[Reez]

people need instant gratification. that doesn't happen in communism, so people, like the economy and life, stagnate. I mean, if you farm 400 beans a week cuz you work hard, and your neighbour only farms about 100 cuz he wanks off too much, would you be willing to share your beans in a pool and split them fifty fifty?

[an0n]

No.

You get as much as you deserve. Simple.

[übermetroid]

Originally posted by Carl
HLP is riddled with hippies.

You should see where I live.  50 hippies die everytime you drive down the street.  

[Singh]

Originally posted by an0n
Abosolute power is fine as long as the person wielding it is an apathetic nihilist. Basically someone of the mindset "Why bother?".

It's when someone has power that is less than absolute and temporary that problems arise, as they become accustomed to that power and fight tooth and nail to keep or increase it.

Monarchies are a good example. There've been ones all over the world that had absolute power over their subjects and they've worked fine, except for the problem of the King/Queen losing touch with what's best for the people.....and mother****ers rocking the boat purely for the purpose of rocking it then screaming about "We want a democratic society" because they've been misinformed that it's somehow better.

You forget....after a good ruler is gone, then who's left to take the throne? unless you plan on immortality, I wouldn't bother either way.

btw, any form of government is totally useless is the person leading it is an idiot, while even the wildest types work best with the right person. This has worked VERY well before. I can name off hte top of my heads many rulers that have done well in india, and I'm sure some of you can name some as well (President Kennedy is an example). But too many good people have been followed by bad people that investing too much power into the ruling power has resulted in too much trouble.....(and the world you see today). The solution suggested simply returns to that cycle, or at least it seems that way, so correct me if I'm wrong.

an0n, there is a letter on communism that is quite interesting. you may want to read it, i'll PM you the thing once I find it.

[Ghostavo]

That's where the cloning comes in

[HotSnoJ]

Originally posted by Ace


Very well then, if you're a conservative thinker then what would your ideal society for conservatives be?

No, I'm not trying to be insulting or anything. an0n has stated his ideas for his own utopia, what are yours?

I'm honestly curious, because I hear lots of banging trash cans about "evil secular consumerism, christian nations, returning to old values" etc. etc. but  I'm never given any solid examples of what is wanted.

Here's the GOP platform, I haven't read though the whole thing but I'm assume I agree on most points.

Now before you go off saying I'm a religious nut case who wants to take over the government and ban all others. You're quite wrong, I could care less what you believe from a political standpoint. I would love to see you become a Christian, but I will not support laws/policy that would restrict you. Also I must point out that it is the Christians and Christian nations (e.g. what the US somewhat is) that have allow the greatest religious freedom. Don't believe me? Just look at history. Examples are the USSR, who imprisoned thousands for not conforming to the Communist ideal. Also that is China (can't remember it's official name ATM), do I even need to remind you of Tiananmen Square?

Also of note, have you ever seen a conservative/Chrisitian thinker ever stop anyone of any faith from praying in a public place (such as school)? Probably not. Now how about a liberal/socialist? sometime since 9/11/2001 my local schooldistrict set aside places for muslims to meet and pray. However they have restricted or banned Christians from doing this.

Well I gtg and deliever my papers. I'll be back later.

[kode]

In sweden, liberal is right-wing...

[Nico]

I hate to do that, but I'll have to support An0n on one point, there:
Tyrany can work better, depending on where you leave.
Take, ouch, Yougoslavia. Under Tito's rulling, everything was going fine. Tito was no funny guy. Then they got bloody useless idiots, and all went pouf, people started killing each other.
Alelujha for freedom.

[Rictor]

I agree with the Tito example, I'll give you that much. Just my luck, I'm born just as the golden era is winding down and the **** starts hitting the fan.

But it is *because* of Tito's style of rule that you saw the wars of Yugoslav succesion in the 90s. See, his idea was unity at any cost. The fact that the Serbs didn't get along with the Croats, the Croats didn't get along with the Bosnians and the Bosnians didn't get along with the Serbs, that didn't concern him much. There was lots of bad blood between the Serbs and the Croats, because the Croats had beem Nazi colaboraters, while the Serbs had fought in the resistance, the largest group being the Communists who eventually took power after the war.

Its the same story in Africa, in India/Pakistan and many other places. Groups who have certain quarells are forced to live with each other for the sake of unity. And when the force that is holding them together against their will is gone, well then they have to work their **** out. In Africa, this mostly happened after de-colonization, and in Yugoslavia it happened with the death of Tito (though there was stability for abour 10 moer years after his death).

Tyranny may work, but its only achieving something not worth the cost.

See, if I have to pay 5,000 dollars for a chocolate bar, screw it, I don't want te chocolate bar. ANd if people have to pay for order with their freedom, than they would rather have freedom any day.

edit: My English teacher must be spining in her...chair. I R A Terible spellar.

[Nico]

Yeah I agree with you, but, as you said, the whole deal started BEFORE Tito. There was no way to prevent a bloodshed w/o a guy like him, coz you guys live on the same soil. As weird as it may sound, he actually cooled things down.
See, things would have kept this way for one more generation, all that croat/serb thing would have probably vanished with the death of the older ones.
And I'd rather have order at a price than freedom in death, to be honest.

arh, edited for typos too

[ionia23]

<---- Fascist Republicrat.

i.e.: Both sides have a more complete picture when they work together, but my say should be the only say.

Makes it a ***** to vote in the primaries though, so I'm more of a conservative democrat.

[Gank]

Originally posted by HotSnoJ

Here's the GOP platform, I haven't read though the whole thing but I'm assume I agree on most points.
.

So you dont know what they're saying but you're sure you agree with it? People like you let hitler into power. His unemployment and self sufficiency policies sounded quite good if you hadnt heard about the killing all the jews, gays, retards and other people he considered subhuman.

http://www.rnc.org/About/PartyPlatform/default.aspx?Section=8
I'm not surprised you havent read through it. How can these people claim to be their leadership is best for the world when they cant even grasp the concept of a paragraph.

[Ace]

Originally posted by HotSnoJ

Here's the GOP platform, I haven't read though the whole thing but I'm assume I agree on most points.

Now before you go off saying I'm a religious nut case who wants to take over the government and ban all others. You're quite wrong, I could care less what you believe from a political standpoint. I would love to see you become a Christian, but I will not support laws/policy that would restrict you. Also I must point out that it is the Christians and Christian nations (e.g. what the US somewhat is) that have allow the greatest religious freedom. Don't believe me? Just look at history. Examples are the USSR, who imprisoned thousands for not conforming to the Communist ideal. Also that is China (can't remember it's official name ATM), do I even need to remind you of Tiananmen Square?

Also of note, have you ever seen a conservative/Chrisitian thinker ever stop anyone of any faith from praying in a public place (such as school)? Probably not. Now how about a liberal/socialist? sometime since 9/11/2001 my local schooldistrict set aside places for muslims to meet and pray. However they have restricted or banned Christians from doing this.

Well I gtg and deliever my papers. I'll be back later.

I was more interested in your ideas of the ideal government, similarly I'm also interested in Liberator's ideal government and society.

Linking to another website with similar ideas I don't think is as conductive to a discussion as stating what you think yourself.

Anyways, I'm sort of hoping to get everyone involved in this sort of discussion. Later on I'll post on ideas for what I think would be the ideal setup.

Also, for the time being, let's also keep from pointing fingers at each other and calling people who don't agree with you facists.

[Rictor]

and then there is the very real chance of them saying one thing and doing another. I wouldn't trust either the Dems or the Reps as far as I could throw them, they have a long and proud history of lieing through their teeth.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Rictor
and then there is the very real chance of them saying one thing and doing another. I wouldn't trust either the Dems or the Reps as far as I could throw them, they have a long and proud history of lieing through their teeth.

Well, they are politicians.

Oh, and my political leaning is of the 'be jolly nice to people and they won;t act rotten' variety.  Well, except for the quasi-nutcase 'kill all neds' bit, but I'll keep that hush-hush for the time being

[vyper]

Don't be silly, Neds would eat you alive if they got the chance you know!

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by vyper
Don't be silly, Neds would eat you alive if they got the chance you know!

Yes - which is why I have to make my buckfast & anthrax plan covert.

ALthough the buckfast is actually more lethal than the anthrax, so I'm not sure whether it's worth bothering.

[Reez]

Originally posted by kode
In sweden, liberal is right-wing...

that's cuz Sweden is the country of government ownership and blonde hookers. It works well!

[HotSnoJ]

Originally posted by Gank

So you dont know what they're saying but you're sure you agree with it? People like you let hitler into power. His unemployment and self sufficiency policies sounded quite good if you hadnt heard about the killing all the jews, gays, retards and other people he considered subhuman.

http://www.rnc.org/About/PartyPlatform/default.aspx?Section=8
I'm not surprised you havent read through it. How can these people claim to be their leadership is best for the world when they cant even grasp the concept of a paragraph.

No, I said I hadn't read the whole thing and that I assumed that I agree on most points. And now that I've had a chance to read it, I do disagree with the health care part. And I seriously doubt that part about people like me and Hitler. 1) because he was a facist. 2) America isn't killing "jews, gays, retards and other people considered subhuman" (your words not mine) to further political gain or personal hatered.

And yes, they could use some <p> </p>'s.

Originally posted by Ace


I was more interested in your ideas of the ideal government, similarly I'm also interested in Liberator's ideal government and society.

Linking to another website with similar ideas I don't think is as conductive to a discussion as stating what you think yourself.

Anyways, I'm sort of hoping to get everyone involved in this sort of discussion. Later on I'll post on ideas for what I think would be the ideal setup.

Also, for the time being, let's also keep from pointing fingers at each other and calling people who don't agree with you facists.

Well, they (the RNC) for the most part agree with my views of government. That is why I linked to them, cuz they can say it better then me.

My views; That government is suppose to be limited and small. That social programs such as the Medicare and SS are not what they're suppose to be doing with taxes. That featus' are actually humans and should have the right to life. That there should be execution of crimials that commit hainous acts such as murder
(1st degree) and the like. Also less taxes and less regulation of business.

Those is my view of what government should be, there's probably more, but I'm not in the mood to write it right now. So I hope this post has been more informative for you on my views.

[Ace]

Originally posted by HotSnoJ
No, I said I hadn't read the whole thing and that I assumed that I agree on most points. And now that I've had a chance to read it, I do disagree with the health care part. And I seriously doubt that part about people like me and Hitler. 1) because he was a facist. 2) America isn't killing "jews, gays, retards and other people considered subhuman" (your words not mine) to further political gain or personal hatered.

And yes, they could use some <p> </p>'s.

Well, they (the RNC) for the most part agree with my views of government. That is why I linked to them, cuz they can say it better then me.

My views; That government is suppose to be limited and small. That social programs such as the Medicare and SS are not what they're suppose to be doing with taxes. That featus' are actually humans and should have the right to life. That there should be execution of crimials that commit hainous acts such as murder
(1st degree) and the like. Also less taxes and less regulation of business.

Those is my view of what government should be, there's probably more, but I'm not in the mood to write it right now. So I hope this post has been more informative for you on my views.

No offense, but you're still toting party lines. My question is if you had a clean slate to work with what would be your ideal society.

Pretend you were given complete control to reform the United States completely in any way you wish. What would be your government system? If a democracy what type, the Greek style or a republic? How many divisions and checks and balances do you want? What would you have in place to ensure the Bible is law? How are you going to ensure that the media is morally straight? How are you going to ensure the size of the government is limited? What is going to be done education wise to protect Christianity?

Sure the US works, but what about secularism, "liberal activists" and other threats to Christendom that the US system allows for? You also mentioned religious tolerance. That's good and fine, but that opens the door towards agnosticism, atheism, etc. How are you going to make sure that Christianity stays the majority in your society and that it doesn't drift from that?

Seriously, these are the questions I want to see answers for. If you had complete control to create the nation and world you wanted, what would you do in the name of God?

I'd also like to hear Sandwich's ideas for an ideal Israel too, if he's lurking around here. Anyways, I'll post up my own wacko ideas shortly.