Poll

How many of these books have you read?

Zero
2 (11.1%)
1-5
3 (16.7%)
6-10
6 (33.3%)
11-15
2 (11.1%)
15-20
1 (5.6%)
20-30
0 (0%)
>30
4 (22.2%)

Total Members Voted: 18

Voting closed: May 25, 2004, 09:36:43 pm

Author Topic: 100 Best Books of All Time  (Read 4246 times)

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Offline Stunaep

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Quote
Originally posted by karajorma


That would be a good arguement if I was on about the list. But I was mainly refering to Flipside's comment about experts always choosing old things.

Besides I'd be willing to bet that the number of books published in the 20th century is far higher than the number in any other 2 centuries you care to choose. :)

With that kind of productivity you'd expect more than a handful of books to make it.

Compare the number that are from the 20th century with those from the 19th.  That's rather odd isn't it. More books written in the 20th century but somehow the 19th was better.

Besides I don't consider books 100 years old to be modern. Try 20-30 years old.


Hollywood makes about 90 times more films than in the 1920ies. That doesn't mean they are all better. Infact, most are worse. The thing is, when something is expensive to make, you always aim for quality. When it becomes cheap, you aim for the big buck. So most of the thousands of books published today suck. Which is by no means an excuse to refrain from reading modern literature, infact as you yourself said, no-one can claim to be an expert in literature unless one did that. Still, I myself can't think of any book, that I'd place among the likes of Faust and Hamlet, that was written in the last 20 years or so. And also, one of the things that gives a book value, is it's longevity, whether the issues in the book are still there five or ten years down the road, or if the book can be interpreted to adress the new problems of society. And mostly time is needed to say that.

On another note, Remarque's "All quiet on the western front" is a notable omission from the list.
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Offline Dark_4ce

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Ok, I dont want to start any "discussions" related to this or rouse any latent emotions, but I was rather suprised they didn't add the Bible in there. But I guess if were talking only pure entertainment fiction then yeah. But still...
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Offline karajorma

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Quote
Originally posted by Stunaep
Hollywood makes about 90 times more films than in the 1920ies. That doesn't mean they are all better. Infact, most are worse. The thing is, when something is expensive to make, you always aim for quality. When it becomes cheap, you aim for the big buck. So most of the thousands of books published today suck.


You trying to tell me that Hollywood hasn't made a single classic movie in the last 20 years cause they make more now? Hah. You need to think that analogy through again cause it's pretty poor. You've basically prooved my point for me. Yes Hollywood turns out more movies. Yes that means more crap. But it also means more chance of a good movie turning up.

Quote
Originally posted by Stunaep
Which is by no means an excuse to refrain from reading modern literature, infact as you yourself said, no-one can claim to be an expert in literature unless one did that. Still, I myself can't think of any book, that I'd place among the likes of Faust and Hamlet, that was written in the last 20 years or so. And also, one of the things that gives a book value, is it's longevity, whether the issues in the book are still there five or ten years down the road, or if the book can be interpreted to adress the new problems of society. And mostly time is needed to say that.


http://www.randomhouse.com/modernlibrary/100bestnovels.html

http://www.interleaves.org/~rteeter/grttls.html

http://www.interleaves.org/~rteeter/grtlat.html

http://www.bpl.org/research/AdultBooklists/influential.htm

Take your pick out of those. :)  Quite a few are non-fiction but it does show that there are gaping holes in the list of 20th century books.
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Offline Flipside

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It's like Shakespeare though, some of it is so good that your teacher has to spend hours in a classroom pointing out why.

Anybody else see anything wrong with this picture?

I just wonder whether they are voted for because the reader genuinely found themselves affected by the book, or just because it makes them look more 'academic' :(

 

Offline Stunaep

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Quote
Originally posted by karajorma


You trying to tell me that Hollywood hasn't made a single classic movie in the last 20 years cause they make more now? Hah. You need to think that analogy through again cause it's pretty poor. You've basically prooved my point for me. Yes Hollywood turns out more movies. Yes that means more crap. But it also means more chance of a good movie turning up.


No, Hollywood certainly gets three or five films with actual cinematic value out in a year, but the lot of the actual good cinema comes from independent developers and european countries, who don't have half as much money as hollywood, and thus must think very carefully what to finance and what not. Especially because in most countries movie-making is always
non-profitable. As for hollywood, well, I don't see them churning out any more good movies than they did in the 1950'ies.

And finally, looking at all those lists (the BBC one, the Guardian one, Kara's modern lists) proves once again that it is pointless to make top 100 lists. Good books are books, no point in putting them in an order.
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Offline Stunaep

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Quote
Originally posted by Flipside
It's like Shakespeare though, some of it is so good that your teacher has to spend hours in a classroom pointing out why.

Anybody else see anything wrong with this picture?


But tell me, honest to god, did you actually sit down and think about his plays for a good hour? Or talk about them with a friend.

Didn't think so.
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Offline Flipside

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Then you thought wrong :)

  

Offline karajorma

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Quote
Originally posted by Stunaep
As for hollywood, well, I don't see them churning out any more good movies than they did in the 1950'ies.


I don't see them churning out more movies than the fifties either.
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Offline castor

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Quote
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
Ok, I dont want to start any "discussions" related to this or rouse any latent emotions, but I was rather suprised they didn't add the Bible in there. But I guess if were talking only pure entertainment fiction then yeah. But still...

Well, they missed plenty..
Thinking of some favourites, I would have expected to see e.g. Henry James and Graham Greene on that list.

Oh well..

 

Offline Rictor

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Quote
Originally posted by Flipside
It's like Shakespeare though, some of it is so good that your teacher has to spend hours in a classroom pointing out why.

Anybody else see anything wrong with this picture?

I just wonder whether they are voted for because the reader genuinely found themselves affected by the book, or just because it makes them look more 'academic' :(


Good man. This is what I've bee saying all along. My best hint that there might actually be something to Shakespeare came, ironically, from another book, Brave New World, and not from any of Shakespeare's work.

BTW, Stuneap, are you talking about Don Juan from Castaneda's books, or someone else? I'm pretty sure its the latter, but I haven't the slightest clue which book it might be from.

And what is Harry Potter doing on the BBC list. Yeah, sure, put some modern books on the list, but c'mon, Harry Potter!?!

 

Offline karajorma

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Pay attention Rictor. The BBC list was voted for by the public. The public like Harry Potter.
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Offline jdjtcagle

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Harryless Peter was very popular around the U.S. to
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Offline Grey Wolf

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I read them. Gave up after the Goblet of Fire. Should have stopped after the third. I was younger, though.....
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Offline TopAce

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Originally posted by karajorma
Pay attention Rictor. The BBC list was voted for by the public. The public like Harry Potter.


And don't they like The Lord of the Rings? Only the film was a great success?
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Offline Black Wolf

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Originally posted by TopAce


And don't they like The Lord of the Rings? Only the film was a great success?


Quite possibly - I for one can't stand reading Tolkien - even a mate of mine, who's a die hard LotR fan, agrees with me that Tolkien was trying to "Write a movie" due to the ridiculous amount of visual detail he goes into, so it's hardly surprising the movie was more successful. Plus it's easier to watch than to read, and non readers can still buy movie tickets.
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Offline TopAce

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I even don't have the patience to read a book which has more than 250 pages.
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Offline Black Wolf

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Then you're missing out on a lot of cool books. :nod:
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Offline karajorma

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Originally posted by TopAce
And don't they like The Lord of the Rings? Only the film was a great success?


Does no one pay attention? :)  Lord of the Rings won the BBC poll. My complaint was that it seemed ridiculous that a book could win that one and yet fail to even appear on the Guardian poll.

  Especially when whether you like LotR or not you have to admit that it is well written.
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Offline aldo_14

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Isn't the guardian a bit snooty, tho?

 

Offline karajorma

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A bit. But I still prefer it over the outright lies of the tabloid press.
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