[Rictor]

This made my day.

Originally posted by Bill O'Reilly
O'REILLY: Because look ... when 2 percent of the population feels that you're doing them a favor, just forget it, you're not going to win. You're not going to win. And I don't have any respect by and large for the Iraqi people at all. I have no respect for them. I think that they're a prehistoric group that is -- yeah, there's excuses.

Sure, they're terrorized, they've never known freedom, all of that. There's excuses. I understand. But I don't have to respect them because you know when you have Americans dying trying to you know institute some kind of democracy there, and 2 percent of the people appreciate it, you know, it's time to -- time to wise up.

    And this teaches us a big lesson, that we cannot intervene in the Muslim world ever again. What we can do is bomb the living daylights out of them, just like we did in the Balkans. Just as we did in the Balkans. Bomb the living daylights out of them. But no more ground troops, no more hearts and minds, ain't going to work.

    [...]

    They're just people who are primitive.
 

Well, can't argue with that...

[Taristin]

And the spin stopped there... I suppose?




Glass... it's what an0n's been suggesting for some time now.

[Fineus]

Hurrah for the mighty and wise United States, and hurrah for their lapdogs in England.

(remember kids.. 9 years, thats what I give us...)

[Taristin]

Going by the Mayan calendar, as well?  Wee! December 24th, 2012... fear that day!

[PeachE]

i just don't know what some of my fellow citizens are expecting.  

of course the Iraqis are going to resent us. i've heard a lot of comparisons to post-WWII Japan lately, but they're just not the same. Japan fought a full, balls out war with us. the Iraqis haven't done anything wrong. they've been ruled by a tyrannical dictator and once he was toppled, the brave new day they awaken to is to be occupied by US troops. can anyone really blame them for being more than just a little pissed off?

no one left over there wants Saddam back. i doubt even the rebel fighters do. they just want us out. at this point, we can't leave of course. the wolves would just swoop in and eat that nation alive. but we should take on a more passive role. just withdraw to a few bases, let the nation grow on its own and serve as a protector. get the **** out of the cities.

imo, it's a good cause and i think something needed to be done. but in the long run, i'm not sure going into a full out war was the best decision. you can't make someone change. you can't make a nation change. people have to fight their own battles. we should have taken out the leadership and let the people wage their own revolution.

"Did I solicit thee, from darkness to promote me?"

[ionia23]

No good deed goes unpunished.

[vyper]

Abu Ghraib was so nice of ur guys as well...

[PeachE]

bad things happen on both sides. it's a ****ing war. **** happens.

[vyper]

I'm sure the iraqi kids who died during sanctions completely agree with you...

[ionia23]

That's former president Saddam's fault, not ours.

[Ghostavo]

Who put Saddam into power? oh damn... there goes your argument...

[Rictor]

really? yeah, those medicinal supplies could have really wreaked some havok if they had been allowed to enter Iraq. its a good thing too, you now have 500,000 potential terrorists less to deal with...

[ionia23]

Saddam put Saddam into power.  There goes YOURS.

[Rictor]

yeah, Saddam put Saddam into power, ansd 25 million innocents suffered. I'm thinking of a word, its starts with "co" and ends with "llective punishment"...

[ionia23]

In reality, it starts with knock off blaming the US for everyone else's problems.  It's tiresome and ****ing old.

[Rictor]

yes, the sanctions that the US imposed, the 13 years of constant bombing, surely they are someone elses problem.

In the real world, when you hit someone, you are responsible for it. Not Pete or Bob, but you. And before you bring up the argument "well he invaded Kuwait", a country very close to Iraq, I won't say who, did that same thing, occupied a foreign country for a number of years, and never even got so much as a frown in their direction.

As I said, the sanctions included such things as medicine and humanitarian supplies. Items which could in no way be used for a military purpose were prohibited from entering Iraq. First, you blow up their infrastructure, lets say water treatement for example, and then you do not allow them to build it back up. But of course, everyone knows, those water purification plants were really missle silos, right?

[ionia23]

Yadda yadda.  I forgot I'm making the mistake of discussion this with a guy who pops champagne corks every time another chap gets beheaded in the name of Allah, who holds America accountable for every world upset in the last 300 years.  I'll remember not to waste my time in the future.

[Rictor]

way to deflect that one. whenever someone brings up some unsettling facts, you just yell "oh, you hate America and blame them for everythng thats ever gone wrong in the history of humanity, so what else is new". See, this way, you never have to actually, whats the word, explain. No, none of that tedious stuff. the US could nuke Jamaica tommorow, and you would still bring up the same old smokescreen.

whats worse is that, obviously, a large and influential chunk of the US media behaves in the same fashion. Misdirection, thats the name of the game. Don't allow yourself to be drawn into an arguement involving facts or historical data, that way lies defeat.

Its like those people who accuse anyone who is reometly critical of Israel's policies an anti-Semite. But, ofcourse, the Jews have been persecuted throughout history. America, however, has always been on the other side of that stick.

[Ghostavo]

ionia23, yes I was wrong, must have been thinking of something else. And no America has not been responsible for all the bad things in the last 300 years, but you have to admite that since WW2 things have gone completely **** and because of America's decision to act as if it was the "world's police" has done lots of things it should be ashamed of. Other countries might have done something "similar" before, but they act very diferently now (Germany in WW2 for example).

[PeachE]

Saddam came to power because a dictator was necessary to keep the three original Iraqi nations together. if you're looking for someone to blame, a nation that was dumb enough to even try stitching Iraq together as a single nation just for reasons of greed, i suggest you start your search on the other side of the atlantic.

Originally posted by Rictor
Its like those people who accuse anyone who is reometly critical of Israel's policies an anti-Semite. But, ofcourse, the Jews have been persecuted throughout history...

here, i agree with you. our alignment with Israel is getting ****ing ridiculous. personally, i don't feel that Palestine should have ever been chosen as a homeland. and if the US even wants to think about peace in the middle east, we need to seriously consider changing sides.