[Reez]

Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.
I meant in current times, between the more powerful countries

Uh... D-day was in World War 2. And the four biggest powers at the time were the US, Russia, Germany, and Japan. 60 years is fairly recent history, you'll agree, and it's generally agreed that all 4 of those countries could kick quite of ass in their day.

[Corsair]

Originally posted by Reez
Uh... if you didn't realize, Germany conquered quite a bit before they lost. Meaning, they made a lot of area their territory, then ended up losing it cuz the US came in with overkill and blew the pants off of em. Remember that the allies won D-day, even though it was a massive attack on German territory.

Right. And it wasn't really German territory. It was French. The Allies had the help of the Resistance. Not everyone was collaborating with the Nazis and they weren't on their home turf. If anything, it was neutral ground.

[Reez]

remember that southern france was collaborating with the Germans. And the Resistance, though brave, is overly glorified. They didn't really accomplish all that much. THey weren't strong enough or hhad the munitions, and i doubt the Germans right now are running around saying "you know, if it wasn't for that damn Resistance, we would've won that war"

[Gank]

Originally posted by Reez
Uh... if you didn't realize, Germany conquered quite a bit before they lost. Meaning, they made a lot of area their territory, then ended up losing it cuz the US came in with overkill and blew the pants off of em. Remember that the allies won D-day, even though it was a massive attack on German territory.

And of course the Soviets helped the US win the war by mounting a 2 million man offensive at the same time as d-day which completely smashed several German armys. Then later on they helped distract the germans by capturing Berlin.

[vyper]

Erm, Reez, u missed out Britain as one of the most powerful nations in ww2 - we didn't just drink tea and get bombed we kinda were the only ones left standing up to Germany at one point.

Oh and that small matter of the emprie...

[aldo_14]

I believe the British still had the worlds most powerful navy at that point, didn't they/we?  It's easy to forget the fighting that went on in Africa, and also in Asia (i.e. British territories uch as Shanghai - and obviously Australia).

NB:  It's worth noting that D-Day was a major success partly because counter-intelligence has succeeded in convincing the Germans the landings would take place in Calais, or even (I think) possibly in Norway.  On D-Day, Normandy was mostly guarded by older, less-battle hardened troops.  I think the only reinfocements were a couple of divisions (not good with military troop sizes, tho...) of more battle-hardened troops*

So it's probably worth remembering that D-Day was only a small part - albeit crucial- of the overall campaign.... the succesfull landing was only the beginning of the fighting, not the end.  IIRC, on the end of D-Day, the Allies had only actually moved about 10 miles inland...... the fighting had barely started at that point.

*dispatched by hitler to Normandy on a 'hunch' a few weeks before D-Day

[Reez]

i didn't forget about Britain. But when war came around, you guys were sorely unprepared. But GO UK! Awesome navy, what with all the killings of German U-boats you did.

[Gank]

Originally posted by aldo_14
NB:  It's worth noting that D-Day was a major success partly because counter-intelligence has succeeded in convincing the Germans the landings would take place in Calais, or even (I think) possibly in Norway.  On D-Day, Normandy was mostly guarded by older, less-battle hardened troops.  I think the only reinfocements were a couple of divisions (not good with military troop sizes, tho...) of more battle-hardened troops*

A lot of the troops guarding the beachs were actually russians, equipped with mosin nagants and ppshs. And there were a couple of good german divisions in the area, panzer Lehr and 10th and 12th SS among a few others. Brits in particular had it rough when they started coming up against the big cats further inland.

[Viper1000]

Not to mention captured Polish, some of which shot their German captors when they saw the invasion fleet coming in.

[Viper1000]

And also if the British Royal Air Force didn't win the Battle of Britain... I think we would've been screwed.

[Nico]

Originally posted by Reez
remember that southern france was collaborating with the Germans. And the Resistance, though brave, is overly glorified. They didn't really accomplish all that much. THey weren't strong enough or hhad the munitions, and i doubt the Germans right now are running around saying "you know, if it wasn't for that damn Resistance, we would've won that war"

1) southern France collaborated with the Nazi only for the fight against the resistance. The allied never fought french people.

As for the resistance, they didn't accomplish much? Sure, Prior to D-day, they just blown all the rail network, major communication centers, ammunitions depots ( well they did that from day one, mind you, they didn't wait for D-Day ), assassinated countless nazi and wermarcht officers, bombed convoys and bridges, etc etc.
Yeah, they didn't really accomplish all that much.

[Janos]

Originally posted by Gank


And of course the Soviets helped the US win the war by mounting a 2 million man offensive at the same time as d-day which completely smashed several German armys. Then later on they helped distract the germans by capturing Berlin.

...
Too bad they launched it towards Finland (at 10.-11.6.) than Germany - the main Soviet assault against Germany only began in August '44, though Germany's power had already been dimished in late 1943 - early 1944.

[Gank]

Originally posted by Janos
Too bad they launched it towards Finland (at 10.-11.6.) than Germany - the main Soviet assault against Germany only began in August '44, though Germany's power had already been dimished in late 1943 - early 1944.

No they didnt, operation Bagration was launched at army group centre, the finnish assault (karelia?) was a different matter . And the Russians stopped and started beating back the german invasion winter 42/43, by august 44 the russians were in poland.

Originally posted by Nico
1) southern France collaborated with the Nazi only for the fight against the resistance. The allied never fought french people.

Not in france but iirc they fought french troops in north africa

[Janos]

Originally posted by Gank


No they didnt, operation Bagration was launched at army group centre, the finnish assault (karelia?) was a different matter . And the Russians stopped and started beating back the german invasion winter 42/43, by august 44 the russians were in poland.

The assault on Karelian Isthmus began on 10.6.1944. Bagration on 22.6., and though being wildly successful, the units fighting on Karelia were needed on Baltic. Some sources propose Stalin had promised to start a full attack on Eastern Front right after D-Day, and did so, but surprised the Western Allies by throwing his first offensive towards Finland, not Germany.

Not that it mattered, though.

[pyro-manic]

Originally posted by Reez
i didn't forget about Britain. But when war came around, you guys were sorely unprepared. But GO UK! Awesome navy, what with all the killings of German U-boats you did.

Not to mention the ****-kicking given to all and sundry in the Med.

Aldo: We had the biggest navy, including the biggest warship (the Hood), but a lot of the ships weren't as up-to-date as they needed to be. The heaviest ships (the Nelson and Rodney battleships) were very powerful (9 16" guns) but slow, and most of the battleship fleet (about 25 ships IIRC) were at least 15-20 years old, with the Great War-style designs (such as the Barham, Malaya, Warspite, Ramillies, etc.). The only new ones were the King George V-class, which started to enter service in 1939 IIRC. Our carriers were also fairly old for the most part, with ships like the Indefatigable dating back to the early 20s (with the exception of the Ark Royal, finished in '37 I think), though we did have more than anyone else. The Americans were probably about equal to us in terms of strength, though they lost a massive chunk of their power at Pearl Harbour (8 battleships sunk), and they never really regained it.

And you were right about the counter-intelligence prior to D-Day - the Germans thought that the British 4th Army was going to invade Norway in the spring of 1944. The 4th Army didn't actually exist - it was all inflatable tanks!

Anyway, getting back to USA vs PRC: I think that any US Navy task force would suffer heavy damage from the Chinese, though they would probably return the favour. As for carrier "durability", a hit from a Moskit or Yakhont would wipe out a carrier almost instantly. Even if the hit didn't destroy the carrier outright, it would be taken out of the battle straight away.

[TrashMan]

Originally posted by vyper
Erm, Reez, u missed out Britain as one of the most powerful nations in ww2 - we didn't just drink tea and get bombed we kinda were the only ones left standing up to Germany at one point.

Oh and that small matter of the emprie...

The only reason GB remained free was the canal. If Hitler had a fast and safe way of transfering it's tanks and soldiers, GB would have fallen fast.

And US was the greatest naval force of that time. Yes, they lost a lot of ship in Pearl Harbour, but by the end of the war they build a whole armada of carriers and battleships.

I really doubt that Germany would have lost the war at all if Hitler hadn't started a war at 2 fronts. The idiot.

[Reez]

Actually, he was pretty much screwed when the Americans joined. He really couldn't match their firepower, even if it was one on one.

[adwight]

If it was really world war 3, do you think that the US would mess around with cities?  NO, they would level them to the ground, carpet bomb the hell out of China, and eventually win the war.  China doesn't have a prayer if the US uses all it has at its disposal.

[Reez]

uh... do you realize how mountainous china is? and how the rest of the world would declare war on the US for such a blatant war crime? i doubt they could take on the entire civilized world, and most of the uncivilized war as well. Imagine the number of terrorists in planes then.