[Ghostavo]

I am a conservative with liberal ideas so moderate it is...

[Grey Wolf]

Liberal social views, and conservative fiscal views.

[Reez]

I'm for the people who want to ban McDonald's and make Jared fat again so Subway will fire his ass. Are they a political group yet?

[an0n]

Originally posted by Rictor
anon: don't flatter yourself, there's nothing unique about your idea. Its been the dream of every dictator in human history. Thankfully, most failed. But those who successded ruled over the worst chapters in history. But, of course, we are to believe you would be different. A philosopher-king, wise and restrained, with the ability to safekeep the "bewildered herd" from itself.

The unique aspect of my idea would be that the entire 'shadow government' would be built on killing those above you if they started getting power-hungry.

And my idea is, in theory, nothing like a dictatorship. it's pretty much a democracy, but with elected officials being firmly entrenched enough that they don't have to listen to whiney-ass liberal groups like Greenpeace and all those anti-smoking queers.

All in all, the best analogy would be the Greek/Roman afterlife. You play it straight, be nice to everyone, live a good life and you get to live in the wonders of the Elysian Fields. You start rocking the boat, go looking for some Golden Fleece and try to bribe Charon: I have Cerberus maul yo' ass to death.

[Reez]

actually, your system sounds like tyranny.

[an0n]

It would be, but the shadow government has no actual power.

It's just immune from all laws.

So it could kill the Prime Minister, but it couldn't fine people for letting their dogs **** on government property.

[Reez]

couldn't they commit genocide then? in theory?

[an0n]

Indeed they could. But so could any moron with a tank and a few troops.

[Rictor]

Any moron with a tank and a few troops has. Many times.

Something about absolute power corrupting absolutely. Or Absolute Vodka, it was one of those two, I can't exactly remember which one.

[Ace]

Originally posted by HotSnoJ
For the wuv of fishes and all that is still good in the world why are we having yet another political topic?

You know, I know, and they know that these always get into a flame feast centered around some conservative thinker (such as me or Lib).

Very well then, if you're a conservative thinker then what would your ideal society for conservatives be?

No, I'm not trying to be insulting or anything. an0n has stated his ideas for his own utopia, what are yours?

I'm honestly curious, because I hear lots of banging trash cans about "evil secular consumerism, christian nations, returning to old values" etc. etc. but  I'm never given any solid examples of what is wanted.

[an0n]

Originally posted by Rictor
Something about absolute power corrupting absolutely. Or Absolute Vodka, it was one of those two, I can't exactly remember which one.

Abosolute power is fine as long as the person wielding it is an apathetic nihilist. Basically someone of the mindset "Why bother?".

It's when someone has power that is less than absolute and temporary that problems arise, as they become accustomed to that power and fight tooth and nail to keep or increase it.

Monarchies are a good example. There've been ones all over the world that had absolute power over their subjects and they've worked fine, except for the problem of the King/Queen losing touch with what's best for the people.....and mother****ers rocking the boat purely for the purpose of rocking it then screaming about "We want a democratic society" because they've been misinformed that it's somehow better.

[Reez]

A true good example of conservative thinking would be the US between the end of World War 1 and Pearl Harbor. Not dipping too heavily in foreign policy, mostly working with domestics. Thanks to Reagan, conservative has changed to "LET'S BLOW THE F'ING PLANET UP AND NAME OUR IDEAS AFTER OLD MOVIES" (Star Wars defense system... next thing he was gonna announce was "Terminator" the anti gun-registration commission)

[IceFire]

Liberals are moderates....Socialists are Left wing.

At present...Canada has only one real national party and thats the Liberals who sit teetering on the edge between right and left wings.  Its the only party with a broad national outlook and representative of the vast numbers of moderate Canadians.

The old Conservative party used to be the same thing reallly.  It had a broad nationalist appeal with enough moderation to be worthwhile to vote for.  The new Conservative party is the Reform/Alliance party with new clothing...no broad nationalist appeal, will drop taxes and national healthcare, screw up education, and get us into the kinds of wars and situations like President Bush has in the U.S.

Bring back the old school conservatives who actually meant something...not these neo-conservatives who are way too far off the deep end to represent anything moderately Canadian.

[Rictor]

The "old school conservatives" support Martin :D

anon: so, essentially, you subscribe to Plato's world view. But see, he had a reason to hate democracy. It was stupid beaurocrats acting under the guise of democracy that got his mentor and close friend, Socrates, killed. What reason to do you?

just look at all the failed utopias of the 20th century. Communism, faschism.

as I said, freedom is more important than stability.

[Rictor]

see, whats your goal. In advocating democracy or dictatorship or supreme rule by Bob the Almighty, whats the goal you're after? Please say something as stupid as stability or order so I can laugh at you.

[an0n]

If you're citing the fall of Communism as a reason why a utopian society is impossible, I may just have to kill you.

[Reez]

and that in ancient Greece, almost everyone was uneducated. That's another major difficulty. I mean, try casting a ballot when you can't read it.

[an0n]

Americans seem to do just fine.

[Rictor]

communism should have done just fine, in theory. if the people behind the revolution hadn't been opportunistic bastards and instituted a dictatorship. and this has happened every time. China, Russia, Cuba, North Korea. the only functioning example of communism that I know of would be the kibutz (sp) in Israel. Not taking into account small, tribal societies.

Communism isn't impossible, its just impossible by humans. I take it that your ideal society would be not unlike 1984 or a Brave New

[an0n]

My ideal society would have a thousand cameras in every home and trustworthy people manning them.

So, realistically, no cameras in anyone's home.