[Hollewanderer]

I just had an completly insane idea: Zero-G Troopers in Freespace!
So, let's talk a bit more about this idea, ok?

They could be deployed from special assault transports, for example modified Argo [just add a small tube and make it a fighterbay subsystem], and would be used in attacks on planetary bases, disabled starships etc, IOW situations when decompression and loss of artifical gravity is nearly certain, and when heavy firepower is necressary. They could also add to firepower of the transport if it is attacked, and not be forced to sit idly and get shot at.

In-game, they would be tiny, maneuverable fighters, with jet-pack on the back and with thick power armor covering the body. They would be deployed from fighter bays, either from destroyers when a boarding action is needed but marine transport is not present, or from special tubes [small fighter bays that only Zero-G Troopers could use, as nothing else can fit through] on the assault transports [anything from modified Elysium or Argo to a destroyer-sized vessel]. Standart equipment would include a missle launcher, loaded with either single Harpoon or a single Hornet salvo [4 Hornets], and a minaturized Subach [tiny damage, as it is intended for anti-personell work, not for shooting down fighers]. They would also be able to survive a single Subach or Prometheus shot, but obviously full salvo from fighter [4 shots, usually] would take them down. I think that packing such firepower in a package so small and agile would make them a challenge to a player.

They would be, obviously, unshielded, and very low-poly, so that you could have dozens of them on screen and still have acceptable framerate.

Name could be... hmmm... maybe GTZG Hoplite [Galactic Terran Zero-G; I think that GTZGT is a little too long]? Or maybe GTM Spartan [Galactic Terran Marine]?

So, what do you think? I think that it is not that bad of an idea. You could even make a mission with player begin a soldier on a battlefield.

[Hippo]

I was thinking along similar lines for the Halo mod i'm trying to start...

[Darkage]

Why not  just launch them from the Argo's turret?
Or shoot them out of a torpedo tube from a Medusa/Ursa?

allot more effective.

[an0n]

If you made them weapons it'd simplify of things. Like when their 'oxygen' runs out they explode.

[Hollewanderer]

Originally posted by Darkage
Why not  just launch them from the Argo's turret?
Or shoot them out of a torpedo tube from a Medusa/Ursa?

allot more effective.

Ummm... those guys are supposed to be in power armor with maneuvering thrusters. They wouldn't *fit* in a torpedo tube on Ursa.
And what would they do? Ram the enemy to death? That's one fine idea: let's ram the enemy to death with trained soldiers! Or better yet, let's give them some explosives and make live bombs out of them! Arabs in SPAAAACE!!


No, seriously, what's the point of making them weapons?! If you want to kill something, you use a missle, not a commando who is going to go *splat* on either shields of a fighter or heavy armor of a capship. The whole idea behind Zero-G soldiers is to give player additional challenge durning battle and offer additional possibilities for missions, like planetary assault with soldiers fighting it out over the surface of the planet. It adds to realism, too, as it is unlikely that police ships have many transports onboard, but could have lots of Zero-G soldiers for boarding disabled pirate ships, for example.
BTW, story-wise they could be also rationalised as something made to kill Shivans in personal combat. Makes a lot of sense, if you ask me.

Of course, weapon idea could work if we just assumed a large boarding pod, but no current GTVA bomber could fit one...

[redsniper]

you say they would add a challenge for the player, but they wouldn't be a threat and would be so easy to kill that you could just ignore them.

[gevatter Lars]

What about shooting insane engineers at the target capship and then they rip it appart with their wrenches and cutting torches ^__^

OK bad Idea but the torpedo-marine idea mentioned somewhere above inspired me ^___°

[Hollewanderer]

Originally posted by redsniper
you say they would add a challenge for the player, but they wouldn't be a threat and would be so easy to kill that you could just ignore them.

Except that they would carry Harpoons and Hornets. Individually, yes, they wouldn't be a threat, but for every fighter there would be many, many Zero-G soldiers, and they would just flood you with missles. Also consider that they would be small and maneuverable, and they might be tough to hit at all. Combined with the aforementioned missles, you would deal with enemies that outnumber you about 6:1, carry missles [maybe up the limit to three missles for a soldier, IOW three Harpoons or 12 Hornets?] and are tough to hit. When you add enemy fighters that would support Zero-G soldiers, you would be caught in a crossfire; large missle salvos from one side, coupled with weak energy fire [but not so weak that it isn't lethal in large numbers], and normal fighter weaponry from the second side. When you try to kill Zero-G soldiers, you are getting shot by enemy fighters, and you can't effectively engage enemy fighters while you need to dodge lots of missles.

They are not designed to go against fighters one-on-one, but use their numerical superiority and missles to distract and damage the player while he is busy with enemy fighters, and not be able to be just shot down like ducks without area-effect weapons.
To be honest, they would make Infyrno very useful, as it has a sizeable blast radius.

[karajorma]

Um. Hate to say this but both the Harpoon and the Hornet are bigger than a human being. This would look ridiculous until there is some sort of external weapon mount code in FS2.

Unless you make a smaller missile of course

[Knight Templar]

X-Wing Alliance did zeroG stormtroopers... sort of.

They were more annoying than anything else.

[SadisticSid]

Yeah, they wouldn't be of any realistic use in a combat capacity, remember that FS fighters are fast, maneuverable and have fusion reactors powering their weapons. Could you fit all that in a spacesuit? No. Perhaps they could be used for invading a ship through the fighterbays though.

[Hollewanderer]

Originally posted by karajorma
Um. Hate to say this but both the Harpoon and the Hornet are bigger than a human being. This would look ridiculous until there is some sort of external weapon mount code in FS2.

Unless you make a smaller missile of course

Heh, I know that. That's why they aren't in space suits, but in large power armor.

I thought of Zero-G soldier as about 4-5 [maybe 5-6] meter tall soldier with huge-ass jetpack on his back, enormous missle tube on the shoulder and holding a large rifle. Quite reasonable, I would say.

I thought of guided Tempest missles at first, but then I recalled that I wanted them to be at least a small threat, and not something that is so bloody useless that the mass spent on it would be better used as an ablative armour on a destroyer.

Originally posted by SadisticSid
Yeah, they wouldn't be of any realistic use in a combat capacity, remember that FS fighters are fast, maneuverable and have fusion reactors powering their weapons. Could you fit all that in a spacesuit? No. Perhaps they could be used for invading a ship through the fighterbays though.

That's why they are not armed with heavy energy weapons, only a single rifle that works on clips and missles that do not use energy; they do not *have* fusion reactor, only batteries that give them power for about 12 hours of combat [or something like that, as no mission would be that long anyways].
And Zero-G Troopers can be made as maneuverable and fast as I want, considering that FS is governed by Laws of Gameplay, and only Laws of Gameplay. Call that vectored thrust and high efficency thrusters, if you want.
They are used for short range combat anyway, as they do not have space for any amount of fuel worth mentioning, and they use it up quickly. IOW, Zero-G Troopers can easily outperform a fighter up close, but they just lack ability to do any sort of long-range flight [they, of course, have no subspace drive]. This might be represented by powerful afterburners, but not so good conventional engines. Good for short bursts, but on the long run the fighter is better and faster.
That, and as I said, they are used mostly in assaults on static targets, capships, in police actions against pirates and to support defence forces of their mothership when it is attacked. Using them for assault without support would be asking for horrible defeat.

[redsniper]

so they're more like elementals or small mechs
I suppose you could also do some cool situational stuff with this. You could have the player shoot Zero-g guys off the surface of a capship before they attach a bomb or something, or you could have your wingmen eject and have one of these models appear when their ship dies.

[Unknown Target]

Why would you want to put a bunch of marines versus fighters, when you can have fighteres versus fighters, instead?
Maybe they could be used as cap ship boarders, but that's it, and that would require lots of recoding

[Hollewanderer]

Originally posted by Unknown Target
Why would you want to put a bunch of marines versus fighters, when you can have fighteres versus fighters, instead?
Maybe they could be used as cap ship boarders, but that's it, and that would require lots of recoding

Because when a ship or installation carrying Zero-G soldiers is getting attacked, it is always good to have some additional missle platforms to serve as a distraction and allow the fighter cover to do it's work, and hopefully shot down a fighter or two by themselfes. And when assault ship is attacking, they, again, provide distraction and act as missle platforms until they get into the position to board the target.

They are not a replacement for fighters, but they can support them when they aren't busy with something else, like tearing the enemy ship from inside with dozens of kilotons of thermonuclear goodness or kicking the **** out of pirates.

Basically, I thought them up as a cheap way to give player feeling of begin hopelessly outnumbered, and do it in a slightly cool and colourful way. IOW, to make the missions seem larger, with all those explosions, shots and missles flying around, without killing the framerate with masses of polygons. And to make planetary base assault missions in Red Tide look more real, of course.

[Unknown Target]

Yea, I can see it now...a whole platoon of marines dropping into the atmosphere, dressed in spacesuits, and burning up
Seriously, I really don't think there's a viable reason as to why the GTVA might want to put a crapload of people out in space on a garaunteed suicide mission (on purpose, I mean ).

[Omniscaper]

It would be great if there were some way you could have on foot battles on the exterior hull of capships. Elite Force2 had such a level and it kicked majorly. Shoot borg with a grenade launcher and watch them float away to their deaths.

I doubt such code could be implemented, But the spacetrooper combat sounds excellent. Fighters are faster, but the troopers are so small, they are hard to target. I recall Xwing Alliance's level where I was swamped with troopers trying to disable a craft I'm supposed to defend. It took me awhile to realize why my object of protection was losing hull strength.

In regards to the trooper torpedoe launches, I believe that would be hilarious. If you can't hurt the enemy, messup their capship's paint job with trooper SPLATS. Fire POW's at an enemy capship to demoralize them.

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Hollewanderer
Or better yet, let's give them some explosives and make live bombs out of them! Arabs in SPAAAACE!!

Was that really necessary?

[Flipside]

My concerns are that a laser shot is about three times bigger than a human. You'd ram more than you shot, you'd need loads of them to be effective, which would reduce the number of other ships available.

Since most capital ships have several thousand crew, you'd need at least around 150-200 Marines to secure an area aboard and start operations, and this is whilst the ship is being pounded by cannon and beams. It's a nice idea for space combat, but I don't think it would work in FS2

It might be useful as a one off, where you have to get aboard a vessel to plant a bomb or tracking device, but you'd have to do it like a stealth mission, where you had to stay away from the escorts, but it seems like an awful lot of effort just for a single specialised mission.

[redsniper]

you could use 'em as debris