should let our foreign policy be dictated by terrorists..... avoid unnecessary wars like Iraq, yes, but we also need to keep fighting any form of terrorism*.

On the subject of Iraq and Afghanistan, I don;t think there's an option to pull out - we (in this case the US and UK) ****ed up these countries in the process of invading them, and we have a responsibility to repair that damage and actually allow these countries to forge their own path. (the problem is, that there is a lot of rebuilding still required to allow these countries to be able to run themselves)

You have to ask why Bin Ladin wishes a truce, anyway.  Possibly it's a form of political pressure, or maybe (and I hope this is the case) Al-Queda is actually being hurt by police operations in europe (i.e. rounding up the cell in Madrid, or the similar arrests in the UK).  Of course, there's also the side that, if the Us is left alone in Iraq / Afghanistan and eventually forced out (i.e. humiliated), then there would be a power vacumn that could be filled nicely by bin Ladin or asimilar fundamentalist, i.e.  the return of the Taliban to afghanistan.

Regardless of the above, IMO this 'offer' will almost certainly not be accepted - because to do so would be an implicit admission that the Uk (in particualr) had been attacking Muslims.

*not the good old(current?) US method of creating a big burning pile of martyrs' bodies without addressing the grass roots reasons - but rather working to both dismantle terrorist organisations whilst also resolving the ethnic, religious and political reasons these organizations were founded and by which they draw strength.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Originally posted by Liberator
You realize they are lying, right?

an0n, cooperating with the EU is killing Britain faster than anything else.  I don't consider Britain part of Europe and you shouldn't either.

bull****. Britain is part of Europe, it always has been and always will be

anyway: everyone thinking this "peace-offer" is genuine (i.e. genuine as in: there will be everlasting peace with these piece of **** terrorists) is criminally naive.

There can be no peace with Bin Laden and his ilk... ever.

Anyway, no one will consider it anyway.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Originally posted by karajorma


Still this isn't something that should just be ignored and forgotten about.

yes it is.

iirc, the coran itself says there can be no peace as long as there are places that don't fall under muslim rule (and we don't want that do we?).

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80
There can be no peace with Bin Laden and his ilk... ever.

20 years ago people said the same about the IRA and look at things now. Leaders of the IRA like Gerry Adams are actually part of the power sharing schemes running in Northern Ireland.

Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80
iirc, the coran itself says there can be no peace as long as there are places that don't fall under muslim rule (and we don't want that do we?).

Yet more rubbish from someone who hasn't read the Koran.  Where do you people get this **** from anyway?

The bible says all kinds of stuff about false gods and people who believe in them but I've never once heard anyone point to America and say they'll never be peace in the world because the bible says everyone should be christians.

It's a load of xenophobic nonsense. Most muslims are quite happy to live in peace with other religions as long as the other religions leave them alone.

[Rictor]

Stop spilling our blood so we can stop spilling your blood

Good man. Thats by far a smarter statement than I could ever hope to hear from Blair or Dubya.

[Rictor]

Originally posted by Liberator
You realize they are lying, right?

an0n, cooperating with the EU is killing Britain faster than anything else.  I don't consider Britain part of Europe and you shouldn't either.

I always marvel at your arrogance. You think that just because you came along one day and said "Old Europe, New Europe" you can change something thats been around for 1500 years? Europeamn countries have FAR more in common with each other than with America. You're just trying to play off of Britain's ego and say "you're better than them, they're destroying you, come join us".

Get a clue. The British people don't want any part of your little imperial adventures. They more or less hate America. Its only the Labour government which supports you, against the will of its people.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80


bull****. Britain is part of Europe, it always has been and always will be

A thing only the Brits don't seem to realize... Quite funny to see them trying to deny their own history

[Bobboau]

I think the "not part of Europe" thing means idealogicly

"The tape also condemned the US-led occupation of Iraq as a money-making scheme for companies making weapons or aiding reconstruction efforts - specifically naming the American firm Halliburton."

were have I heard that before? hmmm...

well it looks like he is playing you all like a fiddle, oh well, good thing most nations are fairly well stuck were there going to be for the next few years.

[Rictor]

wait, so just because he sas something I agree with, he' playing me like a fiddle? I like you logic. I believed that long before he can around and said so. Just because he's a terrorist, you think that the only way to not be manipulated by him is to flatly disagree with everything he says? So if he says 2+2=4, I should disagree becuase otherwise he's playing me like a fiddle?

Hey look, the sky is blue! I've got you in my cluthes!

The reality is, Haliburton is indeed profiting nicely from Iraq. The fact that the Vice President and one of the chief hawks who pushed for war also sat on the Haliburton board of directors, thats got *nothing* to do with the fact that they're rolling in money from various no-competition contracts, right?

[Bobboau]

the "playing you like a fiddle" bit is from you're reactions to the 'offer'

[Rictor]

Alright, lets see here. America created bin Laden and Al Queda, you trained and armed them. Then, you supported (and still support) the regime in Saudi Arabia with the bin Laden family getting huge amounts of business coming their way. So, in a way, you're also supporting him financially.

Now, Osama hits your towers, and suddenly he's everyone's enemy? What he wants is US troops out of the Middle East. So do I. Why should I fight your enemy when I agree with his ends, if not necessarily him means. You can talk all you want, but I believe hes not out to kill or convert all Christians blablabla. He wants US troops out, thats not unreasonable. Now, he's offering Europe (too broad, but whatever) a truce. Alright, Serbia is part of Europe. He has never harmed, nor does he intend to harm say, France. Why should they put their citizens at risk for going after your enemy?


As I see it, bin Laden is America's problem. He is not a threat, not even a potential one, to most of Europe. Why shouldn't they accept the truce? The only attacks he has commited were against Americans, and he had a damn good reason for doing it. Now, before the whole lot of you start jumping up and down and yelling "terrorist lover", I'de just like to inform you that I think Osama is a fundamentalist asshole and ought to be shot. But, its not my fight, and I agree with reasons for fighting. Its retaliation for the heavy US presence in the MIddle East. Lets call it the invasion of the MIddle East. Same as in Iraq, an invaded people have a right to hit back.

[Janos]

The Truce Is Rejected.

[Rictor]

Pity.

[Bobboau]

they've threatened France, remember the head scarf thingy.

[Rictor]

Yeah, that was very stupid of France. Not due to bin Laden or anything, it was just a stupid thing to do. Thats quite clearly the opposite of religious tolerance.

[Gank]

lol truce.
Whats the bets theres going to be some bombs going off in some european countries in three months time?

[Bobboau]

yes, but he did threaten them, and they were someone, the only one, you specificly singled out as someone he "He has never harmed, nor does he intend to harm", people you don't intend to harm, you usualy don't threaten.

look, he is like an evagelist with a large milita, how would you feel about Billy Grahm with an army behind 'em.

[Gank]

Never threatened us, cant say this they hate the west **** goes down very well over here, seems like you're trying to drag us all down into the ****heap you've made.

[Rictor]

*shudder*

Well, considering **** is a born-again Christian, has massive support from the Bible Belt and has persued a policy very much in line with the wishes of the Christian right, I'de say we already have one.

But really, religion is just one subset of idealogy. Stalin didn't need religion to be a madman, ditto Saddam and most modern megalomaniacs.

[ionia23]

Originally posted by an0n
**** America, they're on their own.

We always were.

I've said it before, one more time won't hurt

"There's only one way to stop a terrorist: cut his head off." - James Woods