[ionia23]

Originally posted by Gank
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040524fa_fact

Seeing as the rest of the world doesn't seem to be bound by the Geneva Convention, I don't see any reason for us to be either.

I really love all this "oooh, look at those horrid Americans" routine.  It's brilliant.  What I'd like to see is world reaction to an American Marine holding up the severed head of an Iraqi prisoner to the camera saying "We can do this to your entire family at will.  Knock it off."

Yeah.

Of course, at that point liberation turns to subjugation.  Besides, we're better than that.

The soliders who did what they did were following orders that were, at best, obscure.  However, they knew better.  They'll pay for it.

[vyper]

Seeing as the rest of the world doesn't seem to be bound by the Geneva Convention, I don't see any reason for us to be either.

I really love all this "oooh, look at those horrid Americans" routine. It's brilliant. What I'd like to see is world reaction to an American Marine holding up the severed head of an Iraqi prisoner to the camera saying "We can do this to your entire family at will. Knock it off."

It does apply to the rest of the civilised world - you don't see British troops disregarding Geneva.

As for the head... aye... ahuh....

They'll pay for it.

We shall see.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by ionia23
Seeing as the rest of the world doesn't seem to be bound by the Geneva Convention, I don't see any reason for us to be either.

Then drop the act about how you went in to liberate Iraq. IF you don't want to hold to the Geneva Conventions just say "We went into Iraq cause we wanted the money and GW wanted to prove he had a larger dick than his dad"

[ionia23]

Originally posted by karajorma
Then drop the act about how you went in to liberate Iraq. IF you don't want to hold to the Geneva Conventions just say "We went into Iraq cause we wanted the money and GW wanted to prove he had a larger dick than his dad"

"Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest, mmm mmm mmm" -Simon & Garfunkel

[vyper]

GW wanted to prove he had a larger dick than his dad

Urgh....

[karajorma]

Originally posted by ionia23


"Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest, mmm mmm mmm" -Simon & Garfunkel

The dog with no bone barks the loudest.

[ionia23]

Originally posted by karajorma
The dog with no bone barks the loudest.

The dog with the most teeth bites the hardest.

[Rictor]

and also, this:

http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?nid=5&sid=94232

ionia: "the world" is bound by the Geneva convention. The difference is, you are strong enough to ignore it with impunity. Look how many war crimes trials are going on at the Hague "court".

Its nice of you not to generalize. There are 190 nations in the world, excluding the US. Maybe 10% of them have recently commited acts which breach the Geneva Convention. So, from this you get "the world".

So, either stick the the rules, or quit going on and on about freedom, democracy, human rights and all that other stuff that is, apprently, bull****.

[ionia23]

Originally posted by Rictor
and also, this:

http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?nid=5&sid=94232

ionia: "the world" is bound by the Geneva convention. The difference is, you are strong enough to ignore it with impunity. Look how many war crimes trials are going on at the Hague "court".

Much like the people who sawed off Nick Berg's head, which you shed the most beautiful crocodile tears over.  At least we'll own up to it.


Its nice of you not to generalize. There are 190 nations in the world, excluding the US. Maybe 10% of them have recently commited acts which breach the Geneva Convention. So, from this you get "the world".


Correction: Got caught violating the Geneva Conventions. Of course, in your universe, it only matters if America does it.  We've been down this road before.

So, either stick the the rules, or quit going on and on about freedom, democracy, human rights and all that other stuff that is, apprently, bull****.

Much like your "The Only Good American Is A Dead One" approach?  And people call me dangerous....I dread to ask where you're from...

[Rictor]

Hmm, and to think they say I am the one sees what he likes.

Originally posted by ionia23
Much like the people who sawed off Nick Berg's head, which you shed the most beautiful crocodile tears over.  At least we'll own up to it.

Never did that.

Originally posted by ionia23
Much like your "The Only Good American Is A Dead One" approach?  And people call me dangerous....I dread to ask where you're from...

or that.

Originally posted by ionia23
Correction: Got caught violating the Geneva Conventions. Of course, in your universe, it only matters if America does it.  We've been down this road before.

Yes we have. The Geneva Convention applies to all countries which signed on, which from what I know is all of 'em save for one or two. Equally.

See this, what I am typing right now? Yes, this. This is me saying that the Geneva Convention applies to all nations equally. Got that? Now, from now on, try not to speak for me, especially when it directly contradicts the above statement.

I'm sorry if the most of the rest of the world has the gaul to obey what they signed. Your claims that they have broken the Geneva Conventions but never got caught, until you can back that up with some evidence, you're talking out of your ass.

[ionia23]

Originally posted by Rictor
Hmm, and to think they say I am the one sees what he likes.
See this, what I am typing right now? Yes, this. This is me saying that the Geneva Convention applies to all nations equally. Got that? Now, from now on, try not to speak for me, especially when it directly contradicts the above statement.

I'm sorry if the most of the rest of the world has the gaul to obey what they signed. Your claims that they have broken the Geneva Conventions but never got caught, until you can back that up with some evidence, you're talking out of your ass.

This is so unbelievably laughable it's not worth spending 1/2 an hour dredging up every possible violation (publicly available) done by everyone everywhere just to pacify you.  Besides, I'm an american, what could I possibly know about anything, right?  I am capable of two things: consumption and murder.  There's no way I could ever hope to break through your prejudices.

[Rictor]

And no way that the truth could break through yours.

[mikhael]

Originally posted by ionia23

Seeing as the rest of the world doesn't seem to be bound by the Geneva Convention, I don't see any reason for us to be either.

I believe we HAVE to be bound by the Geneva Conventions. Even if the rest of the world is full of murderers, strongmen, thugs, warlords, and dictators who disregard it, we, as a nation have to abide by the Geneva Conventions. If we don't, we piss over our own values.

At least that's how I see it, anyway.

[ionia23]

Originally posted by mikhael


I believe we HAVE to be bound by the Geneva Conventions. Even if the rest of the world is full of murderers, strongmen, thugs, warlords, and dictators who disregard it, we, as a nation have to abide by the Geneva Conventions. If we don't, we piss over our own values.

At least that's how I see it, anyway.

yeah, i know. I was being overly sarcastic.  Couldn't help myself....

[DeepSpace9er]

Topic is too long to read every post, but from what ive heard, these Iraqis werent innocent civilians rounded up by mistake. Remember this is a prison, so therefore they must have done something wrong, or at the least been caught doing something sucpiscious like digging a little hole by the side of the road for no apparent reason. Not that im supporting what these "soldiers" are doing and have done, personally i think its reprehensible that the servicemen have lowered their personal morals and standards to such a level.

I also heard from the Boston Globe, which is owned by the New York Times, that some of these pictures of "soldiers" were actually photographs taken from a Turkish porn site of actors dressed up in uniforms or whatever strips of clothing to make them look like soldiers.

This whole story has to be looked at in the proper perspective, and thats the main problem the press has and the majority of people who are calling for the resignation for Rumsfeld. Where was the outcry for Reno's resignation during Wako?

One more point. Where is the outcry over the guy from Phillidelphia who was decapitated on camera by terrorists for the supposed torture? Its BS that he was killed because of torture. Those terrorists have no loyalty, they kill their own countrymen, women and innocent children. Why should they care that a few prisoners had womens underpants on their heads and the like?

[Rictor]

Originally posted by DeepSpace9er
Topic is too long to read every post, but from what ive heard, these Iraqis werent innocent civilians rounded up by mistake. Remember this is a prison, so therefore they must have done something wrong, or at the least been caught doing something sucpiscious like digging a little hole by the side of the road for no apparent reason. Not that im supporting what these "soldiers" are doing and have done, personally i think its reprehensible that the servicemen have lowered their personal morals and standards to such a level.

The Army has made no attempts to deny the 60% innocent figure given by thier own man, Taguba, nor the 70-90% innocent figure given by the Red Cross.

Remember, most of the guys in there were rounded up last fall. At the time, the occupation was going pretty smoothly, so the military had time to dick around and do sweeps for insurgents, which got of innocents detained.

What your're saying, is that since they are in prison they must have done something wrong. And since they did something wrong, they are in prison. Circle logic my friend. What happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? And yet, the military does not have to provide a single shred of evidence to anyone; how very convenient.

[Bobboau]

well they'd better start or they will have an uproseing on there hands and I don't mean this punky little 3000 man Al Soder guy either, 25 million armed and pissed off people would make things a hell of a lot worse.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by DeepSpace9er
Topic is too long to read every post, but from what ive heard,

[SNIP]

One more point. Where is the outcry over the guy from Phillidelphia who was decapitated on camera by terrorists for the supposed torture?

Next time read the topic before complaining about the lack of something in it.

[Gank]

Originally posted by Bobboau
well they'd better start or they will have an uproseing on there hands and I don't mean this punky little 3000 man Al Soder guy either, 25 million armed and pissed off people would make things a hell of a lot worse.

You're underestimating Al-Sadr, he's got a much larger following than that and its growing every day. Its not being reported as much as it should be but theres a major offensive against him underway now and it has potential to get very very ugly very very quick. In the last few days alone the Italians have been ran out of nasiriyah, Sistanis house has been shot up and one of Islams holiest sites acquired a few bullet holes courtesy of the US.

Sadr mightnt have popular support among the shias but he does have a large following, hundreds of thousands if not more and people are fickle, one wrong move and the US could make him into a national hero. Here back in 1916 after the easter rising the guys who took part were spat on and had stuff thrown at them by the people of Dublin when the brits carted them off. The brits put them up against a wall, shot them and a week later they were the greatest figures in Irish history and the brits got kicked out of most of the country shortly after.

http://www.juancole.com/
good site for keeping up with whats going on in the south.

[DeepSpace9er]

prison they must have done something wrong. And since they did something wrong, they are in prison.

You basically took a point i made and said it twice in two different ways.

And yet, the military does not have to provide a single shred of evidence to anyone; how very convenient.

The military just loves wasting men and resources watching a bunch of people that could possibly have thought of trying to terrorize Iraq. Would you rather have it the other way? Lets not arrest people until we see them with RPGs pointing at Humvees or watch people with brick looking things under their clothes walk through a crowd. There is a possibility that innocents will be picked up, but considering whats at stake, its a small chance the military is obligated to take for their own safety and the safety of everyone else.