[mikhael]

Generally, I'm proud to be a veteran. Not, however, when it lumps me in with these bastards.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/30/iraq.photos/index.html

Just to head off the argument about authenticity, I'm assuming this is authentic. The President believes it authentic, and if anyone would deny something like this, it would be him.

[Rictor]

I look forward to hearing "just a few bad apples" ad nauseum in the next few days.

Bastards ought to be lynched.

[kasperl]

well, the lynching would start an outright war, as far there isn't one going on right now.

The Daily Mirror posting it, well, when was the last time there where really gory pictures and they didn't post them?

[Rictor]

Originally posted by kasperl
well, the lynching would start an outright war, as far there isn't one going on right now.

As well it should. No one believes what the Iraqis have been saying since the start of the occupation, it takes an American source + photos to put and end to that ****.

[Gank]

No they've been assigned to other duties.
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-us-iraq-prisoner-abuse,0,2346010,print.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines
Their defense seems to be they weren't told it wasn't ok to torture people

Anyways they're appointing the former head of Guantanamo as the new head of the prision, so conditions should improve

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-13075721,00.html
Not the first time the brits have been caught at this stuff either iirc.

[kasperl]

*finishes reading*


Well, I hate to say this, but is there any evidence that this is real? The pictures on the site are too low res to actually see something, but all I see is a guy with a bit of dark skin standing in a black sheet or something with a black hood on. The uniforms shouldn't be too hard to grab from some costume shop either. I can't really see how old the soldier looks, but I have my suspiciouns about the sources.


OTH, if this was real, it'd hardly be the first time this happened, now would it? I vaguely remember a picture of some poor kid being roasted alive above a campfire by some soldiers, either UN, US or some other western country.

[Rictor]

kasperl: happens all the time, just you don't hear about it. Thats what you get when you have a military force able to operate with impunity.

oh, just for reference, the guy in charge of the torture was a a prison guard before he joined the Army. Quite a coincidence, huh?

[kasperl]

Originally posted by Gank
No they've been assigned to other duties.
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-us-iraq-prisoner-abuse,0,2346010,print.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines
Their defense seems to be they weren't told it wasn't ok to torture people

Anyways they're appointing the former head of Guantanamo as the new head of the prision, so conditions should improve

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-13075721,00.html
Not the first time the brits have been caught at this stuff either iirc.

ok, I didn't read those before my last post.

Well, as far as these are reliable sources, it gained some credibility in my eyes. Still, I am hardly surprised by this. If it is fake, well, this was going to happen at some point anyway, and if it was real, well, what do you expect when you go along and demonize an entire country in the media for a fair few months before invading it with not so heavily trained soldiers. I mean, no offence to the military, I am sure they get weapons training and ****, but I doubt they get philosohy classes on the difference between attacking someone and treating him like an animal.

[kasperl]

Originally posted by Rictor
kasperl: happens all the time, just you don't hear about it. Thats what you get when you have a military force able to operate with impunity.

oh, just for reference, the guy in charge of the torture was a a prison guard before he joined the Army. Quite a coincidence, huh?

Dunno, once you get into one authoritarian position, you just want to roll into the next, aye? [ / cynisism]

[kasperl]

btw, i just thought of this after reading the BBC article on this. Someone said it was because the guards had no training or support whatsoever. Remember the Stanford Prison Experiment:
http://www.prisonexp.org/

(BBC article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3674355.stm )

[Gank]

Originally posted by kasperl
Well, as far as these are reliable sources, it gained some credibility in my eyes. Still, I am hardly surprised by this. If it is fake, well, this was going to happen at some point anyway, and if it was real, well, what do you expect when you go along and demonize an entire country in the media for a fair few months before invading it with not so heavily trained soldiers. I mean, no offence to the military, I am sure they get weapons training and ****, but I doubt they get philosohy classes on the difference between attacking someone and treating him like an animal.

You shouldnt need training to know that stripping your prisioners, putting bags over their heads and forcing them to simulate oral sex on each other while you took photos isn't ****ing allowed. Lack of training is a pretty ****ty excuse for being a sick bastard.

[Gank]

Contractors in Iraq questioned about abuse
Los Angeles Times

WASHINGTON -- A private military contractor acknowledged Friday that its employees had been questioned in connection with allegations that U.S. soldiers abused Iraqi prisoners at the U.S. military's main detention center in Iraq.

CACI International of Arlington, Va., said the employees had volunteered to be interviewed in a case in which six U.S. soldiers have been charged with sexually and physically abusing Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison outside Baghdad.

CACI, which provides services to the U.S. military ranging from intelligence gathering to computer networking, declined to identify the employees or their jobs at the prison, which houses about 8,000 convicted criminals and military detainees.

Military and industry sources said CACI was involved in the interrogation of some Iraqis being held at the prison.

A lawyer for one of the accused soldiers said CACI employees had encouraged military police to "soften up" Iraqis for questioning.

At Abu Ghraib, CACI conducted interrogations and a second U.S. company, San Diego-based Titan Corp., provided interpreters, industry and military sources said.

US uses private companys to interrogate prisioners? I wonder where there employees come from.

[Stealth]

Originally posted by kasperl
Well, I hate to say this, but is there any evidence that this is real? The pictures on the site are too low res to actually see something, but all I see is a guy with a bit of dark skin standing in a black sheet or something with a black hood on. The uniforms shouldn't be too hard to grab from some costume shop either. I can't really see how old the soldier looks, but I have my suspiciouns about the sources.

i swear you've got to be the biggest dumass i know.

yeah, that's what it is.  the american soldiers went to the nearby costume store, bought costumes, dressed up in them, took pictures of each other prending to be torturing and abusing the people in costumes, then somehow these pictures leaked to the press.

yeah kasperl, it's a hoax, it's one big hoax designed by the american soliders to get each other in trouble

[mikhael]

I find it funny that Rictor's position is that these guys ought to be lynched, but he was rather okay with the Iraqis who did far worse to prisoners they took.

But hey, who cares about consistency. These guys need to be thrown in Guantanamo as prisoners, not lynched.

[Rictor]

As I recall, I never said anything regarding the prisoners taken by the Iraqis either supporting it or condemning it. AFAIK, all the prisoners were released and most were in good shape. Also, keep in mind that the total number of hostages taken by the insurgents was not more than maybe 30. The number of people sitting in Abu Ghariab is in the thousands.

[Stealth]

yeah, so since it's such a smaller number, it gives them the right to torture them as they please, right?

because, you know, thousands of people were tortured and executed under Saddam Hussein, so a mere few dozen being tortured is OK, of course.

[Bobboau]

Originally posted by me in another forum
I'm inclined to hand them over to the new Iraqi government and have them spend the next few decades in an Iraqi prison them selves.

the only saveing grace was that they didn't kill anyone, had they done that, I'd strip them of there weapons and dump them in the middle of Falujah. an example needs to be made of these stupid ****ing bastards.

[Rictor]

Originally posted by Stealth
yeah, so since it's such a smaller number, it gives them the right to torture them as they please, right?

because, you know, thousands of people were tortured and executed under Saddam Hussein, so a mere few dozen being tortured is OK, of course.

Never said that. As I've said before, I don't support the hostage taking by insurgents. I can understand how it is necessary, but they were mostly civilians so I am against it.

However, yes, the number of people harmed is important. A man will get harsher punishment for killing 10 people than for killing 1. Same thing here.

And the conditions that the hostages were kept in was great compared the Abu Ghariab. They were all returned AFAIK, unharmed. The same can not be said for the Iraqis rotting in jail.

Bob: I doubt no one died. The prison has been operating for nearly a year, this report offers only a limited look at whats going on. There is no way of knowing whether people were killed and disposed of, unless the Army decides to speak up which I doubt will happen.

[Kazan]

Originally posted by Rictor
I look forward to hearing "just a few bad apples" ad nauseum in the next few days.

Bastards ought to be lynched.

I'm sick and tired of you're bigotry against americans - go ****ing lynch yourself you little ****

[Rictor]

Substaniated bigotry is criticism, and I see nothing wrong with that. No country, organization or person is above criticism. Or perhaps you'de like to argue that these guys did the right thing in torturing the Iraqis?

also, don't throw a tantrum. keep it civil; I do.