[Xelion]

Originally posted by Bobboau
yes it is but if you read the outline that JMS gave paramount and watch the pilot for DS9 there are quite a few erry similarities

Well if you have a link or you could send me a copy, maybe this thread would make more sense in its similarities otherwise these are all just coincidences and generalizations!

[Tiara]

ermm... Similarities:

- Both on station: *SHOCK* WHOA! What a miracle! Never though this would happen!

- Prophets and First Ones: Seriously, there is no comparison. The Prophets are the Bajoran 'Gods'. First Ones were never 'Gods'. The closest there is are the Vorlons who impersonated angels. But they did it for a completely different reason and thus no basis for comparison.

- Major war: Come on. Every series has wars in it. This is a stupid comparison as well.

And add about a dozen more senseless Star Trek bashing comparisons from rabid B5ers and you have 'm all. Completely stupid and no real basis to compare it on. Period.

[Kazan]

Tiara: except that the proposal JMS submitted and his pilot for B5 are very similiar

[Knight Templar]

Originally posted by Stunaep


You poor, poor, man.

I am actually surprised how many people haven't seen B5 around here. Especially considering that's it's the next best thing since.... well, anything on TV, really, bar perhaps selected episodes of the original trek. Indeed, people, you have Kazaa, E-mule, and whatnot to work with.

Well, part of it has to do with B5 not being shown here for some reason. Maybe on Sci-Fi, but it ain't on cable.

Coolmon: Who says Voyager is the only ship with a female captain? It could just be the only ship with a stupid one...

[ZylonBane]

Originally posted by Tiara
And add about a dozen more senseless Star Trek bashing comparisons from rabid B5ers and you have 'm all. Completely stupid and no real basis to compare it on. Period.

Tiara, since your tendency to be hardheaded is inversely proportional to your tendency to be right, I'll just let JMS do the talking:

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Category 18,  Topic 22
Message 661       Wed Sep 30, 1992
STRACZYNSKI [Joe]            at 03:42 EDT

      If it were only a matter of set design, you wouldn't
hear a peep from me.  For what I hope will be the last time,
here's how it lays down:

              BABYLON 5                       DEEP SPACE 9
Commander Sinclair                Commander Sisko
Casino                            Casino
Bar                               Bar
Female second in command          Female second in command
Shapechanger in original script   Shapechanger in pilot
                      script
Located near a jump-point (warp)  Located near wormhole
       (warp)
Number-designated space station   Number-designated space
       station
Hookers                           Hookers
Similar prosthetics               Similar prosthetics
Similar sets                      Similar sets
Female 2nd fending off attack     Female 2nd fending off
at end                            attack
Bazaar                            Promenade
Cmdr. haunted by recent war       Cmdr. haunted by recent
      battle
Cmdr. is unmarried                Cmdr. is (now) unmarried
Freeport/port of call             Freeport/port of call
Travelers/diplomats/smugglers  Travelers/diplomats/smugglers

      Those are the highlights.  There's more, but this
point has been belabored far more than is reasonable at this
point.  With one bit of new information...I've heard that
Majel Barrett-Roddenberry has been quoted as saying that B5
has borrowed from DS9...now I can't personally confirm this,
I wasn't there, but if those who sent me private mail
testifying to this want to come forward, they're welcome to
do so (though no onus is attached if they don't).

      Can such things happen by accident?  That's more a
question for others.

     JMS


[Tiara]

Originally posted by ZylonBane

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              BABYLON 5                       DEEP SPACE 9
Commander Sinclair                Commander Sisko[/quote]
Seriously Their first two letter are the same... Lol, people are desperate to find similarities.

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Casino                            Casino
Bar                               Bar[/quote]
Any station with civilions on it has that. Big ****ing deal.

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Female second in command          Female second in command[/quote]
Merely coincidental. Ivanova and Nerys are NOTHING alike.

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Shapechanger in original script   Shapechanger in pilot
                      script[/quote]
Shapeshifter in about a dozen other movies and series. Big ****ing deal. The Shapeshifter in DS9 actually played a major role. in B5 it never did. Again, a desperate comparison.

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Located near a jump-point (warp)  Located near wormhole
       (warp)[/quote]
Wormhole: Natural phenomena; jumps to other side of the galaxy, Jump Gate: Constructed; jumps to hyperspace. Again no real basis for comparison.

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Number-designated space station   Number-designated space
       station[/quote]
Ok, now it's just getting pitifull. Any ****ing navy has number designated ships and bases. It's not like the names even remotely look alike. BABYLON 5 - DEEP SPACE 9... No, it's just another bull**** argument.

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Hookers                           Hookers[/quote]
lol... This is supposed to be a similarity? There are hookers in every damned universe. No big surprise here.

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Similar prosthetics               Similar prosthetics[/quote]
Just Explain.

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Similar sets                      Similar sets[/quote]
Ok, you gotta be kidding me right? They look absolutely NOTHING alike. Ok, perhaps a little bit in the civilian section but that's to be expected in a station.

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Female 2nd fending off attack     Female 2nd fending off
at end                            attack[/quote]
Desperation is just dripping of this attempt to discredit ST. Seriously.

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Bazaar                            Promenade[/quote]
Again; desperation dripping of this attempt.

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Cmdr. haunted by recent war       Cmdr. haunted by recent
      battle[/quote]
Sisko wasn't haunted by the battle he was haunted by the position he was put in by the entire Bajoran people as Emmisary. Again, a stupid point.

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Cmdr. is unmarried                Cmdr. is (now) unmarried[/quote]
Whee, and the desperation continues to drip onto the floor.

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Freeport/port of call             Freeport/port of call[/quote]
Seriously.

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Travelers/diplomats/smugglers  Travelers/diplomats/smugglers[/quote]
You just described 70% of all bases in sci-fi.

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     Those are the highlights.  There's more, but this
point has been belabored far more than is reasonable at this
point.  With one bit of new information...I've heard that
Majel Barrett-Roddenberry has been quoted as saying that B5
has borrowed from DS9...now I can't personally confirm this,
I wasn't there, but if those who sent me private mail
testifying to this want to come forward, they're welcome to
do so (though no onus is attached if they don't).

      Can such things happen by accident?  That's more a
question for others.

     JMS


I highly doubt this actually came from JMS because he just can't be this stupid. All these similarities are utter crap.

[Kazan]

Tiara did you even pay attention to who wrote that?

Do you even know about the brief he submitted to paramount as a Star Trek idea before he made babylon 5?

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Kazan
Tiara did you even pay attention to who wrote that?

Sure I did, but it certainly doesn't sound like him.

Do you even know about the brief he submitted to paramount as a Star Trek idea before he made babylon 5?

Yes I do. But saying B5 and DS9 are really similar is just bull****. Almost everything is different besides the fact that they both are on a station. Almost every aspect of the story is different. So maybe they took notice of the idea JMS submitted (and they should as he's a great author), that doesn't mean they outright copied him to the furthest extend possible. It's a baseless accusation.

The story itself was written by B&B (surprisingly) and had little to no resemblance to B5 at all.

[ZylonBane]

Originally posted by Tiara
Sure I did, but it certainly doesn't sound like him.

Eat crow much?

http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-7434
http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-7427
http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-1304

[Tiara]

Originally posted by ZylonBane

Eat crow much?

http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-7434
http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-7427
http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-1304

Ok, in his own words:

they will be very different shows, in many ways, in
terms of the stories and the characters and the fact that we just
operate in a completely different fictional universe.

As for his second post, that's just bull****. They might look similar but when you look just a little bit better then just skimming over the top of the sets you'll see great differences.

Also, for the prostethics, they copied it from ST. Seriously, their prosthetics were seen in similar fashions in TNG and even TOS for god's sake. Sci-fi make-up was created by Star Trek for ****s sake. If anything they copied it from ST. Another lame argument.

As for the female second in command taking charge of the defense.. *SHOCK* second in command takes charge of the defense. *SHOCK* Seriously. If this is the best similarity there is it's just another crap-a-delic argument like all the others.

The strategic position of DS9 would indeed make it look a bit like B5 in terms of smuglers and merchants but in a VERY different fashion. B5 is an 'open' station as in build to be that. DS9 is an 'open' station as in conquered and falling under Bajoran juristiction and under the protection of the Federation. Which is a huge difference. Any friggin' 'open' station has smuglers and merchants. It's absurd to call that a similarity in the fashion.

JMS is just being paranoid here. My respect for the guy just dropped a few levels. (Though his writing remains awesome )

[Kazan]

JMS is not being paranoid, Tiara you're totally talking out of your ass.

[Tiara]

Ooowww... I'm scared by your awesome argument

Really, if you've got nothing better to say shut up and accept defeat. Else bring better arguments to the table.

[ZylonBane]

JMS says you're wrong.

YOU admit defeat, loon.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by ZylonBane
JMS says you're wrong.

YOU admit defeat, loon.

Ow, so now JMS is god? You guys are just full of awesome argument

Seriously, he just throws around baseless conjecture and I'm supposed to believe it? I'm not as gullable as you, so it seems. He provides 0 pieces of evidence. He doesn't even provide a damned clue as to why I should believe him.

I'm really astounded by the level of ignorance of you and Kazan in this thread. the two persons from which I didn't expect it.

[SadisticSid]

Let's not forget 3rd season of DS9 - Defiant, 3rd season of B5 - Whitestar. Both with exactly the same purpose, covert missions into enemy territory (Dominion space, EA space). The similarities are beyond obvious and anyone who won't see them is deluding themselves.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by SadisticSid
Let's not forget 3rd season of DS9 - Defiant, 3rd season of B5 - Whitestar. Both with exactly the same purpose, covert missions into enemy territory (Dominion space, EA space). The similarities are beyond obvious and anyone who won't see them is deluding themselves.

I'm not saying there aren't ANY similarities. In any and every show there are similarities. But when people are starting to look at hookers, smuglers and merchants for similaities it reeks of desperation.

A few similarities != totally ripped off show (like people here are argueing)

Besides, the Defiant is also different. It's built solely from Federation tech as opposed to uber tech from the Vorlons and Minbari. (Cloak only added later but isn't standard for the ship).

But nonetheless, I admit that this similarity is a tad bit... strong But still not meaning DS9 was ripped from B5. At all.

[karajorma]

Tiara. You're assuming that we're saying that DS9 is a direct copy of B5. I'm certainly not saying that but there are a lot of similarities between the two and no doubt the storyline of DS9 was influenced a lot by the JMS series proposal.

You're probably going to tell me next that Antz and A Bugs Life coming out at the same time was just a coincidence and that the two have nothing in common apart from being animated stories about insects.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by karajorma
Tiara. You're assuming that we're saying that DS9 is a direct copy of B5. I'm certainly not saying that but there are a lot of similarities between the two and no doubt the storyline of DS9 was influenced a lot by the JMS series proposal.

I even admitted that the overall premise would probably have been influenced by JMS. I'm not denying that. But people here make it seem like DS9 is a total rip off while the entire story, characters, enviroment, etc, etc, etc is TOTALLY and UTTERLY different.

[Ghostavo]

No, that's not what they are saying... it has a good story, characters, enviroment... it is worth watching by all means... but that doesn't change the fact that it resembles B5.

[karajorma]

Does anyone have the JMS proposal? If it mentions a character like Sisko we can put this one to bed right now.